Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do: (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.

Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

341 meeting today! Pro Se, thoughts and observations

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 341 meeting today! Pro Se, thoughts and observations

    I just had my 341 meeting today. It went really smooth. I knew all of my paperwork, and had answers for all of the trustees questions. Actually, the trustee just wants to get you on the record while going over the petition. But it seemed as more of an outline rather than getting down into the petition itself. Pretty straightforward questions, no hassle. I did take notice of a few things and observations. 1.) The bankruptcy attorneys with clients at my 341 meeting all had really bad suits. One attorney looked as if he just graduated law school, and had an off the rack JC Penny suit. Other attorneys had really bad jackets with pants that did not look so good. More on line with what you would expect from a used car salesman. Other attorneys did not even wear suits. They just had pants and a shirt. Very unprofessional if you ask me. Dont these attorneys charge upwards of 3k to do a bankruptcy? I had one attorney approach me saying that he left me a voicemail? After about a minute of me looking at him confused, he stated some other name than mine. I said that was not me. This guy did not even know who or what his client looked like!!! I also could hear one attorney speaking to a client and chuckling at some of the other pro se filers. He was making very inappropriate and insulting remarks about the other filers there. Very unprofessional in my book. Also this same attorney got confused when the trustee was asking his client about his job, and the client was not conforming to what his petition stated. Seems to me that a professional would get all of this stuff straight before going into a hearing that is on the record. All in all this meeting only furthered my belief that filing pro se was a good decision on my part. I know my situation better than any of those lawyers would have ever been able to council me. The trustee asked if I had anyone help me prepare my forms. I stated that I had only purchased the NOLO guide online and did it all on my laptop. The trustee did not even know what the NOLO guide was? I am just very relieved now that this meeting is over. Thoughts and questions? Thanks!!

  • #2
    Congratulations on a smooth pro-se 341!

    Attorneys are human like all of us. Not everybody is good at their job and not everybody has good taste.

    I bet it is common for attorneys to not recognize their clients. My attorney was excellent, but I had to approach him to let him know who I was. It's understandable. We only met once, then I sent in all of my information, corresponded by email and met with his paralegal to sign the petition. It had been about 3 months between our one meeting and the 341. I actually pulled up his website to see his picture to make sure I recognized him!

    As far as the cheap suits are concerned, very little of that $3,000 actually goes into the attorney's pocket. They have a lot of overhead, including rent, staff, continuing education, bar dues, office equipment rent or maintenance and malpractice insurance which is very expensive. Many are also paying off huge student loans. Many attorneys struggle financially just like the rest of us.

    I don't know about other parts of the country, but here in San Francisco there has been a general trend in law firms towards dressing down. I have heard there are studies that conclude that casual dress codes result in more productive employees. For years, my firm was "business casual" every day except Friday which was casual, meaning we could wear jeans. This year they switched to everyday being a casual day. Many people still choose to dress up. Attorneys who don't wear suits everyday still wear suits to court and sometimes for client meetings, depending on the client. Many keep a suit at the office so they are prepared for last minute meetings or hearings. A 341 really isn't a court hearing. I bet those attorneys in shirt and slacks wear suits when they appear before a judge!

    Filing pro-se is not for everybody. But, somebody who has the time to do the job right and is good at navigating legal issues can do better for him/herself than a lousy attorney.
    Last edited by LadyInTheRed; 11-07-2014, 05:57 PM.
    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


    • #3
      The 341 Meeting is informal and specifically not before a judge or held in a courtroom.

      I concur with LITR. I know several attorneys and they look very different at a 341 or client meting, than they do before the judge. I have seen some that dressed much like the poster wrote, but on "game day", in the courtroom, they were all in their best, matching, Brook's Brothers, Armani, Burberry, Ralph Lauren, you name it. All in grays, blacks and navy blues. White shirts, standard.

      As LITR wrote, they struggle just as we do... they even file bankruptcy.

      I was probably the most shocked ever when I had my Chapter 13 Plan confirmed at the first evidentiary hearing. This Plan included strip downs (lien strips), cram downs, a step plan, a house, a rental property, and tax debt. I wasn't so shocked that I was confirmed, since I thought that was "easy" and every one always gets confirmed. I was shocked because a senior attorney, who was the president of the local bar, shook my hand and congratulated me. I didn't understand what that meant at the time but I do now.

      If you are Pro Se, there is no attorney that is ever going to be as intimate with any case as you are with your case. It's just the nature of things. What they do know is how to deal with issues that could creep up. What they do know are the local rules and usually have a relationship with the United States Trustee, the Chapter 13 Trustee(s) and many of the Chapter 7 Panel Trustees. They, themselves, may also be a Chapter 7 Panel Trustee. While you may know NOLO, they know FRCivP, FRBP, and FREv, and a bunch of local rules. Many attorneys are also trial tested. The NOLO book means nothing to them. If you said you read Title 11 and studied the FRBP and the local rules, they'd probably be more in tune with you.

      Maybe you were expecting more, but bankruptcy has many informal parts. Until you are in front of a Federal Judge in a Federal courtroom and there is a trial, it may all seem very informal. But that's the beauty of the bankruptcy process! In many cases, the debtor never needs to attend court and does not need with the formality of trials!
      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


      Unconfigured Ad Widget