To Pay or Not to Pay HOA Fees

[tobee43]

sometimes life is the best lesson. i also stand on the position that a subordinate liens show up when least expected. like 6 years after a closed bk.



best of luck to the OP.

[nioka]

Tonight I am watching youtube videos about foreclosure. Although they are in many different states it seems that with many of the HOA foreclosures the HOA is foreclosing and evicting in a short amount of time and then renting the property. The HOA continues to rent the property until the bank finally forecloses. Not one of those videos mentions anything about the HOA taking possession of the title before evicting.

I would like the HOA to take possession and release me. On the other hand I do not want to be evicted and find myself still owing years of HOA fees. I realize they cannot do anything to my protected income but it would prevent my rebuilding my credit.

Can an HOA foreclose without taking possession and then evict the homeowner/tenant?

[tobee43]

yes, however usually once the HOA begins the process the bank most times steps in and if not and the HOA does foreclose the bank has the first lien

tennessee is a non-judicial foreclosure state. i have seen and heard of some non-judcial state foreclose as early as 90 after the stay is lifted.

[bcohen]

yes, however usually once the HOA begins the process the bank most times steps in and if not and the HOA does foreclose the bank has the first lien

tennessee is a non-judicial foreclosure state. i have seen and heard of some non-judcial state foreclose as early as 90 after the stay is lifted.

When a HOA places a lien on the property--which in many states requires a successful lawsuit first--the HOA lien is subordinate to the mortgage lien(s). Thus, if a HOA chooses to foreclose its judgment lien, it can either take the place of the homeowner (and rent the property out) or possibly sell the property subject to the mortgage lien (though this is not very likely). A HOA cannot take possession and seek to remove the homeowner from the premises unless the HOA has taken over as the new owner, thus removing the homeowner from the deed. They cannot keep the homeowner on the deed, pocket the proceeds from renting out the property, and expect you to pay dues/fees going forward.

In any case, once the HOA forecloses, they still have to give you reasonable time to move, and would probably grant a month or two to move out rather than dealing with the expense of trying to evict, plus the chance that a homeowner leaving under bad terms is likely to trash the place, thus making it impossible to rent out.

[tobee43]

bcohen, yes, that is true in many states. the only reason i file the liens against the house is to move the bank NOT the people. i can take possession in this state and rent the property. i do it for the clients i work for all the time. we go after the sale of the house. i promise you.

you misunderstand my position. those people still living in their homes i help protect although i represent the HOA's. i work with them, in some cases even helped with bank mods and once even paid one familiy's (or talk that HOA into it), mortgage payment. i wait until after the foreclosure and up the fees until we can begin to foreclose. it just pushes the banks places the liens and we force the sales. this method has helped dying HOA's while NOT hurting the people that either filed bk or leave. most of the cases i work the people have walked. i do not pursue them, although that is the way it was, the HOAs went directly after the people. i just tried to show them there is more money to be gained from hitting the banks as opposed to those poor people that already lost their homes. all i can say it's working for them, and i'm very (too) busy.

i need to add the motive: the banks cannot clear title unless i file those liens for my clients. so before the BANKS can resell the foreclosures they need to have clear title. in many cases i found one county letting these huge property management companies, who are now buying up half of florida, buying on the courthouse steps, without clear title. the counties are just handing over the deeds. well, i'm going to begin to change many of the bi-laws to suggest those involved will also be liable.

without clear title these counties let the properties go these big companies don't care about the liens until i can start large assessments on them. but, they should have never been able to get those properties in the first place without clear title.

[nioka]

I think you folks should take a look at this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZm-W2ba-90

The question that comes to my mind is if this is illegal then why isn't there criminal charges?

[tobee43]

well, this is a double edge sword. (excellent find nioka). first things first.

the position of the HOA is this, the owners are NOT paying their mortgages nor their HOA dues, then vacating owe the HOA thousands, not paying on their homes. then renting them out and pocketing the money.

the position of home owner is i still own this home, the deed is in my name and i can do what i choose to do with MY property. until the bank possesses the property, removes my name from the deed and there has been a title and deed recorded transfer, it is mine to do as i choose.

the video indicates that the HOA position is now being challenged in court. until a decision has been made we will not see which position will be supported by law. so far, here in florida, the HOA's have been so powerful, it's terrible. it's been difficult to attempt to change their mind set and go after the banks as opposed to people. however, in this case this lady is NOT paying her bank, nor her HOA, but just putting the money in her pocket. which personally i feel should be fine until the bank takes possession. (although, i would NEVER do it, our old house we listed and vacated is still vacant after over 5 years, yet i would never think about renting the property for financial gain without paying the creditor), i guess we will have to see what happens as a result of the suit, it will, indeed effect many HOA's in florida.

also i made a REALLY big oooooooooppppppppps in my post above. we take possession AFTER the owners vacate their premises, then we begin the assessments and charges, fees, etc. but we bill the BANK. get the lien in prior to the foreclosing. record it immediately. the banks have helped to destroy the communities by not taking care of the properties. our home values fall. this way once we file these liens if the banks don't move then the money piles up and the HOA's position is now one that may be well into the thousands. that's when we push to foreclose. the banks take years, so the HOA's take possession and then rent the properties.

[tobee43]

i just re viewed that video again, this lady says she's NOT been foreclosed on. but it doesn't say if she is in default. i now think this is a different issue and we aren't hearing the entire story here.

if this lady is up to date with her mortgage, and this issue is just the HOA fine and is the ONLY issue, i think the HOA is dead wrong here! especially, in light of the fact she was willing and tired to pay the fine! that is simply crazy and i think is almost criminal!

[nioka]

I am purely an amateur here. However I have been watching a lot of bankruptcy video especially involving HOA's.

On one video featuring an interview with an HOA attorney she mentioned that a HOA can foreclose for delinquent dues. The case they were talking about featured and HOA that sued based on a delinquent fine and could not foreclose or place a lien.

In my case the HOA issued an unjust fine of $1200. I expected to get a bill for the HOA dues of $100. Instead I got an invoice for $1300. I was told I could not pay dues separately and even though I had appealed the fine I needed to pay the entire invoice to keep my account up to date.

Against the advice of many here I had planned to pay the HOA dues and wait for the bank to foreclose. I accepted the fact that a bank foreclosure would take some time, but paying the HOA fee alone is cheap rent. Due to the action of the HOA I am forced not to pay the HOA fees and list them on my BK list. All attorneys I talked to said HOA fees and fines will be discharged. Naturally once I get my discharge I will resume paying the HOA fees but without the past due amount and the fine.

It seems to me that after watching many videos on the subject that in many cases the HOA involved are actually shooting themselves in the foot or cutting off their noses to spite their face. Investigating my area the reason where I am may be to seize homes rather than collect HOA fees.

[AngelinaCat]

'Hub and I are currently watching the outcome of Springleaf Financial aka American General Finance suit against 'Hub's ex-wife about her double-wide mobile home, that she discharged in BK....

It is interesting to watch how all of this krapp works out...

[nioka]

I am a newbie and if I am wrong please correct me.

In Tennessee there is a six month reach back law for repaying delinquent HOA fees when a primary mortgage holder forecloses. From the articles I have read HOA's are more likely to try to foreclose in an effort to collect the total amount they are due especially when that figure exceeds the six months reach back limitation.

I think this may be the motivation for HOA's in Tennessee to have aggressive collection methods.

This quote is referring to TN.

"State law varies on foreclosures by HOAs, and balancing foreclosure rights, say when a lender and an HOA foreclose on a property. One reason for an HOA's quick action to collect dues is that if a lender forecloses, there can be limits on collecting back dues.

State law may give an HOA other collection options, such as evicting you from your property and renting it until HOA and related fees are recovered."

Needless to say this could leave an unsuspecting HO in a very bad position. I am not sure about this but it would seem that a HOA foreclosure and evictions on the HO resulting in the property being rented would be to the primary mortgage holders advantage. Of course the primary lien holder would need to sue for possession from he HOA but in the meantime the HOA fees and other costs would be paid.

If this is true then it appears that a HO would do better to keep the HOA fees current and wait out the mortgage company. This is the exact opposite of what most HO do. Their mind set is to pay the mortgage when in trouble and skip the HOA fees. It may be time for HO's to rethink their priorities.