Health Insurance Discussion

[JRScott]

Whatever comes out of Congress, mark my words you will not be paying anything cheaper for Health Care. It is illogical to assume you can cover more people and make all people regardless of infirmity pay the same rates and assume that rates will go down.

I'm glad they stripped the lowered age of Medicare from the bill as it is already headed for bankruptcy and could have doubled enrollment potentially. It's just something that we can't afford.

Don't believe the numbers they are touting either. Government accounting is like Enron, they never include the full picture and they use smoke and mirrors. They always use the rosiest income generation figures (that's highest) and the rosiest cost projections (that's lowest). The truth is because of this they always overestimate revenue and underestimate cost and not insignificantly either. Medicare costs well in excess of ten fold its original projections.

The most significant change I believe needed is not in the bills, that's tort reform.

[momisery]

I think we can pay for it. Right now our costs are so high because we are paying for those who do not have insurance and they are using the ER's. That costs us more than twice as much, and don't think that cost is not passed on in overall costs at a hosptial. Plus little things, like we pay 10 times more for some medications than any other nation, why? And we pay twice as much for MRI machines than any other nation, again why? In Europe people bargin, in the US our business practice is to simply pay and pass on the cost. We may not want to look exactly like Canada, or Germany, or England, but for gosh sakes we can not keep looking like we do. More and more people are losing their insurance that will cost those with health insurance more and more all the time as the costs will be passed on in rising costs in healthcare. I guess how I see it is years ago our great nation and its people fought against unfair practices in the wild west. We stopped large ranchers from cutting off water supplies to the smaller ranchers downstream or towns because people need water to survive. We have been a nation about being fair as much as about being hard working and creative. There is no difference between denying a person water so they can ranch and survive, and denying a person a decent income so they can provide for their familes if they are willing to work. Or denying them from healthcare. You can say, they have healthcare but they don't. Just because they can use the ER does not mean they can afford their medications, or checkups. We force people into using the most expensive care in our nation the ER, and then we are upset up rising costs? We need to change our way of thinking, of doing business, and of caring for each other. Not everyone that is not working is a dead beat that is not willing to work, just as not everyone that filled a BK is a deadbeat. Are there some deadbeats, sure there are. I have never personally met anyone who would not work though and that did not want to work if they could afford to or were able to. I think there is as much exaggeration about lazy people as there is about BK deadbeats. And yes, we need to stop the AMA from keeping doctors out they are driving up the incomes and driving up the cost of medical school too. And Big Pharmees are spending on the schools too so the doctors training is all about medications and treatments. I would like to see fair and balanced training in the class rooms about all kinds of care and treatments that WORK of course instead of being so influenced to push pills.

[momisery]

I think we can pay for it. Right now our costs are so high because we are paying for those who do not have insurance and they are using the ER's. That costs us more than twice as much, and don't think that cost is not passed on in overall costs at a hosptial. Plus little things, like we pay 10 times more for some medications than any other nation, why? And we pay twice as much for MRI machines than any other nation, again why? In Europe people bargin, in the US our business practice is to simply pay and pass on the cost. We may not want to look exactly like Canada, or Germany, or England, but for gosh sakes we can not keep looking like we do. More and more people are losing their insurance that will cost those with health insurance more and more all the time as the costs will be passed on in rising costs in healthcare. I guess how I see it is years ago our great nation and its people fought against unfair practices in the wild west. We stopped large ranchers from cutting off water supplies to the smaller ranchers downstream or towns because people need water to survive. We have been a nation about being fair as much as about being hard working and creative. There is no difference between denying a person water so they can ranch and survive, and denying a person a decent income so they can provide for their familes if they are willing to work. Or denying them from healthcare. You can say, they have healthcare but they don't. Just because they can use the ER does not mean they can afford their medications, or checkups. We force people into using the most expensive care in our nation the ER, and then we are upset up rising costs? We need to change our way of thinking, of doing business, and of caring for each other. Not everyone that is not working is a dead beat that is not willing to work, just as not everyone that filled a BK is a deadbeat. Are there some deadbeats, sure there are. I have never personally met anyone who would not work though and that did not want to work if they could afford to or were able to. I think there is as much exaggeration about lazy people as there is about BK deadbeats.

[momisery]

Article today on MSN says 67%. That is pretty high.. and guess who pays for it when we BK? We all do, it is passed around in higher costs for everyone in the future. But, we all are filing because we have no choice. How many more will there be over the next year and how much high will healthcare costs go? I think it was interesting to find out that we pay twice as much for and MRI machine than ANY other country. When they tried to find out why basically they found out there was no bargaining being done, they just excepted the cost and paid it knowing that we the American people would pay more for each visit to pay for the extra cost. Most places did not even know they were over paying. We need controls! Malpractice suits are only 3% of the costs, and in Texas one area down their did away with that with tort reform. Their healthcare costs went up at a faster pace... explain that one.. geesh...

[momisery]

Article today on MSN says 67%. That is pretty high.. and guess who pays for it when we BK? We all do, it is passed around in higher costs for everyone in the future. But, we all are filing because we have no choice. How many more will there be over the next year and how much high will healthcare costs go? I think it was interesting to find out that we pay twice as much for and MRI machine than ANY other country. When they tried to find out why basically they found out there was no bargaining being done, they just excepted the cost and paid it knowing that we the American people would pay more for each visit to pay for the extra cost. Most places did not even know they were over paying. We need controls!

[justbroke]

I believe the figure was 60%

You guys keep making my point... it's a "contributor" but not the catalyst in most bankruptcies!

Personally, I'm for single-payer, but only if it's done correctly and not done "on the cheap". I mean employer contributions to central funding, with government funding for uninsured... as the sole payer to provider. Keep same provider system, but make it so that we don't end up with some of the single-payer systems in Europe that are about to fail (or have failed).

I'd also like to get rid of the $5MM lawsuit for people who spill "hot" coffee on themselves, because they didn't know it was "that" hot.

We will continue to have issues I know, but I want a real solution, not a patch. I think this will just be a new opportunity for more fraud and that the system will go the way of Medicare.

[Blueboy]

Please provide a source for this. We have been unable to find any reliable source indicating that medical "causes" bankruptcy. However, there is data that people do discharge medical debt.

Other than that, I believe the root cause is in the pricing structure and not in our actual ability to deliver healthcare. The problem is in the overhead associated with medical billing and competition for boutiques.

This and malpractice lawsuits.

[Faust]

I believe the figure was 60%

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w5.63/DC1

[justbroke]

The CH7 will occur in a Federal BK court whose cases are 80% medical caused.

Please provide a source for this. We have been unable to find any reliable source indicating that medical "causes" bankruptcy. However, there is data that people do discharge medical debt.

Other than that, I believe the root cause is in the pricing structure and not in our actual ability to deliver healthcare. The problem is in the overhead associated with medical billing and competition for boutiques.

[Tom_Mi]

So right now we don't have govt-funded healthcare, right?

Meet Joe, a friend of mine, a Christian, healthy, degreed laid-off IT manager. Just after the layoff, he got cancer. He's 5 months into chemo etc, barely clinging to life. You do NOT want to know what his un-covered expenses are. Don't pity him, he's tough and his faith is strong. Pity your wallet, because our inspired system is going to cost you a lot for his care.

He's beating it, and he'll get better, then he'll file CH7.

The CH7 will occur in a Federal BK court whose cases are 80% medical caused. (aka govt-supported medical bankruptcy system, can you say 'overhead'?)

The hospital will charge off the debt and get back a percentage of the loss in tax credits (aka govt-supported medical bills)

In the future, Joe's family won't go to the doctor, (for $80 + medication) and instead will wait for it to be bad enough for the ER (aka gov-supported unnecesary ER visits - 1,000+)

Good thing our government doesn't pay for anything. We're certainly better off.

[momisery]

The military.. ahhh underfunded. You see the problem is we have no one to trust. Big business we can not trust either. Blackwater comes to mind, maybe not underfunded not sure, but wow what a mess. Every thing big business touches is ruined too. Healthcare is where it is in cost because it went from non profit to profit and insurance companies like Healthnet pay their ceo's more in one day than most doctors make caring for people. We have no one to trust, so who am I going to trust.. myself

[Blueboy]

Its that way with everything the govt touches.

It absolutely amazes me with that type of record why anyone would trust those idiots in DC.

[justbroke]

For those that think the Govt health take over name one (1) thing the Govt ever did that came in at or even near the projected cost.

• The Shuttle Program. Oops... that was $170B to date.
• The SeaWolf Submarine. Oops... that was over budget and they still kept building them (at $1B a pop), just to stay "current".
• Medicare is working.... wait, it's $34.1trillion (yes, trillion with a "T") dollars underfunded.
• The Interstate Highway System. Oops... was budgeted at $25 billion for 12 years, but ended up costing $114 billion and 35 years to finish. That's about $480 billion in today's dollars.
• The Earned Income Credit (EIC). Ooops... looks like about $8-$10 billion a year is actually "overpaid" due to fraud... but no one seems to care because the IRS is understaffed!

We haven't even passed healthcare yet, and the CBO reports that the budget shortfall in 2008 was $1,000 billion (one trillion). It will be $1,900 billion (one trillion nine-hundred billion) for 2009. I wonder why.

[Blueboy]

For those that think the Govt health take over name one (1) thing the Govt ever did that came in at or even near the projected cost.

If this passes it will bring the Govt to this forum looking for ideas about BK.

[greenlime]

The health insurance in my country is patterned after the United States', and it is really awful. First of all, our citizens are not as rich as American citizens and second, our health care providers are not as trustworthy and/or educated as those in the US. There's no way for us to go but DOWN if we keep up with this system.