Gifting a vehicle

[Flamingo]

This thread has run its course and is being closed.

[justbroke]

EVERYONE has been caught that has attempted this?

Sorry, but I for one, and this Forum for certain, can not advocate, condone or encourage what you want to do. I can only lay out the facts and show you that what you are doing is considered fraud. It is punishable in a variety of manners. As another poster wrote, this is a business decision to file bankruptcy. You have to weigh what discharging all your debt is worth to you. If filing bankruptcy and disclosing property is not worth $18K to you, then don't file and suffer the ills of fighting creditors in State court.

There are worse things than having your case dismissed. Yes, it's having your case dismissed with prejudice, and potentially being referred to the U.S. District Court for criminal prosecution. It's your choice, and that's why I'm not here pontificating and telling you that you shouldn't. I would, however, advise against it.

[AngelinaCatHub]

You kind folks, "JustBroke, Frogger, forgotten, Startingover08" in my opinion have been abused. This person has broken Forum rules by advocating violation of the law. In good faith you members have wasted your time beating morality into this guys thick head who not only lied to you members but you are not convincing him in any case.

Forum Rule #2

http://www.bkforum.com/announcement.php?f=6

I am reporting this thread to the Mods.

Also FYI, if I have a complaint against a user, or if I post into a thread that has been tainted by a Troll, I have an agreement with Mrs. that she will not deal with any action on my part due to her position as a Mod.

[AngelinaCatHub]

understood, but this car is my pride and joy. its amerceded cl55 amg in showroom condition. what if i say that it is broken down and i actually sell it "for parts" at $2K to a non-relative? will it be protected then?

OK, I can't even finish this thread to the bottom. You are attempting to commit FRAUD plain and simple. We have seen this before and you "giving" your dad a car because his broke down is all a lie. I think this thread should be closed as in NO way this Forum should help in fraudulent posting as many others lurk reading this crap and think it is feasible to defeat the system. It is NOT! 'Hub

[frogger]

i agree and understand how superficial and risky my line of thinking sounds, but on the other hand - are there any people out there that have gotten around these limitations? EVERYONE has been caught that has attempted this? i didn't think so and thats why i came here to hear everyone's opinions..

And all I gave you was mine. You'll do what you choose to do, you'll live with the results, and that's all right by me. The only person I have to worry about is the one I see in the mirror.

Good luck to you.

[forgotten]

If the car means that much, file a chapter 13 and pay at least the amount of the non-exempt property in to the plan. Done deal, no fraud.

If you can't afford to do that, you can't afford to keep the car.

[eplatt31]

Perhaps you can continue your line of thinking and your pride and joy can meet up with you in jail?

There are many more things more worthy than sheet-metal for focusing your love and affection on.

i agree and understand how superficial and risky my line of thinking sounds, but on the other hand - are there any people out there that have gotten around these limitations? EVERYONE has been caught that has attempted this? i didn't think so and thats why i came here to hear everyone's opinions..

[frogger]

understood, but this car is my pride and joy.

Perhaps you can continue your line of thinking and your pride and joy can meet up with you in jail?

There are many more things more worthy than sheet-metal for focusing your love and affection on.

[StartingOver08]

understood, but this car is my pride and joy. its amerceded cl55 amg in showroom condition. what if i say that it is broken down and i actually sell it "for parts" at $2K to a non-relative? will it be protected then?

Filing BK is a business decision. To jeopardize your entire BK over a vehicle is not a logical or ethical or wise thing to do. There can be significant penalties for fraud in BK. Concealment of assets is one of the most common forms of BK fraud. If your car is more important than getting your financial life back on track, then don't file BK.

Read this link http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/gmagg...cy%20fraud.pdf

In particular, look at the bottom of pg 2 to see what the penalties are for BK fraud - they are severe.

[eplatt31]

Remember, the Trustee's staff have access to the records - especially car registrations, property records and corp filings. These are all online and readily available for anyone to check. The Trustee's office has seen it all. Don't count on them not seeing the transfer. When you supply your records to the Trustees office (or your attorney to supply to the trustees office) that is just the start of their process, not the end. As JB points out, it would be considered a fraudulent conveyance if you have transferred the vehicle to an insider to protect it. So make sure to show it on your petition as the penalties can be severe.

BTW, when you get to the point where getting rid of the debt and the problems outweighs wanting to keep any asset - then you are ready to file BK!

understood, but this car is my pride and joy. its amerceded cl55 amg in showroom condition. what if i say that it is broken down and i actually sell it "for parts" at $2K to a non-relative? will it be protected then?

[StartingOver08]

Remember, the Trustee's staff have access to the records - especially car registrations, property records and corp filings. These are all online and readily available for anyone to check. The Trustee's office has seen it all. Don't count on them not seeing the transfer. When you supply your records to the Trustees office (or your attorney to supply to the trustees office) that is just the start of their process, not the end. As JB points out, it would be considered a fraudulent conveyance if you have transferred the vehicle to an insider to protect it. So make sure to show it on your petition as the penalties can be severe.

BTW, when you get to the point where getting rid of the debt and the problems outweighs wanting to keep any asset - then you are ready to file BK!

[frogger]

do u think i could get away with it?

Risky thinking.........

[justbroke]

Well, if you file for Bankruptcy, just be forewarned that the car is "potentially" going to be lost if the Trustee sees it as an "avoidable" conveyance.

[eplatt31]

This is precisely why the Trustee has significant avoidance powers.

Doesn't matter if it's a Christmas gift of not. You would be seen as taking something of value and giving it to someone else, to avoid having to "give" it to your creditors, which you admit to doing. There's not difference.

Now, as for how long to "get away with it", I can't tell you that. If someone could prove that you did this intentionally to defraud creditors, the lookback can be 4 years or more (depending on your State laws). If it's just the constructive fraud (you didn't "intend" to do it, such as giving it as a gift without knowledge that you were "hindering" creditors), the lookback is 1 year I believe. This 1 year lookback is what the Trustees generally go by.

Perhaps the vehicle is mostly covered by some exemption. Why are you wanting to do this... "hide, hinder, or delay" creditors? In these cases, i almost always say "just get it over with!" Why risk the repercussions of manipulating the system?

i REALLY want to keep this car and i am letting 2 properties foreclose (whole other story), staying mortgage free as long as possible. i've already lost $75K in interest only payments and i'm upside down about $125K. i just want to recover as much as possible. If a deficiency judgment is put against me, thats when i will file for bankruptcy, thus wanting to salvage my car...

[justbroke]

thanks for your reply. it would be just to protect it. it is worth 18K. i do owe creditors.

This is precisely why the Trustee has significant avoidance powers.

i would say it was a christmas gift because his car broke down on him with a costly repair and that my girlfriend drives me to work now. if i wait over 15-16 months, do u think i could get away with it?

Doesn't matter if it's a Christmas gift of not. You would be seen as taking something of value and giving it to someone else, to avoid having to "give" it to your creditors, which you admit to doing. There's not difference.

Now, as for how long to "get away with it", I can't tell you that. If someone could prove that you did this intentionally to defraud creditors, the lookback can be 4 years or more (depending on your State laws). If it's just the constructive fraud (you didn't "intend" to do it, such as giving it as a gift without knowledge that you were "hindering" creditors), the lookback is 1 year I believe. This 1 year lookback is what the Trustees generally go by.

Perhaps the vehicle is mostly covered by some exemption. Why are you wanting to do this... "hide, hinder, or delay" creditors? In these cases, i almost always say "just get it over with!" Why risk the repercussions of manipulating the system?