Health Insurance Discussion

[JRScott]

Maybe if we were not paying for the defense of the rest of the free world it would help? Our military strength is not just for our nation alone. Perhaps it is time other nations chip in on a stronger military if they want to use it? That would help some. Rolling back the tax cuts from Bush would help, I can afford to give up my 30.00 savings. And if we have healthcare thru a single payer like medicare, I would be willing to pay for it, why not... I pay now and still have to pay at the hospital door big bucks. The problem is greed, and it is way beyond the little guy making 500,000.00 per year... this is real greed.

The government is doing a better job with highways, library's, bridges, healthcare, pensions and ss than the corporate brains in America are doing for their own employees unless your one of the chosen few at the top. Big corporate America is what just took us down due to their greed. And they want to blame it on goverment? Really??? It was governments fault for de-regulating them and letting them be so crooked? Shouldn't they simply be honest to begin with so we don't have to pay for all the jails, and attorney's to protect the consumers? If they are doing just a bang up job in the private sector how come so many are being sued over fraud and corrpution? Without government you have no rules, no laws and I can stop by and steal all your posessions when your to old to frend for yourself.

Maybe people are like the guy I met in GA who is against all the hand outs, except for the one that was giving him a break for his sick child? People like all the things that help them, but feel like everyone else should stand on their own?

The Federal Governments pension plans are just as unfunded as most of corporate Americas.

It was not the greed of big corporations that led us down this path alone, it was the greed of every American who has not lived within his means these past 20 years.

It is far time we pulled out of many nations of the world. We simply cannot police the world, nor is it prudent for us to do so. We cannot bring democracy to the world, especially when we really aren't a democracy. To have freedom people must earn it. It's much like someone who is hungry. You could give him a fish to eat the day or teach him how to fish so he eats for life.

The military budget though is relatively small when you look at future projections and outlays for Social Security, Interest on the National Debt, Medicare and Medicaid. All 4 of those within a decade will eclipse the military budget. Politicians aren't willing to make the hard choices to fix those 4 which are the greatest danger to our national wellfare. Instead they want to add yet even another Government run program that they can't really afford.

Every state in the union that has so far tried Statewide insurance has ultimately faced near bankruptcy and had to peel back the health care or discontinue it entirely. Mass. is headed that way now. Fundamentally a national or state program isn't what is needed. What is needed is more options in opening up cross state competition. Also tort reform is needed such that without it there really would be no point to any other health care reform.

I don't want a federal program that 4-5 years down the road has to be discontinued or severely curtailed because the government can no longer afford it, because that would hurt the poor and seniors more. About half of the uninsured could afford their own insurance if they just didn't have that extra car payment or boat payment. For them it is a lifestyle choice, so why should I have to pay for health care they themselves aren't willing to do.

As for the poor many more qualify for existing Medicaid but do not apply for whatever reason. Perhaps rather than a new health care program we should run some sort of sign up drive to get all those qualified onto the roles and see then how many are not insured.

Giving individuals a tax break for having insurance seems the cheapest and most effective way I think to do it. Just make the premiums completely deductible from taxes. Lot less red tape and thus a lot less expensive that way.

[TooMuchCredit]

Obama said: "The REFORMS I'm proposing would not apply for those who are here illegally."

What you just explained only shows the stupidity of this entire topic: If you want to obtain insurance RIGHT NOW, do they check if you are here legally? No? So what's the deal? If this is a problem for Republicans, why didn't they fix it? I don't want to be required to show my passport at every visit to the doctor just to make sure such an illegal can't PURCHASE (which, btw, means, he's going to PAY for it) insurance.

How about asking for a passport when buying stamps at the post-office? Could be an illegal, right? That's just plain stupid!

Fact is: No MONEY will be spent to cover illegals - and THAT'S all that matters to me.

I think too it's a misconception that illegals don't pay taxes. They pay sales, property (through ownership or rent), and many pay income taxes. They're just scapegoats.

And you're right, we don't want to have to show proof of citizenship to the EMT's when you re in a car wreck.

[TooMuchCredit]

This is the confusing part. On the other hands, some senate dems are saying that they are paying for "part" of it through shifting Medicare/Medicaid money around. Yet, they are not touching Medicare/Medicaid. Which is it? I don't know how they are going to get rid of that much Waste. They've already been trying for years.

From what I read, the savings comes from eliminating the Medicare Advantage plans that are offered through private insurers. Those plans offer the exact same Medicare benefits plus a few added perks, but they cost Medicare 14% more than if the patient had care directly though medicare. So if they eliminate those plans patients would still have the exact same medicare benefits they did before but there would be savings gained because unnecessary additional money would not be going to the private insurers.

[IBroke]

Obama said: "The REFORMS I'm proposing would not apply for those who are here illegally."

What you just explained only shows the stupidity of this entire topic: If you want to obtain insurance RIGHT NOW, do they check if you are here legally? No? So what's the deal? If this is a problem for Republicans, why didn't they fix it? I don't want to be required to show my passport at every visit to the doctor just to make sure such an illegal can't PURCHASE (which, btw, means, he's going to PAY for it) insurance.

How about asking for a passport when buying stamps at the post-office? Could be an illegal, right? That's just plain stupid!

Fact is: No MONEY will be spent to cover illegals - and THAT'S all that matters to me.

[TooMuchCredit]

One needs to only define "waste" in socialism to understand how it will work.

Waste is anyone who is no longer able to contribute to the benefit of the society as a whole.

AKA Death panels. Britain is the most "socialized" of the other systems with the government owning hospitals and employing doctors. They do not have death panels. They do not have a $30K per year limit on care. They do have a 30K ceiling before treatment is reviewed to see if there is a cheaper alternative. We have that sort of thing today in the insurance companies - if they didn't, they would not be able to make a profit.

I had wondered if we had any model for a system requiring private insurance. I had forgotten about Massachusetts. Massachusetts has mandated insurance and the free market there hasn't worked. And that's without requiring them to remove yearly/lifetime coverage caps, pre-existing conditions, adding portability, and out of pocket caps which surely will make premiums go up as it's new risk.

[justbroke]

Nope - I recommend reading section 246 of the bill.

Joe Wilson is known for "lying":

Actually Bauchas was asked directly about illegal aliens receiving healthcare under this bill and especially through the Co-Ops. Bauchas' answer was that you cannot keep people from purchasing insurance. His words, not mine. So they are now dancing around the answer to that. Even when asked if they were going to protect it through Social Security Numbers, Bachas stated that not every person in this country (who entered legally) have an SSN, so they will allow other forms of proof -- of legal entry -- including, but not limited to, a passport stamped with a VISA.

I just don't get it. Why don't people just agree that it's possible that illegal aliens will receive healthcare (which is why Bauchas kept insisting that you can't stop people from purchasing insurance).

[IBroke]

Joe Wilson was correct.

Nope - I recommend reading section 246 of the bill.

Joe Wilson is known for "lying":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqDKbCwiaVY

[OhioFiler]

This is the confusing part. On the other hands, some senate dems are saying that they are paying for "part" of it through shifting Medicare/Medicaid money around. Yet, they are not touching Medicare/Medicaid. Which is it? I don't know how they are going to get rid of that much Waste. They've already been trying for years.

One needs to only define "waste" in socialism to understand how it will work.

Waste is anyone who is no longer able to contribute to the benefit of the society as a whole.

[justbroke]

Obama will pay for this plan with a $500 billion reduction in Medicare waste. Uh huh.

This is the confusing part. On the other hands, some senate dems are saying that they are paying for "part" of it through shifting Medicare/Medicaid money around. Yet, they are not touching Medicare/Medicaid. Which is it? I don't know how they are going to get rid of that much Waste. They've already been trying for years.

[hereforinfo]

If "they" are finally able to get coverage via the public option, they won't be uninsured anymore - so you certainly won't "pay for them"....

We'll be subsidizing their "affordable" insurance plan. How do you think it's going to be so affordable? This is going to cost the government/taxpayers hundreds of billions.

[OhioFiler]

Obama will pay for this plan with a $500 billion reduction in Medicare waste. Uh huh.

[OhioFiler]

If "they" are finally able to get coverage via the public option, they won't be uninsured anymore - so you certainly won't "pay for them"....A little BUT important difference.
Anyway, I don't understand all the drama by those who already ARE covered. Everything stays the same.

Does it? If a company chooses not to offer coverage for its employees Obama will tax them 8% of their payroll. Well if I am running a business and paying 12% of my gross payroll in insurance premium I'll happily discontinue my plan and pay the Obama penalty.

Obama has said REPEATEDLY that his plan is for a single payer system. He believes it may take 10-20 years but we'll get there.

Joe Wilson was correct.

[IBroke]

Yeah, we're paying for them in the form of higher insurance premiums and copays. Once we start paying for them via our additional taxes, do you really think our premiums and copays are going to magically go down? No they won't, we'll still be paying the high premiums and the insurance companies and hospitals will line their pockets.

If "they" are finally able to get coverage via the public option, they won't be uninsured anymore - so you certainly won't "pay for them"....A little BUT important difference.
Anyway, I don't understand all the drama by those who already ARE covered. Everything stays the same.

[hereforinfo]

Those who already have coverage and OBJECT the public option should also keep in mind that they are also paying for the currently uninsured. That's a fact....so before arguing about "socialized medicine" (IMO, better than nothing), it's certainly worth thinking about that.

Yeah, we're paying for them in the form of higher insurance premiums and copays. Once we start paying for them via our additional taxes, do you really think our premiums and copays are going to magically go down? No they won't, we'll still be paying the high premiums and the insurance companies and hospitals will line their pockets.

[hereforinfo]

Another thing that would be nice too... You never have to pay upfront even if you have a copay. Let them give you a bill and you have 30 days or so to pay. Sometimes even those $15, $20 copays can be hard to scrounge up for someone who is just getting by paycheck to paycheck.

Most doctors have a policy that your copays have to be paid up front because if they didn't, do you know how many people would never pay? Who do you think the doctor is then going to pass that cost on to? The insurance companies and the paying patients. Then the insurance companies will raise our premiums. So as usual, we end up paying for more non-payers.