Political Discussion

[msm859]

One of the reasons or actually the main reason I like RP is he's one of the only few people that understands the corrupt monetary system.

One example I use is this recent post: Try this and see how you do http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...see-how-you-do

It's a good lesson for those that don't know what it's like to be working poor.

My point is that for the 40 plus million that are struggling even though they are working they shouldn't have to struggle if this was a true free market system!!!!

It isn't that they don't have enough income, it's that fed money printing, Obama/Bush, dem/repub spending and stimulas and "good intention" social programs really keep the cost of living too high for the lower income people. Not true. The problem is that they don't have enough income. For the last 20 years the rich have been getting all of the gains. The middle class income has been stagnant. The stimulas and social programs do NOT keep the cost of living too high. Gas is higher than it would naturally be under supply and demand economics because Wall Street is manipulating the market with their excessive speculation.

In a real free market system, (something we DO NOT currently have) the cost of living would drop and this would help the poor folks. NO

Prices in all areas of the economy always seek fair value NO People/Corporations try to maximize profit and Ron Paul is the only one that sees this.

None of the politicians see this and the liberals especially cannot understand this especially in healthcare. If we all cannot afford health care then prices will come down to their correct price point. If we have govt assistance in healthcare then it actually prices the poor out.

Sorry, again not true. Health insurance has been skyrocketing year after year and less and less people can afford it (Under your belief the price should go down when less can afford) If you want healthcare prices to go down then we need a single payor system the profit system we have today will not do it. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthC...ory?id=9818699
If we want to be proactive we should also tax fast food, junk food, alcohol and tobacco with the extra tax going towards healthcare and to try to curb the growing unhealthy lifestyles that are really going to put a burden on our health care system.

[msm859]

Can someone please explain to me why people are so interested in having him as our next president? Why is the military supporting him? Or is it just numbers being manipulated to make is seem like he has a chance?

His message is generally very simple and easy to understand and many people like that. Ending all the wars and closing our bases oversees has a lot of merit. We need to put this country first before we try to expand our empire. Unfortunately, he is also a bit extreme on some of his libertarian ideas that don't quite fit in a modern society. The short answer though is he does not have a chance.

[banca rotta]

One of the reasons or actually the main reason I like RP is he's one of the only few people that understands the corrupt monetary system.

One example I use is this recent post: Try this and see how you do http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...see-how-you-do

It's a good lesson for those that don't know what it's like to be working poor.

My point is that for the 40 plus million that are struggling even though they are working they shouldn't have to struggle if this was a true free market system!!!!

It isn't that they don't have enough income, it's that fed money printing, Obama/Bush, dem/repub spending and stimulas and "good intention" social programs really keep the cost of living too high for the lower income people.

In a real free market system, (something we DO NOT currently have) the cost of living would drop and this would help the poor folks.

Prices in all areas of the economy always seek fair value and Ron Paul is the only one that sees this.

None of the politicians see this and the liberals especially cannot understand this especially in healthcare. If we all cannot afford health care then prices will come down to their correct price point. If we have govt assistance in healthcare then it actually prices the poor out.

[sguerra923]

Just because people don't agree with your stance on Ron Paul doesn't mean that they aren't listening or understanding what he is saying. They just don't agree with his stance and recognize that he would not make a good president, he would do a whole lot of harm.

But if you claim he's going to do a whole lot of harm then why are his numbers (supporters) increasing day by day? What are these Ron Paul supporters getting from his messages that he's delivering? What is he saying that we aren't getting?

It doesn't make sense why he was able to raise 1 million dollars in one day last week from regular people doing the work and not even his campaign doing much work. It doesn't make sense why he won the California straw poll and is always in the top 3 in polls and most of all having more donations and support from the military which out beats all GOP runners combine also beating out Obama. Also, averaging 2,000+ likes a day on facebook which puts him at 524,000+?

Can someone please explain to me why people are so interested in having him as our next president? Why is the military supporting him? Or is it just numbers being manipulated to make is seem like he has a chance?

[helpmeout]

If people really just watched some of Dr. Paul's debates and speech they will grab the true concept of what he's trying to do.

Just because people don't agree with your stance on Ron Paul doesn't mean that they aren't listening or understanding what he is saying. They just don't agree with his stance and recognize that he would not make a good president, he would do a whole lot of harm.

[shark66]

The aforementioned quote that many people believe is Jefferson's, is actually from a speech by President Ford...

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/government-big-enough-to-give-you-everything-you-wantquotation

One thing that no one wants to talk about in Europe and Japan - which is one of the biggest problems regarding sustainability of the entitlement programs as we know them - is the negative birth rate...

Here, of course, other reasons come into play...

Good luck to us all.

[banca rotta]

Exactly - first, entitlement is a "code word" by those who wish to take our benefits away from us. And but so what if it is an entitlement...aren't we entitled to a decent retirement in the "richest country on Earth?" This is NOT a question in other developed countries!

Also re Jefferson - Jefferson never said what the poster above says - http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/fdr...cial-security/ (Scroll down on page)

For one thing, the English is modern not 18th Cent English.

You bet we are! What I have always said about "entitlements" or whatever we want to call them is none of them are workable in their current form. Pensions, 401k's, S.S./Medicare, etc. just won't do it anymore.

One of the fixes would be sound money whether we go back on a gold standard or at least abolish the fed and replace it with a better system. This would give the working person the ability to actually save for retirement something that is just not possible today.

It will also allow employers and the govt to put some money aside in some sort of lock box for a person to have at retirement.

We live in an inflationary, debt based monetary system where it's very design transfers wealth from those that don't know the system to those that do know it.

It's also a ponzi scheme which relies on newbies to pay for the old timers and today the western world and Japan have more old timers then newbies.

This explains why all the market turmoil and it's getting worse until we rethink it.

[IamOld]

Are you not receiving a entitlement yourself?

Exactly - first, entitlement is a "code word" by those who wish to take our benefits away from us. And but so what if it is an entitlement...aren't we entitled to a decent retirement in the "richest country on Earth?" This is NOT a question in other developed countries!

Also re Jefferson - Jefferson never said what the poster above says - http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/fdr...cial-security/ (Scroll down on page)

For one thing, the English is modern not 18th Cent English.

[jacko]

Are you not receiving a entitlement yourself?

I'm totally far from getting my facts from the media and commercials. FEMA is 20 billion in debt they had to transfer what was left in Joplin to help the flood victims. Like I said earlier if you do the research and not go by hear say then you'll see the true light.

If people really just watched some of Dr. Paul's debates and speech they will grab the true concept of what he's trying to do. He knows that he can't change the mindset of society wanting entitlements but he want to free up wasted spending like foreign policy and the Federal Res. so the money can stay where it belongs. It's really thinking 2 step above the normal and not focus on the tree branches of the problem because those will always come back in a different form however if we focus on the roots those problem can't come back.

Like Thomas Jefferson said, "A goverment big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."

[sguerra923]

Well, actually that's not really true - FEMA is not in "debt' any more than any gov't agency can be in debt. It's interesting that - frankly - a certain network and a certain political party talks about "Fraud" in agencies that actually help people, and not for example, the Pentagon. Please don't just listen to campaign commercials...

I'm totally far from getting my facts from the media and commercials. FEMA is 20 billion in debt they had to transfer what was left in Joplin to help the flood victims. Like I said earlier if you do the research and not go by hear say then you'll see the true light.

If people really just watched some of Dr. Paul's debates and speech they will grab the true concept of what he's trying to do. He knows that he can't change the mindset of society wanting entitlements but he want to free up wasted spending like foreign policy and the Federal Res. so the money can stay where it belongs. It's really thinking 2 step above the normal and not focus on the tree branches of the problem because those will always come back in a different form however if we focus on the roots those problem can't come back.

Like Thomas Jefferson said, "A goverment big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."

[IamOld]

Agreed!!!!!!

it seems they produced neither. At least they have produced no work for the workers and "thinkers" are rapidly disappearing.

[banca rotta]

That's the thing - the ruling economic class wants to turn out workers, not thinkers!!!

It seems they produced neither. At least they have produced no work for the workers and "thinkers" are rapidly disappearing.

[IamOld]

I know Shark that I could tell you that the major city near which I live - their schools are...horrible - but why - because of decades of intentional neglect, underfunding, and yes, incompetence.

Yet the school system where I live - and also the largest one in my state - is superb. Now - compared to say Germany (or even perhaps our common Eastern European homeland's schools) yes kids take math later, etc., but and however - my kids are learning subjects, taking classes, etc., that are rigorous and frankly would have been college material when I went to school. I think one of our problems as a nation is that there are HUGE discrepancies between school systems, and instead of pedagogs and yes academics, we look to banksters etc., as the "saviors" of the school system. When you have a committed and involved parent base AND!!! community, you will have great schools - when you don't - you won't.

You also said "As long as we teach kids that education is important solely for the purposes of finding a good job later in life, and not a goal of its own, we won't be able to break the vicious circle of fear, corruption and incompetence." A TRILLION PERCENT TRUE my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's the thing - the ruling economic class wants to turn out workers, not thinkers!!!

[shark66]

SOrry Shark you and I disagree rarely - but I've taught in high school and college - went through public schools myself, kids are in public schools, and there are many many very good ones!

It is the private sector the greed that I fear - that has now enveloped all public sectors to an extent...

Let me put it to you this way:

I'm a product of a combination of Eastern European and British public schools, with a Master's acquired in the U.S. I also hold two unrelated 4-year degrees: one from Eastern Europe (public university) and one from UK (private, gone belly up several years after I had graduated).

My wife is a product of U.S. public school system from yesteryear.

My kids attend public school.

The curriculum my kids are exposed to is nothing but a joke compared to one from the '70s when my wife was their age. Her curriculum was a sorry state of affairs compared to mine, and then some.

As long as we're teaching that social skills are more important than knowledge, we're in a hole.

As long as we allow political correctness to stand in the way of science, there's no hope for us.

As long as we teach kids that education is important solely for the purposes of finding a good job later in life, and not a goal of its own, we won't be able to break the vicious circle of fear, corruption and incompetence.

There's plenty of greed in the current school system. I've seen it with my own eyes, and had witnessed it in many meetings that I had attended. My lucky star is that I'm no more than a contractor who is able to negotiate his own terms. If they don't like the way I do business, I walk.

I've said "no" to numerous offers that implied kickbacks. As bankrupt as I may be, the ability to look at myself in the mirror is priceless...

Sheer math suggests that there are good public schools out there, by American standards... the problem being, those standards are nowhere near the bar that has been set as a norm by the rest of civilized world.

The public school system is downright horrible. It doesn't need fixing. It needs to be burned down and rebuilt from scratch.

My experiences and opinions only...

Good luck to us all.

[IamOld]

SOrry Shark you and I disagree rarely - but I've taught in high school and college - went through public schools myself, kids are in public schools, and there are many many very good ones!

It is the private sector the greed that I fear - that has now enveloped all public sectors to an extent...