Should I panic now? WHAT SHOULD I DO???

[despritfreya]

To make sure I understand, if Discover's attorney doesn't show up at my 341 meeting on 2/14 they would still have 60 days AFTER my 341 to file an AP? as stated by SweetGa...How will I be notify?

SG is correct. The 341 meeting is not relevant. If a creditor (any creditor) wants a determination that the debt is not dischargeable under 523(a)(2); (a)(4) or (a)(6) - there might be a few others that are time sensitive but these are the biggies - then the creditor must file a Complaint no later than the 60th day after the 341 meeting. If the creditor needs additional time to make a decision it can file a Motion to Extend the Deadline but that Motion must be filed within the 60 days. If a creditor misses the deadline the debt is automatically discharged.

If a Complaint is filed the debtor (and debtor's attny if there was one for the main case) will be served with a copy of the Summons and Complaint. Service is by regular mail.

Des.

[justbroke]

I see that everyone has been having fun while I was away. Carry on!

[hkdaisy]

Welcome back JB! We missed you...

[SweetGeorgia]

B) There is no way to tell how many pro se debtors fall prey to letters such that OP got thus the AP does not need to be filed.

Obviously, I respect your knowledge - both technical and practical! I've learned so much from your comments.

Which is why this particular observation has me concerned. I have a dumb question: how (as in procedure) does that work?

It was my understanding that an unsecured creditor (like a credit card) needs to file an AP to get a debt declared nondischargeable - even if a settlement has already been reached with the debtor. I think I've read that judges in my district will not allow a debtor to voluntarily reaffirm unsecured debt, even though some debtors probably volunteer to reaffirm obviously nondischargeable debt (such as taxes charged to the credit card).

Is that a just district-to-district variation?

Or do creditors somehow skirt the rule? There are so many legal things that "can't happen" except they DO happen all the time.

*I do have more comments/questions about your other observations, but I should make it a different post. Mods may want to separate it out.

[despritfreya]

I have a dumb question: how (as in procedure) does that work? It was my understanding that an unsecured creditor (like a credit card) needs to file an AP to get a debt declared nondischargeable - even if a settlement has already been reached with the debtor. I think I've read that judges in my district will not allow a debtor to voluntarily reaffirm unsecured debt, even though some debtors probably volunteer to reaffirm obviously nondischargeable debt (such as taxes charged to the credit card).

Not dumb question.

No, an AP does not need to be filed. If you pull up a typical reaffirmation agreement you will see that there is a box that a creditor can check if the creditor believes there could be a 523 issue. While I have not seen what happens when the box is checked, my guess is that checking it will clue the Judge into what might happen if the agreement is not approved. I am further guessing that in such situations the agreement is filed with the Court long before the 60 days are up. The agreement will disclose the total debt but the amount being reaffirmed presumably will be less. If the Judge then holds a hearing he may question the debtor as to the timing of the charges and/or what was purchased and my decide that reaffirming the reduced amount is in the debtor's best interest - rather than the debtor facing an AP and possibly having to pay the legal fees of the creditor.

Des

[hkdaisy]

To all of you who's been so helpful and supportive throughout this daunting process...I want to give an update on how my 341 meeting went last week. The morning of my 341 meeting was nerve racking. The main room was filled with waiting debtors. I was called into a separate room with the first group of people. All had lawyers with them. The trustee asked the typical questions:
"State your name and address.
Did you list all of your assets and all of your liabilities?
Do you rent or own property? Have you ever own any real estate in your life?
What are you going to do with your vehicle? Surrender?
Are you expecting to receive a tax refund this year? If so, how much?
Are you expecting to inherit any money in the next six months?
Have you given away anything for less than its fair market value in the last six months?
Have you repaid a family member more than $1k in the past year?
Are you still working at ………?"

One man had filed BK before in 1997. The trustee asked him what circumstance made him file again? He said his small business failed. The trustee asked about his assets in the business because he showed little or no assets with his business. He said he had some computers and equipment totally about $500. One couple were in their late 60's and had been married over 25yrs, never filed BK. The trustee asked them 3-4 qts and said thank you, we're done. One man did not speak English. The trustee called an interpreter service and got someone on line who spoke Spanish. The trustee asked him 4-5 qts through the interpreter and his lawyer said nothing other than state his name for the debtor. No creditors showed up to anyone's meeting. I was one of the last ones to be called up and sworn in. He saw I did not have an attorney and asked if I understood the papers I signed with the petition preparer? I said I did not use a petition preparer. He asked me why I was filing BK and I said I was laid off my job. He asked me about my leased car, and I said it has been reprocessed. He asked me about my timeshare, if I tried selling it and I said "yes." It was very cut and dry. He then said this concludes my 341 meeting and wished me good luck in the future.

Phewwww...what a sign of relief walking out that morning, FL sun beaming in my face!

SweetGa, my queen of Pacer, how often should I be checking Pacer for new info? For example, I'm not sure which one of these links should I click to give me the latest update?
Query
Alias
Associated Cases
Attorney
Case File Location
Case Summary
Creditor
Deadline/Schedule
Docket Report ...
Filers
History/Documents
Judge
Notice of Bankruptcy Case Filing
Party
Related Transactions
Status
Trustee
View Document
Claims Register
Creditor Mailing Matrix

Your suggestions on navigating Pacer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you ALL again for the helpful comments.

[justbroke]

You just look at the top of the screen where your name is located. When you get your discharge or something changes, the dates will change.

[doni49]

And to expand on what JB said, look at the top of the page for "Date of last filing". When that date changes, then something has been updated in regards to your case. Check the "Docket Report". And it'll tell you everything that has happened in your case.

[hkdaisy]

According to this forum there are 3 Deadlines to Sweat Out after Your 341 meeting. Mine was on 2/14/12. My first deadline was 2/28 (WITHIN 14 DAYS AFTER YOUR 341 HEARING) The US Trustee must file a statement with the court as to whether or not you passed or flunked the Means Test.

I checked Pacer per doni49 and looked in the docket report but it did not mention if I pass or failed the means test. However, it did say this, "The information required by 11 U.S.C. Sec. 521(a)(1) as provided by the debtor(s) in this case is complete to the satisfaction of the trustee. No creditor or other party in interest has filed a request for an order of dismissal pursuant to 11 U.S.C. Sec. 521(i)(2) and the trustee does not believe that this case is subject to automatic dismissal pursuant to 11 U.S.C. Sec. 521(i). (Kapila, Soneet) (Entered: 02/24/2012)"


Order Determining Debtor's Compliance with Filing Requirements of Section 521(a)(1). Deadline for any creditor or other party in interest to contest the court's finding shall file an objection not later than 21 days from the date of entry of this order . (Rodriguez, Marcelo) (Entered: 02/27/2012)

I still have my 30 and 60 days deadline to wait out but is the above language means positive so far?

Thank you everybody!!!

[justbroke]

The 11 USC 521 language just means that you filled out all the correct forms and are in "compliance". This is a normal event that is docketed; otherwise, they'd dismiss your case if you didn't complete all the appropriate forms, schedules and local forms.

Generally speaking, there is no sweating after the 341 Meeting. You should generally know if your case is questionable by then.

Best wishes!

[jacko]

Why would you even bother filing, if you are so broke?

[QUOTE=hkdaisy;560204]I just received a letter today from an attorney's office dated (1/30/12) stating that one of my creditors Discover Credit card had retained them to represent Discover Bank. He states in the letter, "Based upon a review of this acct...our client is considering filing an adversary proceeding pursuant to 11 U.S.C 523 to object to the discharge of the debt."

[HHM]

Desp, and everyone else gave very good comments, but I do want to dispel one thing that was mentioned earlier in this thread about the "cost to the creditor" to file such a complaint.

It only costs them the filing fee. The attorneys work on contingency of the amount collected. But that can be turned into leverage on your part, the attorney is looking to do as little as possible, so they may not file the complaint if the amount is low or the facts too in question.

Desp response is apt, unless you are within the presumption period, generally it is best to force them to file a complaint, especially if the letter is coming from an out of state office.

[sore looser]

You need a lawyer...I got all kinds of those letters and they stressed me out! They were just threats! I am 4 1/2 years into our 13...yea we are almost done!!!! I can tell you we got a lawyer for $100 down and 100 for 3 more months and he put the rest in with my BK...This is not worth risking everything...bite the bullet call some lawyers get your free consultations
and talk to them about payments....it will get better once you get a lawyer!
p.s. I stopped opening all that mail.....

[despritfreya]

. . . Desp response is apt, unless you are within the presumption period. . .

But. . . just because the purchase/advance meets the requirements of 523(a)(2)(C) does not mean a creditor does not have to timely file a complaint. See 523(c) and Bk Rule 4007. If the deadline is missed the debt is discharged even if it is presumed to be non-dischargeable under 523(a)(2).

Des.

[hkdaisy]

You just look at the top of the screen where your name is located. When you get your discharge or something changes, the dates will change.

Hello to all my panels of experts! Hope you are all well
I checked Pacer for update on my discharge and this is what it said: Pending status: Awaiting Discharge Filed: 01/09/2012
People who filed chp 7 around the same time as me in Palm Bch County, FL had been discharged. I'm just wondering why mine have not? When can I expect to see a discharge? Thank you.

1. Rogerio njbke 2:12-bk-10474 7 01/09/2012 04/16/2012 Standard Discharge 04/13/2012

2. Emmanuel cacbke 6:12-bk-10474 7 01/06/2012 04/13/2012 Standard Discharge 04/10/2012

3. THOMAS cacbke 2:12-bk-10474 7 01/05/2012 Standard Discharge 04/11/2012