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Foreclosure of non- owner occupied 3-family house

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  • Foreclosure of non- owner occupied 3-family house

    Hi Everybody,

    This is my first post, although I have been lurking and reading a ton of posts concerning Chapter 7 and Foreclosure. My chapter 7 was discharged on 9-15-2010. I did not reaffirm the house i live in, nor the three family rental property. The mortgage payments were all current at the time of discharge.

    The rental properrty was underwater and I had about 45k in equity on my own residence. I live in CT. The property taxes and insurance were paid separately from the mortgage on both places. I Fell behind on the property taxes on rental property, received a letter from AHMSI ,Dec 2010, informing me that they are going to pay the back taxes for rental property. Sounded good to me! still current on mortgage in Dec 2010. Received another letter about two weeks later from AHMSI with the new payment plan( back taxes, plus forward taxes plus mortgage) which doubled my original payment from to $1700 per month. Paid January2011 stopped paying altogether in Feb 2011.

    Tried , and tried and tried(did I say i tried) to work something out with AHMSI but it became very surreal over time. Everytime I would talk to them, they would send me another HAMP application. I kept explaining that I wasnt owner occupied so I didn't qualify. They kept sending them anyway. What about deed-in lieu, i inquired? They said "sure" just list it with a realtor for 6months first. I didnt .

    So I get the foreclosure letter delivered on 8-15-2011 and I still have the rental property, or should I say "non-rental property"!! I made the mistake of telling the guy on the first floor that the house was in foreclosure. The other apartments got wind of it and stopped paying anything. I just got rid of the last tenant on the third floor today, thank GOD! This guy even had the electric changed into my name after he called the power company and it was discovered that a hall light was on his meter. Weird.

    But any way, I took out a liability policy for the place, in case of whatever. AHMSI bought some dwelling ins, which i would imagine gets rolled into a big ball along with the taxes they paid and are paying.

    Question: The sewer taxes are due and I have been paying them, what happens if I dont pay the sewer tax? Am I liable for any of these taxes or insurance that the mortgage co paid after discharge? Or ... what would you do?.

    Last edited by AngelinaCat; 07-23-2012, 09:14 AM. Reason: Make post easier to read.

  • #2
    If it's a tax, then you are liable if the tax doesn't "run with the land". Is the sewer tax part of your property taxes, or is the sewer tax a "separate" bill? If it's separate, then it may not "run with the land", and you may be liable for it.

    I don't know what it's like in Connecticut with respect to this "tax" or if it's a tax that is attached to the property.

    You are NOT responsible for the force-place insurance that was purchased by the lender because you discharged the underlying mortgage (promissory note) debt.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


    • #3
      Thanks justbroke,
      The sewer tax is a separate bill from the property tax bill. So is the water bill.
      I put a lock on the door over there and am starting to shut down the place.
      During the negotiations/runaround with AHMSI ( now called Homeward) I did ask about refinancing the mortgage through them but they said I had to at least wait the 2 - year period from BK discharge. This will be 9-15-2012. I wonder if the foreclosure is stalled because of my inquiry and if they are waiting to throw out a worm after the two year limbo period, before they proceed again with actual Foreclosure? Just thinking outloud as to why they are dragging their feet with foreclosure, when they are paying taxes and insurance? They must know what they are doing? Do they?... Weird!
      Thanks again JB


      • #4
        No one seems to really pinpoint why a lender won't foreclose, but we can speculate! Some may be waiting for the market to improve. Some may have been waiting due to the litigation over "robo-signing" and bad foreclosure paperwork over the last few years. There is nothing you can do to compel them to foreclose. They may also be avoiding any "fees" to maintain the property, if you are occupying it!

        I don't think your refinance inquiry has anything to do with the lack of foreclosure!
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


        • #5
          Generally, water/sewer are given "super priority" liens (kind of like HOA's).

          So long as the house is in your name, they can pursue you personally. But ultimately, it does (in a sense) run with the land, so the mortgage lender will eventually need to satisfy the sewer bill when it forecloses.


          • #6
            Hi Everybody,
            Well now it seems somebody put their own locks on the property. Still havent finalized the foreclosure, I am still owner of record. Is this legal for the bank to do?
            Thanks Greg


            • #7
              Hi Greg,

              I dont think that is legal. But i am not an attorney and i am not in CT so the laws may be different here. Also because it isnt homesteaded... It may be time to call the attorney - and kick out the nonpaying tenant if you can fill it and dont have to pay the mtg company your rents - if you do, i wouldnt bother.


              • #8
                Actually, it IS legal (for the bank to secure the property) so long as the banks do a reasonable inspection, or have other evidence, that the property is vacant. Generally, the language allowing the bank to do so will be in the Deed of Trust or Security Instrument.


                • #9
                  Yes. HHM you are right. I called the mortgage servicer(Homeward) and inquired about the lock change. I told them that I am locked out and the gal on the phone said that since my bankruptcy, I am not responsible for the house. They already bought insurance and have been paying the property taxes. I asked her if she could send me something in writing , stating that I am no longer responsible for the property. She told me to contact the "Resolution Department", so I sent them a fax requesting a letter. That was Friday the 9th. I also asked about the "Foreclosure" but she didn't have any dates yet, but seemed to think it would be soon.


                  • #10
                    Hi All, Still havent had the foreclosure finalised yet.(8-15-2011 foreclosure notice filed) My mortgage servicer, Homeward, seems to have washed their hands of my loan and now OCWEN is the new servicer. Anybody have any dealings with OCWEN?
                    Thanks Greg


                    • #11
                      Hi, I do not have info for them but when BOA transferred my loan servicing to new servicer the new servicer stopped the foreclosure proceedings initiated by BOA originally. They have been trying to get us to do a modification since then. We do not want to do mod, we have told them we are not doing mod but they continue to sit on it. We want them to foreclose to get the property out of our name (rental property surrendered in chp 7 in Dec. 2011) but they just sit on it. It is frustrating and there does not seem to be any way to speed thing up. We asked about DIL as well and they just keep sending us modification paperwork. Good Luck!


                      • #12
                        Hello all. Latest news on foreclosure of the three family house that they began forclosure on8/11. After a few different filings and rulings , the latest is notice of dismissal on 8/29/14. My lawyer says they have four months to reopen or refine which would be dec 29. My question is what happens if the foreclisure case really becomes dismissed on dec 29? Can I be foreclosed on again or is it double jespordy or something? What about the lien? Thdnks


                        • #13
                          I do not know what you mean by double jeopardy, but I think you mean whether some statute of limitations (SOL) has run or that they can't file for the same default. Florida is starting to settle this but even in my State of Florida, we still have some different rulings on this.

                          As for the second bite of the same apple, it would depends if they were dismissed with prejudice. If they were dismissed with prejudice, they couldn't file for that specific default. At least in Florida, we have had some recent cases which the appeals courts have been, now, consistently ruling that a dismissal with prejudice does not prevent the mortgagor (lender) from filing another foreclosure action based on a subsequent default. Think about it, you fail to pay May 2014. They file their case based on a default in May 2014. They are denied a judgment and the case is dismissed with prejudice. They can technically proceed with a new "notice of default" based on June 2014 -- if you failed to pay June 2014. At least Florida now believes that this is the law here. As I have always said... they will eventually line their ducks up, get their paperwork straight, and win.

                          For the reasons set out below we approve the decision in Singleton and hold that a dismissal with prejudice in a mortgage foreclosure action does not necessarily bar a subsequent foreclosure action on the same mortgage.

                          The Fourth District has consistently taken the position that res judicata does not prevent mortgagees from foreclosing on a mortgage in successive foreclosure cases when the alleged dates of default are different.

                          We agree with the position of the Fourth District that when a second and separate action for foreclosure is sought for a default that involves a separate period of default from the one alleged in the first action, the case is not necessarily barred by res judicata.

                          While it is true that a foreclosure action and an acceleration of the balance due based upon the same default may bar a subsequent action on that default, an acceleration and foreclosure predicated upon subsequent and different defaults present a separate and distinct issue.

                          Your lien would remain. You could try a quiet-title action, but that strategy -- quiet title -- is what really pushed the Singleton case in Florida.
                          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


                          • #14
                            Thanks for the info JB ! They definitely are much smarter than I am! Just wish they foreclose already and get me off the title. What is the quiet title action ?


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by greggy View Post
                              Thanks for the info JB ! They definitely are much smarter than I am! Just wish they foreclose already and get me off the title. What is the quiet title action ?
                              Quiet title is a case where you ask a court to remove a lien from the title. This is typically done where you are able to prove that the lien is somehow void. This could be due to a statute of limitations (SOL) or some other reason why the lien should be void.
                              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


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