Zombie parking fine from 2003

[Pizza]

Just got a letter today from Linebarger & Associates, acting on behalf of the city, over a parking ticket from 2003.

Does the SOL run out on these like any other creditor, or is this different because it is a fine?

Also, there is a part at the bottom that tells me if I have filed bankruptcy that I can indicate it on the form and return it. I thought that bankruptcy does not release a debtor of fines. This was also not included in my petition. If I answer yes and return the form, does my bankruptcy do anything in this respect?

[tobee43]

i found this...i put the link on the bottom so you can read the entire thing. you are a lucky one, i remember while in college my dh who later in his life became state police was picked up and thrown into jail overnight for a parking ticket in san fran....nice it's NOT criminal but civil in texas. good luck with this Pizza, by the way do they have good Pizza in texas?? ( that's a real question LOL i need to know i might have to travel to forney on business and stay for a bit).

Statute of Limitations on Traffic Tickets and Other Class "C" Misdemeanors in Texas

The discussion here relates to those Texas traffic violations that are classified as Class "C" misdemeanors, and does not include red light camera tickets which, in Texas, are civil rather than criminal matters.

The statute of limitations on traffic ticket violations and other Class "C" misdemeanors, in Texas, is two years. Be aware that this does not mean that traffic ticket violations and other Class"C" misdemeanors that are two years or older cannot be prosecuted. What it does mean is that once a violation is two years old, if a complaint has never been filed, then it is barred, and cannot be prosecuted. The complaint is not the citation issued by the officer. The complaint is a formal sworn document which meets the requirements of Chapter 45, Texas Code of Criminal Procedure.

On September 1, 2009, Texas codified it's then existing two year period of limitation on traffic ticket violations and other Class "C" misdemeanors, into the "statute of limitations".

The 2009 amendments to T.C.C.P. 27.14 and T.C.C.P. 12.02, raise two important questions regarding the status of the period of limitation on Class C misdemeanors prior to the amendments. First, whether there was any limitation at all? Second, if so, what tolled the running of the period of limitation?

you should read on...


http://wwwtrafficticket.blogspot.com...n-traffic.html

[LadyInTheRed]

Section 523 covers what debts are not dischargeable: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/523 523(a)(7) may apply, but the language is confusing. If they say to indicate on the form if you filed BK, maybe they think it is dischargeable. Either that or they don't want to risk violating an automatic stay. If you've filed, I'd note that on the form and return it.

If you receive a discharge in a no-asset Chap 7 case, a dischargeable debt is dischargeable even if you didn't list it. Pizza, I don't remember if you are in BK or discharged. If your case is still open, it might be a good idea to amend the petition to include the debt.

[tobee43]

it is confusing lady! especially, in light of the fact that each state varies, now does this mean state law would apply or if you went bk can or will it be affected by the fed bk codes?

one would likely think state law would trump federal bk laws in this case. also, if it's viewed as a civil matter as opposed to criminal. in texas the texas statutes of limitation:

The Texas Civil Practice & Remedies Code provides a 4-year limitations period for types of debt. The SoL begins after the day the cause of action accrues, (Section 16.004 (a) (3)).

now, whether this type of debt qualifies under the code or not is one of the real questions here.

[LadyInTheRed]

it is confusing lady! especially, in light of the fact that each state varies, now does this mean state law would apply or if you went bk can or will it be affected by the fed bk codes?

one would likely think state law would trump federal bk laws in this case. also, if it's viewed as a civil matter as opposed to criminal. in texas the texas statutes of limitation:

The Texas Civil Practice & Remedies Code provides a 4-year limitations period for types of debt. The SoL begins after the day the cause of action accrues, (Section 16.004 (a) (3)).

now, whether this type of debt qualifies under the code or not is one of the real questions here.

I wasn't focusing on the statute of limitaitons question. The statute of limitations is state law. Whether or not it is dischargeable depends entirely on the bankruptcy code.

The definition of what is civil or criminal might vary by state for some violations. But, I'd be really surprised if a parking violation is criminal in any state. I can tell you it isn't in California. Your DH must have not paid the parking ticket, didn't appear to contest it which resulted in a bench warrant. It's the failure to deal with a parking ticket that can get you arrested, not the parking ticket itself.

[tobee43]

yes, you're right, there was a bench warrant in those days he sailed merchant ships 1/2 year and attended college the other half. one of his roommates keep parking on the street in san fran where they lived and it was one of those no parking after a certain hour, one would or was suppose to move their car, or so we found out. we didn't even know he had the tickets, so your right there. we are lucky the arrest didn't keep him out of the state police. arrested for parking tickets, paid or not paid, if arrested it's on your record when they do a criminal background check whereas a debt is not, it may then go on your credit record, but not your criminal record. why would a civil matter turn into a bench warrant? if it were truly a civil matter it would have just been turned over to an atty to try and collect the debt one would summarize as opposed to having be cuffed and arrested. by the way in his case it was like less than $150 but in those days that was a good chunk of change. funny he turned out cuffing and arresting more than likely over 2k people during his career and always was gentle about it LOL!! he never forgot the time it happened to him.

so if you don't pay your parking tickets in that time in san fran it must have become criminal to have a bench warrant issued. after all they don't issue bench warrants if you didn't pay your macy's account. LOL!! so, maybe not anymore, but bench warrants are not issued for not paying on a civil matter. what am i missing?

i'm just saying if the debt is moot due to the SOL, it shouldn't be considered a debt in any court of law? i'm thinking if you didn't list a debt because it was SOL when you filed and 5 years later you get a letter to collect on the debt that's a bit crazy.

it also appears per texas law it's consider civil as opposed to criminal, otherwise it would have turned into a bench warrant.

[tobee43]

my dh is chiming in here and saying...if you contest a ticket you go in front of a judge in court and a bench warrant is an arrestable offense. in this case it may have been for non payment of a parking ticket, but if any act can result in an arrest it is considered criminal. he also wanted to add he never arrested anyone for outstanding parking tickets LOL!!!

[LadyInTheRed]

my dh is chiming in here and saying...if you contest a ticket you go in front of a judge in court and a bench warrant is an arrestable offense. in this case it may have been for non payment of a parking ticket, but if any act can result in an arrest it is considered criminal.

Exactly. If you are summoned to appear (or agree to appear by filing a contest to a ticket) and don't appear, the judge issues a bench warrant for your arrest. The failure to appear is a separate offense from the original parking ticket. The parking violation is still just an infraction.

A similar distinction arises when somebody says you can get thrown in jail for not paying your debt. What really happens is that the creditor gets a judgement and the debtor is ordered to appear for a debtor's exam. If they debtor doesn't appear, a bench warrant is issued. If they get pulled over and an officer runs their license and the warrant comes up, they may get arrested. But it's because they violated a court order, which is a criminal offense, not because they failed to pay a debt, which is a civil offense.

Sounds like your DH was a good cop by not bothering arresting somebody whose only real crime is ignoring something they should have take care of. Keeping an eye out for the real bad guys!

[tobee43]

i have to agree with you and i can say now, he was undercover most of his career and the last 10 years white collar crime. i know he turned a cheek many times. i will never forget the story of one of his arrests, he let the guy go after he went after my husband with double bladed axe, his partner had to draw his gun and hold it to the guys head and tell him to drop it. my husband let him go!!!!!!! when i asked why in the world would have done that. he said once the guy sobered up he was a father of 6 working 3 jobs and just had bit too much to drink if he arrested him he would lose his main job and my husband said he couldn't live with that; what??? i'm thinking OM this guy could have swung that axe right into his head. thank Heavens he's the exact opposite of me, calm, always rational, LOL!

lady, your example is perfect. and while it's true that one cannot got to jail for debt, these situation do arise, (child support is an excellent example). although, personally i do think it criminal when someone fails to support their children.

[Pizza]

Here, the only penalty for not paying is that they can put the boot on your car if they catch you parked again. Not paying the parking ticket never, ever becomes criminal.

I sold the car to my dad several years ago and it was smashed to bits by a drunk driver, so that would not be a concern.

I was surprised that A) they would come after a ticket from nearly 10 years ago, and B) instead of the city, it is an attorney's office reading 'This is an attempt to collect a debt....'. Since I didn't list this on my petition (i'm in the middle of the BK), it may go on my credit report. It was a ticket for parking within so many feet of a fire hydrant ($150). I sent the letter back with my case number.

[AngelinaCat]

Was it a Cease and Desist letter? I hope so. From everything I have read, it sounds like the debt was sold to a junk debt buyer and here is their *pond scum attorney* with the threatening letter.

Since you are in the midst of a BK right now, take this letter first thing in the morning to your attorney, and let him/her deal with it. This is what you paid them for.

Let us know how it turns out, please.

[murph996]

Linebarger is the agency that my State uses for collections of taxes. (I posted about that ordeal in a thread I started a few weeks back). They didn't pull the offset from my Federal refund after I filed CH13. They contacted me a few times after I filed (and after the State put in their claim). I finally got the right person at the State to square things away after Linebarger still tried to get me to go through hoops. My suspicion is that they were trying to delay me getting my refund so they'd get credit for collecting.

Regardless- If they are collecting, then your State sold them that debt. It wouldn't shock me if they put in for an offset of your taxes for a debt owed to the City/State.

[tobee43]

Here, the only penalty for not paying is that they can put the boot on your car if they catch you parked again. Not paying the parking ticket never, ever becomes criminal.

I sold the car to my dad several years ago and it was smashed to bits by a drunk driver, so that would not be a concern.

I was surprised that A) they would come after a ticket from nearly 10 years ago, and B) instead of the city, it is an attorney's office reading 'This is an attempt to collect a debt....'. Since I didn't list this on my petition (i'm in the middle of the BK), it may go on my credit report. It was a ticket for parking within so many feet of a fire hydrant ($150). I sent the letter back with my case number.

you are lucky then! while pointed out it's not criminal but when not paid they turn into bench warrants in many places, you apparently, don't have that problem.

hopefully sending them a copy of your docket number should stop them. after all it's nearly 10 years ago! ridiculous!

[AngelinaCat]

hopefully sending them a copy of your docket number should stop them. after all it's nearly 10 years ago! ridiculous!

I had someone call me during Sunday dinner one time attempting to collect a debt that this caller said that my aunt owed. It involved grass cutting fees that supposedly my aunt owed the neighboring town for a lot that she at one time owned.

At the time of this phone call, not only had this lot been long before sold, BUT my aunt had been DEAD for four years! That woman on the phone got a thorough toung-lashing from Yours Truly...

[tobee43]

I had someone call me during Sunday dinner one time attempting to collect a debt that this caller said that my aunt owed. It involved grass cutting fees that supposedly my aunt owed the neighboring town for a lot that she at one time owned.

At the time of this phone call, not only had this lot been long before sold, BUT my aunt had been dead for four years! That woman on the phone got a thorough tong-lashing from Yours Truly...

crazy!!

i know i got a bill from for my mom from sprint, (whom she has never done business with), for over 8k for a cell phone!! it came from at town she never lived in, yet they had her home address and sent the atty's letter there. none of it made sense. in calif., i took it to the local police dept for fraud. filed a report, we'll see what happens.