Latest News on UI extensions

[helpme2010]

I agree with msm. I did think Reagans tax cuts were the right thing to do at the right time and they did stimulate the economy, but after that, no. I got an A in my economics class last year and the government does have to spend during a recession to help the economy get back on its feet. So if the spending is done wisely, I am all for it. Helping the unemployed is one of the best ways to help during a recession, whereas lowering taxes on the rich is one of the worst. Check the congressional budget office and a host of other agencies and professionals for more info.

Once we get out of this recession, we are going to have to do some major tightening of our belts and learn how to live with less benefits and less toys.

I would be a little more sympathetic to the republicans cause of stopping the spending, if they were open to not extending tax cuts for the wealthy. Or if they would stop trying to support more tax breaks for corporations, pulling out the trump card that not giving them massive tax cuts would result in the loss of jobs. Corporations cut as many jobs as possible no matter what. If people can make them money, they will hire people. IF they can outsource or gobble up another company, they will fire people.

I'm tired of this trickle down theory that if we give all the major breaks to the rich, they will so generously spend the money and we will get to collect the scraps on the bottom. This simply does not work. It may have worked in the Reagan era, but we are in a new world now!

[msm859]

msm859 wrote:

Care to explain the economics behind this statement? My understanding is that anyone making enough to pay taxes to begin with will be affected if the Bush tax cuts don't get extended?

Which is exactly what is going to happen the way I see it at the moment...for once I hope I'm wrong...

Sure. The Bush tax cuts had 2 theories behind them. 1. we had a surplus and it is really the people's money so we should give it back to them. And 2. The tax cuts would stimulate the economy and bring in more revenue -- supply side economics. Supply side economics was an interesting theory when I was getting my BS in Economics in 1981. It is no longer a theory -- it doesn't work. (Unless perhaps we started out with very regressive marginal tax rates - well over 50%). Reagan first tried it and it didn't work. But if there is now any doubt, the 8 years of Bush experiment should lay it to rest. Actually the problem is trying to find the right "balance". Tax brackets that supply the revenue you need and that do not suppress growth. It appears we found the right balance under the Clinton years. We had a vibrant economy and a balanced budget. Everyone would be better off if we had a balanced budget. So even if ALL of the tax cuts expire this simply means that we are returning to to tax "brackets" we had under Clinton. Right now might not be an ideal time to take money out of the middle class -- since they would probably spend it all and help with the economic recovery. But in the long term it really is more important to have a balanced budget. Our country is really reaching a point were the massive deficits are going to become (if they aren't already) drag that will permanently hamper growth. If all of the tax cuts expire that would single handedly cut $4 trillion from the deficit over the next 10 years. That fact alone will stimulate growth and jobs. Think of all of the people who are unemployed - or underemployed. Would they rather collect unemployment or have a decent job and perhaps pay $800 - $1,000 more per year in taxes? Think of were we would be today if instead of starting 2 wars costing trillions of dollars, killing 100's of thousands, we would have declared war on energy dependence and spent that money on making this country energy independent and investing in this country to become the world leader in alternative energy. The Republicans argue taxes should not be raised on anyone in this economic environment. The truth is they only care about the tax cuts for the super rich and they don't care what effect it has on the economy today or the country tomorrow. If they cared about the economy they would be extending unemployment benefits. If they cared about the deficit they would be arguing with the President about making any of the Bush tax cuts permanent. Instead they argue we have to extend the tax cuts for everyone and by the way make them all permanent and no we cannot extend unemployment because that will add to the deficit. Incidentally one of the reasons we are even having this conversation is the Republicans put the sunset clause in was to mask the total costs of the tax cuts -- and I suspect also saying behind closed doors -- lets challenge anyone to actually let them expire in 10 years -- and raise taxes!. You have to remember one of the reasons the Democrats lost big in 1994 was because the Republicans scared the people that the sky was going to fall down and the economy self destruct because of the massive tax hikes the Democrats enacted in 1993 -- not a single Republican in the Senate voted for it and Al Gore actually had to come in and break the tie. Of courts we know the Republicans were absolutely wrong about their predictions -- as they are now. Sadly, a people who do not learn from history are doomed to make the same mistakes. So yes, we would be far better off to go back to the tax brackets we had under Clinton instead of keeping the ones Bush gave us.

[shark66]

msm859 wrote:

The country would be way better off if they all expired then if they were all extended.

Care to explain the economics behind this statement? My understanding is that anyone making enough to pay taxes to begin with will be affected if the Bush tax cuts don't get extended?

Which is exactly what is going to happen the way I see it at the moment...for once I hope I'm wrong...

[tobee43]

This has been my fear for many years now as I watch companies continue to outsource jobs and even entire industries to China and India. Pretty soon, you will end up with 2 social classes, the very rich and the very poor, with the middle class shrinking. What do you do with all those unemployed? Continue to string them along with small entitlement programs while the rich continue to complain about them taking the entitlement???

Yikes!!!

i actually think it will be called "welfare"....now of course that will solve the problem!

[helpme2010]

This has been my fear for many years now as I watch companies continue to outsource jobs and even entire industries to China and India. Pretty soon, you will end up with 2 social classes, the very rich and the very poor, with the middle class shrinking. What do you do with all those unemployed? Continue to string them along with small entitlement programs while the rich continue to complain about them taking the entitlement???

Yikes!!!

[tobee43]

ahahahah imagine taking burger statistics classes or french fry chemistry or even fast food marketing to convince the public fast food is healthy food.

It's funny, my comment about the Indians and the burgers came partly from my thinking, how far do the citizens of this country have to go to compete against citizens of another country willing to work far longer and far cheaper to get our jobs. I have a lot of respect and pity for lets say the citizens of India or China, who may have to work 7 days a week and 12 to 14 hours a day just to put some scraps on the table for their families. So many get outsourced by our companies as they can work for a fraction of the cost and possibly complain less (so to a corporation, they look wonderful).

Eventually the citizens of our country will have to do the same thing, work 6 days a week, perhaps 7 days a week at McDonalds, for a low rate, to compete against the foreign citizens that want that job.

Then just like a Twilite Zone episode, we will all compete against the machinery, the robots, only to be replaced by them. Remember that episode where the CEO keeps downsizing the staff of a large factory, replacing the people with machinery, only to find himself ultimately replaced by a robot? The final scene shows the entire facility all operated by machines that have replaced the 10,000 people, the CEO, a robot!

oh!! i don't remember that episode!!! that's enough to scare the life out of anyone...

well...interesting that new show "outsource" i think it's called and it's a comedy...i'm not thinking anything is funny about taking our jobs....but it's NOT the people with the jobs it's the companies themselves...like eBay...what a BIG BIG mistake....their customer service went down the tubes but what do they care that they outsourced all the jobs and now you call their customer service dept. and they hang up on you....eBay already made billions so they don't care anymore.....we are IN THE TWILIGHT zone!! LOL!!! and i don't like this episode at all!!

[helpme2010]

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i can see it how.......PHd needed to flip burgers......with 5 years experience you will be allowed to touch the lettuce!!!!.......good luck! your right we sure do need it!

ahahahah imagine taking burger statistics classes or french fry chemistry or even fast food marketing to convince the public fast food is healthy food.

It's funny, my comment about the Indians and the burgers came partly from my thinking, how far do the citizens of this country have to go to compete against citizens of another country willing to work far longer and far cheaper to get our jobs. I have a lot of respect and pity for lets say the citizens of India or China, who may have to work 7 days a week and 12 to 14 hours a day just to put some scraps on the table for their families. So many get outsourced by our companies as they can work for a fraction of the cost and possibly complain less (so to a corporation, they look wonderful).

Eventually the citizens of our country will have to do the same thing, work 6 days a week, perhaps 7 days a week at McDonalds, for a low rate, to compete against the foreign citizens that want that job.

Then just like a Twilite Zone episode, we will all compete against the machinery, the robots, only to be replaced by them. Remember that episode where the CEO keeps downsizing the staff of a large factory, replacing the people with machinery, only to find himself ultimately replaced by a robot? The final scene shows the entire facility all operated by machines that have replaced the 10,000 people, the CEO, a robot!

[tobee43]

tobee, I am disappointed with you. If McDonalds wants a PHd, then you go out and get that PHd, also, you should get another degree from Burger University, if that is what a fine, high-end establishment like McDonalds demands, then that is what we will all do. So it may cost $40,000 and 2 years of your life, but just think about the ROI

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i can see it how.......PHd needed to flip burgers......with 5 years experience you will be allowed to touch the lettuce!!!!.......good luck! your right we sure do need it!

[helpme2010]

wish we could find one of those tough litigators for us!! who would it be????

tobee, I actually see some senators and congressmen who are standing up firm to extending the rich tax cuts and for pushing for unemployment, and taking a stand for what is right. I see them on CNN and MSNBC all the time. What I fear is even if the dems take this strong stance, that the republicans will end up twisting it during the next election time as the dems not doing anything, when in fact it is the dems who are doing everything and the republicans are just saying no to everything.

I want to pull my hair out sometimes when I see this type of behavior being rewarded. Meanwhile, who suffers from this game, the poor.

[helpme2010]

You are far more optimistic than I. Obama and the Dems are too weak and disorganized. Obama spent too much time teaching law. We need a tough litigator in there. He needs to be prepared to walk away from extending the Bush tax cuts. Let the Republicans spend all there time and energy trying to extend them. The country would be way better off if they all expired then if they were all extended.

msm, I agree with your statement 100% and I was being overly-optimistic. I get angry at Obama everytime he tries this compromise speech and how we can all work together when at the same time the republican whips are telling the media that the single focus is to remove Obama from office and extend the tax cuts for the rich and there will be no compromise.

I see the liberal media pushing hard for Obama and the dems to take a strong stand and I hope they do. It saddened me that the recent takeover by the republicans in congress was misinterpreted as the public wanting their agenda of tax cuts for the rich to be implemented, instead of the reality which was the public wants the unemployment to lower and the economy to be better and they sent a message to congress by voting out a lot of people.

[helpme2010]

nope have a masters and they wouldn't consider either of us...since we both have one...so that didn't work!!! PHd...may have done it...you think?

tobee, I am disappointed with you. If McDonalds wants a PHd, then you go out and get that PHd, also, you should get another degree from Burger University, if that is what a fine, high-end establishment like McDonalds demands, then that is what we will all do. So it may cost $40,000 and 2 years of your life, but just think about the ROI

[tobee43]

You are far more optimistic than I. Obama and the Dems are too weak and disorganized. Obama spent too much time teaching law. We need a tough litigator in there. He needs to be prepared to walk away from extending the Bush tax cuts. Let the Republicans spend all there time and energy trying to extend them. The country would be way better off if they all expired then if they were all extended.

wish we could find one of those tough litigators for us!! who would it be????

[tobee43]

I definitely think Obama and the dems are going to fight the republicans for unemployment extension for any compromise the republicans want. It's unfortunate, but if Obama doesn't extend unemployment the democratic base will never forgive him. I just hope the dems don't bargain say for a 3 month extension for the republicans 2 year rich tax cut extension.

Perhaps say 1 year unemployment extension for a 1 year rich tax extension, or bump it to $500,000 and up rich tax cut for a 6 month unemployment extension.

The sad part is, this will drag out well into December as the republicans don't care about the unemployed, but they will start getting really nervous as the rich may have to pay a higher amount in January. Nothing worse than a millionaire sweating over a few precious dollars they may be losing!

i'm with you on this one helpme...i think they are just using us as pawns......just something to trade off for a bigger piece of the pie...

[tobee43]

McDonalds only wanting people with degrees? What happened to the Indians they brought in (the only people left that want to work for them because they don't know any better yet, are willing to work 6 or 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, for a fraction of what everyone else is willing to work for?).

How long until the fast food joints require a Masters Degree? LOL

nope have a masters and they wouldn't consider either of us...since we both have one...so that didn't work!!! PHd...may have done it...you think?

[msm859]

I definitely think Obama and the dems are going to fight the republicans for unemployment extension for any compromise the republicans want. It's unfortunate, but if Obama doesn't extend unemployment the democratic base will never forgive him. I just hope the dems don't bargain say for a 3 month extension for the republicans 2 year rich tax cut extension.

Perhaps say 1 year unemployment extension for a 1 year rich tax extension, or bump it to $500,000 and up rich tax cut for a 6 month unemployment extension.

The sad part is, this will drag out well into December as the republicans don't care about the unemployed, but they will start getting really nervous as the rich may have to pay a higher amount in January. Nothing worse than a millionaire sweating over a few precious dollars they may be losing!

You are far more optimistic than I. Obama and the Dems are too weak and disorganized. Obama spent too much time teaching law. We need a tough litigator in there. He needs to be prepared to walk away from extending the Bush tax cuts. Let the Republicans spend all there time and energy trying to extend them. The country would be way better off if they all expired then if they were all extended.