I know this is wrong but has anyone else...?

[laurannm]

You said out of habit you use the card, I was asking did you have the actual amount in cash on you?

If it were me, I would pay the amount back so they can't accuse me of doing anything wrong.

Yep, we have the cash. It was that Mobil Speedpass that we have used for years, and I had other stuff going on and without thinking used the card.

I will go ahead and pay that amount back

[Bell30656]

After reviewing all my forms, my lawyer advised me to wait 90 days before filing due to a couple of charges but since I had some cash on hand (anticipating rent and deposit on a house) he suggested that maybe my daughter needed some new school clothing or my car could use new tires.

[laurannm]

What was the total of those charges?

[ltrain823]

Wow, such great insight from everyone! I love this forum so much. I cant begin to tell you how much of a relief I get while reading through this forum. Better than any book, consult., etc.

I think I'm gonna go and get a couple suits to get me going...I have no choice. I'm already starting to get grief from uppermanagement about my attire. I am going to have to file pretty soon though and I hope this doesnt cause any setbacks.

[rfassett]

Think "alternatives". That is the concept of "thinking outside the box". How can you make this work and live with your decision? You have been given a couple of good ideas that I will reiterate. Have you been inside a Goodwill or Salvation Army store lately? It is absolutely amazing what you can find there and if not "dirt cheap", it certainly is far, far below the normal retail "sale" value. And they will usually only stock things that are in good condition. Another alternative is second hand stores. Again, amazing what you can find in these places. They are clean and in good shape.

We should ALL give this some thought. Why does it have to be brand new clothing that we buy? Why not take advantage of this opportunity and help the Goodwill, Salvation Army, or local "helping hands" place? Let's not think that we are above that. No doubt that type thinking is partially what got us into financial trouble to begin with.

[butterflywings]

I risked blowing up a balance transfer of $10,000 from one cc to the next and just gambling it all with in several days. I had only made one below minimum payment on the $10,000. Than I file BK just above water (the 90 days), no objections no cry of fraud. But it was a risk and I was prepared for the consequences.

Just my 2 cents, Catchmeifyoucan

That is because you filed Chapter 13 where the creditors "knew" they were being paid back, so they didn't object naturally, and then at the last minute you switched to a Chapter 7. You know the only reason you got a way with what you did on the cash advance is because your case fell between the cracks of the different chapters. Even that lawyer on his BK blog told you the same thing when you asked him, yet you keep posting this story on here misleading everyone, because you aren't letting these people know the actual facts of how you got away with it.

[Cali]

I've never shopped at Goodwill or Salvation Army, but I have donated loads of nice things there.

And because you file BK doesn't mean you can't buy new things. You can find some nice things on sale at different stores.

Think "alternatives". That is the concept of "thinking outside the box". How can you make this work and live with your decision? You have been given a couple of good ideas that I will reiterate. Have you been inside a Goodwill or Salvation Army store lately? It is absolutely amazing what you can find there and if not "dirt cheap", it certainly is far, far below the normal retail "sale" value. And they will usually only stock things that are in good condition. Another alternative is second hand stores. Again, amazing what you can find in these places. They are clean and in good shape.

We should ALL give this some thought. Why does it have to be brand new clothing that we buy? Why not take advantage of this opportunity and help the Goodwill, Salvation Army, or local "helping hands" place? Let's not think that we are above that. No doubt that type thinking is partially what got us into financial trouble to begin with.

[bmcmull]

This one is easy, dont include the card in the plan. Pay it outside the plan like we did our Leased vehicle. It only becomes fraud if you intentionally knock it up and attempt to write it down. Dont say a thing about it. Also a little better advise would be to tell you to go somewhere like Nordstram "The Rack store" older lines that they can not sell in the big stores marked down 70%-80%. THe thing about Express is it is probably going to be out dated quickly and not very good to start with, the thing to do with buisness close is pick things that never grow old and you match them up with other things.

[Minnymouth]

A WARNING TO NEWBIES......................
Please do not tell others "not to list something" on their income/expense reports for their attorneys. ALL CREDITORS you owe must be listed when you file bankruptcy.

Should you use credit cards in excess right before you file the Trustee may look closely at this as well as the credit card companies can object to discharge. You take that "chance" when you continue to use the cards and the attorney tells you not too. Or you do large cash advances and transfers of anything right before you file bankrutpcy.

If you do use the credit card to purchase clothes for work then be prepared to pay the balance if the creditor objects to the purchases. If it is a small amount they probably won't even object. Most don't.

After you file, and you run up charges on a card, then it becomes "deliberate fraud", because they know then you have no intention of paying this back.

Deliberately commiting fraud is a "moral issue" and "legal issue" that each of us has to deal with separately. If you are caught you are subject to having your case dismissed, if not, then you have to live with the thought that you received your "fresh start" trying to beat the system that's in place to help you get the fresh start in life.

We are not on this forum to tell others "how to beat the system", how to commit "fraud" and not get caught, nor how to deceive their attorney. I'm sure some of us are guilty of all three for one reason or another.

Everything you do in life has consequences, be prepared to live with them.....

[rfassett]

Cali, do not misunderstand me. I did not mean to imply that folks who file bk should not buy new clothes thereafter. I do, however, believe that there are alternatives that we should explore, not necessarily for the whole wardrobe, but at least some things. Why pay full retail, or even sale retail on everything when there are discounted alternatives? Think of all of the other ways that you could spend that saved money.

[krielly]

I agree. Since being in a 13, I've definitely become more of a penny pincher

I used to have the attitude...."whats a couple of bucks here and there". Well, I've discovered that couple of bucks here and there definitely can add up. I now put that money saved aside and am starting to build an emergency fund.

K

[sisterfunkhaus]

Could you reaffirm it and pay it back instead of including it?? Maybe you could find a way to pay it back before filing. If it is under $500, I don't see an issue if you can repay it.

As far as committing the fraud, I don't know how it would possibly be proven that you intended to commit fraud. I am thinking at the worst, you might have to pay it back. I also feel like if it is need for you and you absolutely cannot find the funds elsewhere, then maybe you should do it and just buy the bare minimum. But if it were me, I'd be eating beans and rice and picking up a few things at Target and Wal-Mart to wear. You could get a pair of black slacks, tan or brown slacks, two solid dress shirts and two ties. You could mix and match the outfits and have four. You could wash them every two days and just add a new pair of pants or shirt as you can afford it. No one will notice that you wear the same clothes. You are a guy, trust me. All guy dress clothes look the same. Also, I noticed that Goodwill had a CRAZY number of nice white dress shirts and slacks. No good ties though. I just think that there are other options if you really think about it. When we are used to using cards to pay, we often get spoiled to the best even thought we really can't afford it. Right now is as good of a time as any to start living within your means and buying what you can afford.

[FLBK7]

I've never shopped at Goodwill or Salvation Army, but I have donated loads of nice things there.

I have a gorgeous dark brown, 100% soft leather, Fendi Zucca original big bag that everyone compliments me on. I bought it at a Goodwill Superstore just before Christmas, for $28.00. It was in basically new condition when I bought it, and still is.

You'd be surprised at the true gems you find at Goodwill sometimes.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Ltrain, I have to say, I'm with CindyLynn on this one.

But in the end, if you do make the charges, consider reaffirming this one debt. That keeps it from being fraud from both a legal-bk and moral standpoint. If you state your intention to repay this debt in your filing (Form 8) and then you do so, there is absolutely no issue with it. Like she said, you have to do what you have to do to survive.

I agree on trying the thrift store/Goodwill thing, but if you're not a standard size your options there diminish drastically. But if you've never been in one, or it's been a while, definitely go -- you'd be amazed at the stuff you can get on the cheap.

And NO, I don't think you're a bad person. I wish you every success in your new job!!!

[BKSorrow]

To my knowledge when you file BK they look back 90 days into your transactions. CC purchases for life necessities (food, clothing, shelter) are included in your filings but luxuries may not be covered. A good example my lawyer gave was a cup of coffee at McDonalds may fall into the "food" category whereas a cup of coffee at Starbucks may be disputed. I think Express is moderately priced and also a necessity for work. What's the worse that could happen.