Political Discussion

[sguerra923]

I know one explanation (basically my reason), but there are plenty of others too that are fed up with the Fed!!!

Unless you research how the fed came about, how they are destroying the middle class you will NEVER get it. You will simply go about your business tossing a coin on the dem republican machine actually thinking you just made a difference with your vote while they laugh at you.

Ron Paul knows their game and he wants to stop it.

But if Ron Paul is the ONLY that wants to stop it and is showing it by pushing a whole audit on the FED then why are people saying he doesn't have a chance?

[jacko]

The Fed did not destroy the middle class. The middle class destroyed each other.

I know one explanation (basically my reason), but there are plenty of others too that are fed up with the Fed!!!

Unless you research how the fed came about, how they are destroying the middle class you will NEVER get it. You will simply go about your business tossing a coin on the dem republican machine actually thinking you just made a difference with your vote while they laugh at you.

Ron Paul knows their game and he wants to stop it.

[banca rotta]

I know one explanation (basically my reason), but there are plenty of others too that are fed up with the Fed!!!

Unless you research how the fed came about, how they are destroying the middle class you will NEVER get it. You will simply go about your business tossing a coin on the dem republican machine actually thinking you just made a difference with your vote while they laugh at you.

Ron Paul knows their game and he wants to stop it.

[sguerra923]

That's the scary part if you're saying that Ron Paul is going to harm humans and the economy which sounds like his supporters are brain washed to believe that liberties, freedom, and backing the constitution will destroy America? I still don't understand if you're saying it will destroy America then why are more and more people backing Ron Paul? What are you seeing that thousands of other people world wide are missing? Because I'm in the middle of trying to understand your point and backers of Ron Paul... I'm not saying you're wrong but I want to understand why his numbers are growing..

Can someone please explain?

[IamOld]

You're lucky!!! I too was employed by employers where we paid nothing...all that ended 2 years ago...now we're on spouse's health ins for - total $800/mo for family coverage (including dental vision, etc.)...oh well...

Well, you have to be a French citizen to go to the SOrbonne for free - and a super duper student (did I just use this phrase??)

I gag every time I see my paycheck as to what's left over...

Good luck to us all.

[shark66]

Ah but we already pay 50% in taxes!! The average person pays around 20% in Fed taxes (withheld from paycheck)- add then SS, plus Medicare, then add state income taxes (where applicable) local income and/or property taxes PLUS!!! the amount withheld from your paycheck...

I guess I'm not an average person...pun intended... ...never came anywhere near 50%, regardless of how you do the math.

Also, the amount of services you get in France, Germany, etc are far in above what we get here - such as free university education...now I will say it is HARDER to get into univ, but at least you don't become Sallie Mae's indentured servants...

Could you possibly give out the secret of getting my kids to Sorbonne for free, I'd love to find that one out in advance...

And there are no lines in most Eur countries - the Brits are different - that is the only place where the docs are actually gov't employees, and the NHS has been underfunded since Thatcher.

NHS has been an absolute disaster long before Lady Thatcher came into the picture...not that her tenure helped the matters...

And you know, on the personal side, I was lucky - until 2 years before my layoff, where I worked we paid ZERO for healthcare...then I went from paying ZERO to $150/check (which in the great scheme of things was still a bargain :-)

I *still* pay zero for my family's healthcare, apart from $15 co-pay on every visit...

Good luck to us all.

[IamOld]

Good luck to us all.

Ah but we already pay 50% in taxes!! The average person pays around 20% in Fed taxes (withheld from paycheck)- add then SS, plus Medicare, then add state income taxes (where applicable) local income and/or property taxes PLUS!!! the amount withheld from your paycheck...

Also, the amount of services you get in France, Germany, etc are far in above what we get here - such as free university education...now I will say it is HARDER to get into univ, but at least you don't become Sallie Mae's indentured servants...

And there are no lines in most Eur countries - the Brits are different - that is the only place where the docs are actually gov't employees, and the NHS has been underfunded since Thatcher.

And you know, on the personal side, I was lucky - until 2 years before my layoff, where I worked we paid ZERO for healthcare...then I went from paying ZERO to $150/check (which in the great scheme of things was still a bargain :-)

[shark66]

shark66, I agree that taxes on especially foods are not the way to go and are intrinsically intrusive...(and frankly silly)...

And a lot of those lifestyles are caused by increasing economic inequality - who can go to the gym, if a) they can't afford it, b) spend longer and longer hours working and commuting. Shark (as usual) is 100% right...on this one!!!

Economic inequality has *nothing* to do with this. I've never been in the gym and am not overweight by any significant margin. My daily commute is between five and six hours.

The government's food pyramid is upside down. On purpose.

Late Dr. Atkins had proved that and was never forgiven...

Let's not make excuses for those who choose not to use their brains...


BUT - a single payor system, by definition is the most efficient (that is how much has to be spend to cover everyone) as any actuary will tell us, the larger the pool of covered folks, the lower the cost.

If I were paying 50% in taxes which is pretty much the European norm, I'd expect to hit no lines on my way to the doctor...not bloody likely...


I've worked in this industry for about 20 years, and this system is broken.

No argument from me on this one. Getting the government away from it as far as possible is a prerequisite for any fix...

Good luck to us all.

[IamOld]

I couldn't have said this better myself. Thank you.

Good luck to us all.

Well, except that the US spends TWICE more than the next highest spender on healthcare per person - TWICE more and we have worse outcomes, have about 50 mil uncovered, rising healthcare costs, etc. The French/Germans cover everyone, docs are independent, and yet they wind up spending less than half per person...(and the French are VERY demanding health care (I hate this word) "consumers" - so are Germans...Danes, Dutch, etc.

Also too, let's remember that before the insanity hit us in the 80's, the Blue Cross associations were ALL non-profits and VERY heavily regulated.

[IamOld]

shark66, I agree that taxes on especially foods are not the way to go and are intrinsically intrusive...(and frankly silly)...

And a lot of those lifestyles are caused by increasing economic inequality - who can go to the gym, if a) they can't afford it, b) spend longer and longer hours working and commuting. Shark (as usual) is 100% right...on this one!!!

BUT - a single payor system, by definition is the most efficient (that is how much has to be spend to cover everyone) as any actuary will tell us, the larger the pool of covered folks, the lower the cost.

I've worked in this industry for about 20 years, and this system is broken.

We also should remember that nations (every other than the US in the developed world) have their own "flavors" of universal health care...Germany's goes back to...the early 1880's....

[shark66]

Because of the govt's involvement or healthcare and college education their prices are artificially high. The fed gives the govt who gives us the digital dollars that's not worth the paper it's not printed on which causes higher prices for the poor.

I couldn't have said this better myself. Thank you.

Good luck to us all.

[shark66]

If you want healthcare prices to go down then we need a single payor system the profit system we have today will not do it.

If I were to choose between UK's "single-payor" system (in which I lived for several years, unlike most people on this board) and the corrupt, upside-down broken healthcare system in this country, I'd choose the latter any day of the week.

If we want to be proactive we should also tax fast food, junk food, alcohol and tobacco with the extra tax going towards healthcare and to try to curb the growing unhealthy lifestyles that are really going to put a burden on our health care system.

Wrong on so many levels...

If I'm paying for my own health care, what gives the government the right to tax my *legal* habits and lifestyle? Even socialist presidents-for-life in former Eastern Block countries had more respect for one's personal choices, for crying out loud...are we going back to retrogressive views of the Puritans that caused so much grief in this country?

The biggest burden on healthcare system is the cost of litigation/malpractice insurance. Talk to any physican running their own practice...especially in the states that are owned by trial lawyers such as NY and NJ...be prepared to have your ear chewed off, though...

Good luck to us all.

[banca rotta]

Sorry, again not true. Health insurance has been skyrocketing year after year and less and less people can afford it (Under your belief the price should go down when less can afford) If you want healthcare prices to go down then we need a single payor system the profit system we have today will not do it. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthC...ory?id=9818699
If we want to be proactive we should also tax fast food, junk food, alcohol and tobacco with the extra tax going towards healthcare and to try to curb the growing unhealthy lifestyles that are really going to put a burden on our health care system.

Stock prices go down because there are more sellers then buyers. The same goes for housing, cars, stuff and healthcare. There's either less demand for something or it's priced too high and the price needs to correct to a price point that's affordable.

Because of the govt's involvement or healthcare and college education their prices are artificially high. The fed gives the govt who gives us the digital dollars that's not worth the paper it's not printed on which causes higher prices for the poor.

I wouldn't tax "junk food" but rather tell the folks with no self control they will have to pay more since they are a higher risk. I bet that free market idea will bring down their weight as well as their health care costs.

[sguerra923]

And, yet, he's not going to be the next president.

People are looking for a quick and easy fix. His message is simple, wrong but simple, and easy to understand. BTW, his supporters probably don't even understand the harm he would do. Just like Bush's supporters (even though they were a minority of voters, one more reason to get rid of the electoral college) didn't understand the harm that he would do when the Supreme Court handed him the presidency.

Everyone is blaming President Obama for what is going on now. The only thing he is to blame for is not having a backbone and letting Bush's tax cuts expire. The economy today is a direct result of 8 years of a republican as a president and the gop and tea partiers (who really have no idea what the Boston Tea Party was about at all) holding the economy hostage. They even threatened to do it over aid to natural disaster victims. BTW, Ron Paul would eliminate that completely. Another way he would do severe harm to humans and the economy.

That's the scary part if you're saying that Ron Paul is going to harm humans and the economy which sounds like his supporters are brain washed to believe that liberties, freedom, and backing the constitution will destroy America? I still don't understand if you're saying it will destroy America then why are more and more people backing Ron Paul? What are you seeing that thousands of other people world wide are missing? Because I'm in the middle of trying to understand your point and backers of Ron Paul... I'm not saying you're wrong but I want to understand why his numbers are growing..

[helpmeout]

But if you claim he's going to do a whole lot of harm then why are his numbers (supporters) increasing day by day? What are these Ron Paul supporters getting from his messages that he's delivering? What is he saying that we aren't getting?

And, yet, he's not going to be the next president.

People are looking for a quick and easy fix. His message is simple, wrong but simple, and easy to understand. BTW, his supporters probably don't even understand the harm he would do. Just like Bush's supporters (even though they were a minority of voters, one more reason to get rid of the electoral college) didn't understand the harm that he would do when the Supreme Court handed him the presidency.

Everyone is blaming President Obama for what is going on now. The only thing he is to blame for is not having a backbone and letting Bush's tax cuts expire. The economy today is a direct result of 8 years of a republican as a president and the gop and tea partiers (who really have no idea what the Boston Tea Party was about at all) holding the economy hostage. They even threatened to do it over aid to natural disaster victims. BTW, Ron Paul would eliminate that completely. Another way he would do severe harm to humans and the economy.