Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

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Newbie with a question

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  • Newbie with a question

    Hi all, this is my first post here, I'm sure it won't be my last. Anyway, I made some purchases on my credit cards about 2 weeks ago and now I've realized I need to file chapter 7. I can't stand being under this stress so I want to file soon, like in a coulple of weeks. My concern is causing a discharge dispute from a creditor. The purchases were for moderately priced clothing. One - $250, One- $450 and one- $125. The 250 & 450 are different store cards but I think they are issued by the same bank (Comenity) so would that be seen as over the $650 to one creditor or under to two creditors? Since I'm pro se can they raise an objection if it is below $650? I'm a little worried but I don't want to wait 3 months. I need out from under this.
    Any thoughts would be appreciated.

  • #2
    Welcome to BK forum!

    Under BK Section 523(a)(2)(C), if a creditor objects to dischargeability of a debt, it is presumed to be nondischargeable if $500 or more was charged to a single creditor for luxury goods and services within 90 days of filing. The total on two cards issued by the same creditor probably qualifies. Even if a debt is not presumed dischargeable, the creditor can still object to the discharge if they think they can prove you incurred the debt without intending to pay it. So, yes, a creditor can object to discharge.

    Whether they will is a question that can't be answered with certainty. For the amount you are talking about, the bank is not likely to bother, even if your charges are for luxury goods and services and would be presumed not dischargeable. If they do object, only the amounts that fall under the presumption or that they can prove you incurred without intent to pay would escape discharge.
    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


    • #3
      If it's clothing, and you weren't at Neiman Marcus or similar higher-end stores, then it is related to the cost of living. These creditors typically do not challenge these purchases. It's just not enough money to really worry about, for the bank to launch what amounts to a lawsuit within the bankruptcy -- also known as a complaint or adversary proceeding (AP). The AP could cost the bank $1,000 or more to pursue and it's just not worth it. I typically tell people here that if it's under $4,000, the creditor may just let it go to discharge.
      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


      • #4
        Welcome to the BK forum, you are in good company.

        I think others have answered your question about if your purchases would be disputed but I wanted to add a bit more.

        Filing for bankruptcy is something not to be rushed especially if you are planning on filing pro se. Have you talked with a lawyer yet? Many offer a free consultation.

        From the time I came to the realization I needed to file for bankruptcy it took about 5 months to prepare and file. I was current on my credit card payments but stopped making payments 3 months before filing. The stress was worse before making the decision to file and dealing with the phone calls was not that bad. It can take awhile before creditors file a lawsuit and garnish wages.

        Some people are judgment proof and do not necessarily need to file.

        Tell us more about your situation, do you own valuable property that you need to protect? Is your debt mostly unsecured? How much money do you make?

        You are in the right place to ask questions and there are a lot of knowledgeable folks on this board, take your time and learn as much as you can. As you learn more about the process hopefully it will ease your stress.


        • #5
          Thank you all for replying.
          rainypass: I was wondering myself if I really needed to file. I am a homemaker(only income is sometimes $90 in back child support per month). One joint bank account with hubs (all money in it is what he earns from his own small business). I have a checking account on my own that my husband puts the monthly grocery/household money in ($750 a month). Other than that I have no assets. House, car in husbands name only. My debt is all unsecured credit card debt. It is in my name only (when I filled out the credit applications I put that I was a homemaker so I was kind of surprised that I was approved actually I have about $13K total on 8 cards. The charges were mostly for clothing and accessories. I feel terrible about it. I wish I could turn back time. I'm VERY stressed and nervous, can't sleep. My husband dosen't know about the cards and I don't want him to know about the bk if I go that route. He's a good man but not very understanding about things like this and he has enough to worry about. I just want my life back! Any advice?


          • #6
            If you ever want your name to be on an account without worrying about a creditor suing you, getting a judgement and levying on the account, you need to deal with the debt in some manner.

            You really should not be hiding this from your husband. It will probably be very difficult to keep a BK a secret. For one thing, I think you will need to give the trustee information on your husband's business income and expenses, even if you file BK without him. Lies in a marriage are often worse than what was lied about. How can you have your life back whlie keeping this a secret from your husband? If he is a good man, even if he gets angry, he will work with you to get past this.
            LadyInTheRed is in the black!
            Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
            $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


            • #7
              I do not think it would be wise to file for bankruptcy without talking to your husband. Filing is not something that can be done secretly and it is very likely he would soon find out. If you have a joint banking account that is tied to a business that will need to be disclosed to the trustee.

              I would be best to just be honest with your husband, he may be upset about the money owed on the credit cards but filing for bankruptcy without telling him would be unfair. Yes you will need to deal with this debt but you should consider how this will affect your relationship, it would be better to make the choice together.


              • #8
                I'm thinking about telling him. It is difficult. But our joint checking account is just used to pay for household bills. His business accounts are in the business name, and I have nothing to do with that. I realize I will need to provide proof of his income though. I'm just a nervous wreck.


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