Political Discussion

[Minnymouth]

I too saw "no fear" in Saddam's eye's...... Clearly the man was not afraid to die as he had killed others......He had come to grip with his "fate"!

His excutioners showed the "raw nerve" of justice being served, yet also showed their strong prejudice, lack of manhood, and proved they were no better than Saddam was when it came to "hanging" someone........

Basically they made a martyer (can't spell) out of Saddam on his death bed..... Saddam proved by his actions and comments that he was more of a man then his executioners were. His executioners not only hanged him but rejoiced in the actions of it....... Truely a mockery to justice being done!!!!

Saddam's hanging will not stop a civil war, but it may help one be more evident and add too it........

Our purpose of going to Iraq was to free the Nation of a tyrannt. This we have now accomplished and the death of Saddam freed Iraq of his rule.

Now its time for us to leave Iraq, let them establish their own form of govenment, fight their own battles, and establish the rule of law for their own Nation.

We do not any longer need to supply a "safety net" for them, let them fight out between themselves on "who is going to rule" and "how"........

All we are doing now is adding "fuel to a flame" and it's costing the lives of our fathers, husbands, sons and daughters.

Just my opinion today.................

[HRx]

I do agree with your position regarding the war in Iraq Minny. Bush is adament about sending more, and more troops to Iraq. The bottom line is, this strategy is going to fail the way all the previous strategies did. It has already been time to hand the ball over to Iraq, so that they can advance matters there in a fashion they deem fit for thier country. The primary reason, Bush was to remain in Iraq is occupation, and resource control.

[lrprn]

As a mother of an active Army son who is in Iraq right now, I agree with Minny and HRx. Bush is sadly misinformed if he thinks throwing more troops at a well-trained and growing terrorist army plus put them in the middle of a growing civil war is going to accomplish anything but give both sides more inexperienced targets to shoot at and bomb.

All we've accomplished in four years to give the terrorists years of practical experience against our troops allowing them to improve their attack tactics that much faster. I feel like I'm 20 years old again hearing Richard Nixon say "Peace with honor" and "We can't let our troops die in vain" while trying to find a way out of the Vietnam quagmire. Feels just as bad now with Bush saying the very same things about Iraq 35 years later.

[coma]

If you would've asked me a few years ago, I'd disagree with you and Minny, but as the wife of a combat vet (2 tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan), I wholehartedly agree. They took my husband. He's been wounded three times, and is most definitely not the same person I married, though I don't know how anyone can have all of these things happen to him and remain the same person. Now, I believe it's resource control, as you have said, and also a very expensive face-saving measure. Time to come home for good. We've got another tour coming up this summer, as if schrapnel in his head and leg aren't enough, we've got to risk it again...

[HRx]

If you would've asked me a few years ago, I'd disagree with you and Minny, but as the wife of a combat vet (2 tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan), I wholehartedly agree.

I personally think a large portion of American support for the continuing the war in Iraq is primarily an emotional/moral. In other words, Americans have been conditioned to believe that they "should" support the war, and that they will be "traitors", un-American" if they don't. This is the basically the "Follow-the-Leader" syndrome. There are many other ways of describing this mentality. But as Americans started to form thier own opinions, and gathered thier own facts--many have begun to realize that engaging in this war was the wrong action to take. The Bush adminstration, can re-stragetize the war plan, one millions times over, but the bottom-line is---they are SOL!!! They have created problem that will take decades to fix! Far to many lives have been lost over this erroneous war!

[coma]

I personally think a large portion of American support for the continuing the war in Iraq is primarily an emotional/moral. In other words, Americans have been conditioned to believe that they "should" support the war, and that they will be "traitors", un-American" if they don't. This is the basically the "Follow-the-Leader" syndrome. There are many other ways of describing this mentality. But as Americans started to form thier own opinions, and gathered thier own facts--many have begun to realize that engaging in this war was the wrong action to take. The Bush adminstration, can re-stragetize the war plan, one millions times over, but the bottom-line is---they are SOL!!! They have created problem that will take decades to fix! Far to many lives have been lost over this erroneous war!

I agree. As an army wife of a paratrooper and Ranger, it's almost against something unwritten to speak against it, but after what it's done to my husband and how it's affected my husband, I'm not ashamed to say I don't support it...the war, that is...I still support my husband and his soldiers.

[lilgoose]

Does any one really know the purpose of being in Iraq? How many times has Bush's excuse/reason changed to fit whatever the general public was questioning? He has changed more times than I can remember. One time it is because of mass destruction weapons....another time is was because THEY asked for freedom.....yet again, Bush said that the ist are a part of.....WHAT IS THE TRUTH????

Desert Storm was a war in which Saddam was the target....A friend that was in the Marines at that time had several chances "to take him out" but was denied the opportunity by the GOV'T. So, how can this be a reason for the Irag war?

What is this doing to the minds of our fellow Americans that are over there for months and months on end? They are missing the births of their children~what if this is the only child they can have and they have missed the miracle that God has given to them? They are missing their children's Christmas Choir Concerts, daily up and downs of school life. They are missing out on the times with the children that builds a life of trust and a bond with their parent that time may never be able to rebuild. It is all so worthless when you look at what is really lost here...It is the CHILDREN who are really paying the price for our president's indecisiveness.

Our 12 year old son is already afraid of Bush reinstating the Draft. 12 years old and afraid to be drafted into a war that doesn't seem to ever plan on ending! 5 years is long enough and over 3000 lives lost over a country that is to set in their ways to ever handle being a democracy and having the freedoms that we used to treasure every day.

While Bush is funding a war that we have no business being in, we have children without medical care and hot meals at supper time, and families who can't support themselves but are limited to a certain amount of time on state aid~some cases it isn't long enough as there are less and less jobs that pay enough to support a family on. Instead of sending more troops and money overseas, why not take that money and those same troops and put them to work on rebuilding New Orleans and all those places still affected by the natural diasters in the States???

Our economy is a mess, but let's send more and more money over to Iraq to rebuild what Bush has sent in our troups to help destroy! Makes sense to me!

[coma]

Does any one really know the purpose of being in Iraq? How many times has Bush's excuse/reason changed to fit whatever the general public was questioning? He has changed more times than I can remember. One time it is because of mass destruction weapons....another time is was because THEY asked for freedom.....yet again, Bush said that the ist are a part of.....WHAT IS THE TRUTH????

Desert Storm was a war in which Saddam was the target....A friend that was in the Marines at that time had several chances "to take him out" but was denied the opportunity by the GOV'T. So, how can this be a reason for the Irag war?

What is this doing to the minds of our fellow Americans that are over there for months and months on end? They are missing the births of their children~what if this is the only child they can have and they have missed the miracle that God has given to them? They are missing their children's Christmas Choir Concerts, daily up and downs of school life. They are missing out on the times with the children that builds a life of trust and a bond with their parent that time may never be able to rebuild. It is all so worthless when you look at what is really lost here...It is the CHILDREN who are really paying the price for our president's indecisiveness.

Our 12 year old son is already afraid of Bush reinstating the Draft. 12 years old and afraid to be drafted into a war that doesn't seem to ever plan on ending! 5 years is long enough and over 3000 lives lost over a country that is to set in their ways to ever handle being a democracy and having the freedoms that we used to treasure every day.

While Bush is funding a war that we have no business being in, we have children without medical care and hot meals at supper time, and families who can't support themselves but are limited to a certain amount of time on state aid~some cases it isn't long enough as there are less and less jobs that pay enough to support a family on. Instead of sending more troops and money overseas, why not take that money and those same troops and put them to work on rebuilding New Orleans and all those places still affected by the natural diasters in the States???

Our economy is a mess, but let's send more and more money over to Iraq to rebuild what Bush has sent in our troups to help destroy! Makes sense to me!

Children...I have a five year old who's dad has been in his life not quite two years because of this war. I have a husband who can't play football with him or take him to a baseball game because he has schrapnel in his leg, a head trauma that causes blinding migraines, and a fear of being in crowded places...

Spend the money at home?? Sure...it would be nice if we spent it here. New Orleans is nothing like the city in which I was married 8 years ago...it's nauseating...how about a larger than 2% pay raise for our soldiers? We're not well off, but there are lower enlisted guys on food stamps, STILL...

[lilgoose]

Breaks my heart to know that your situation is now an "Everyday Family Life" when it is so unnecessary!

I don't think that 2% is enough of a raise for what these people are living thru and the traumatic experience that has become everyday for them. There is not enough money to make up for what they are giving.

Best of wishes to your family and all the prayers be with you and your hubby!

The values and morals of this country are slipping so fast. It is scary to think what life will be like for our children when they become s.

[HRx]

I agree. As an army wife of a paratrooper and Ranger, it's almost against something unwritten to speak against it, but after what it's done to my husband and how it's affected my husband, I'm not ashamed to say I don't support it...the war, that is...I still support my husband and his soldiers.

I think supporting your husband, and troops in Iraq is the right thing to do. I'm myself an ex-Paratrooper, and Ranger. Last I read, the Bush adminstration plans on sending 20,000 more troops to Iraq!!

What makes me digusted over the war, is the sheer lack of quality, and ongoing post-war support that the goverment is investing on its war vets!! The lack of ongoing, medical, financial, etc care that the vets recieve she be criminal, because it's simply inadequate!

[onlineuse]

"Intelligent, Wise, and Experienced, Democratic leadership is much needed in Massachusetts right now. Patrick's background, and experience, will enable the state to propel itself, back into the healthy condition it once was in."

Hrx, MA is run by something like a 90-10 democratic majority and has been for more than half a century. The governor has very little actual power when there are virtually no seats held on either side of the aisle by republicans. The absolute worst economic times in my 5 decades on the planet existed during the wonderful halcyon days of non-other than Tank Commander Dukakis. Romney failed in many areas but if it were not for him the 17 BILLION dollar school building assistance program would STILL be slowly drowning the state. Most don't realize it's the largest debt on the States books, bigger than the big dig even, and it was allowed by democrats to become the #1 most expensive school building program in the country. WCVB in boston recently ran a story on this gem of management and how it is going to effectively strange us financially for decades to come. Dollar for dollar it is 17% more expensive to build a school in MA than any other state in the country. #2 down on the list by some 17% is California. Almost all of the 17% is accounted for by the requirement of union labor. Our former speaker of the house is now an admitted perjuror who just gave up his pension, job and all benefits because he accepted a deal to avoid jail and in turn admitted he lied under oath. He's likely going to lose his license to practice law as well. Prior to that we had Bulger who still can't see to find his top 10 FBI wanted brother. Money and power corrupt on both sides as the Foley situation shows. The last thing we need right here in MA is more of the same when a single town of 50,000 people just made the radio/news by passing a 200 million dollar tax override....4k per man, woman and child in a single town. How many people on this forum would be able to afford a single tax increase of say $1500 on a single family home like many in that town will now have? It's happened all over the state for some two decades and will continue to happen as we have to pay such extraordinary sums of money to the two biggest boondoggles in american history in the school building project and big dig (almost 30 billion combined debt the state must pay out of its operating budget). Massachusetts is a total mess right now and I am not sure there is a "way out" of the mess. We just owe so much money on these two items that it has to come in the form of crushing tax increases, or cuts in service. With our population stagnant and in real terms shrinking the burden is being shifted to those that stay. It's a bad situation when a 325k home costs $5k in taxes and it's only going to continue to get much worse. 10 to 1 that billion dollar deficit that Patrick suddenly found a few days ago is going to result in ---- higher taxes soon.

The problem I see with threads like these is the desire to BLAME someone. We must always have someone to point the finger at, someone to take the blame. So much time is spent in Washington on hearings to assess blame over this or that but only a small fraction of that time is spent trying to find a solution. We'd rather be able to put our heads down at night knowing whos fault it is than what the solution might be. This thread is a perfect example of that attitude.

In my mind "mission accomplished" was the capture of SH. Why we are still there now I'll never fully understand. Oil? We already have more oil than we can use and yet we are still paying higher prices at the pump. We've got a record warm winter and surging fuel stocks yet prices STILL went up. Big oil knows the democrats don't have the guts to take them on (although the pre-election talk was tough) which is why they are still jamming it to us even though oil prices hit 18 month lows today.

To those that say what we did in Iraq made no difference? The murdering savage is himself now dead, as are his rapist pig kids. It made a difference for the country and only history will tell us whether or not it made a difference in the region.

[HRx]

The problem I see with threads like these is the desire to BLAME someone. We must always have someone to point the finger at, someone to take the blame. So much time is spent in Washington on hearings to assess blame over this or that but only a small fraction of that time is spent trying to find a solution. We'd rather be able to put our heads down at night knowing whos fault it is than what the solution might be. This thread is a perfect example of that attitude.

This issue isn't about finger-pointing, or blaming. It's about accountability--and making the neccessary provisions to correct mistakes. That's where the problem lays.

[HRx]

New numbers just in, showing that the Iraq war costs U.S. (taxpayers) $357,000,000,000

[onlineuse]

HRX, I was more making a comment about Patrick being a fix for this State. I think he's an honest man much like Romney and we don't have to worry about him becoming a corrupt scumbag like so many others, but I do have to question how a guy that owes so much on his personal mortgages as he does is going to represent the average tax payer well. All he's going to do is raise our taxes and in the process only widen the gap between the haves and have nots in MA. This state is a mess and it's two biggest burdens I've already listed occured under total democratic party domination. This does not excuse the buck passing that went on under a previous republican governor (Celluci etc).

It was long ago time for us to get out of Iraq. I thought by any definition the mission was "accomplished" long ago. Certainly with the death of Saddam it's over. We are not the worlds policemen and can no longer afford to keep trying to be.

What I see here in MA right now is good people losing their homes because they can't afford 3k in tax increases over a 5 year period. Many are on fixed incomes, retired, veterans etc. My own parents are gradually being pushed to the point where there 6k a year tax burden on a 2 bedroom home will be too much. People reading this from other parts of the country probably can't fathom 6k in taxes on a 300k home, but that is where it is going in MA. For that you get to pay $500 per school sport per kid, an additional $200 per kid to use the bus, $300 for art class etc etc etc. Taxes are through the roof yet we must pay $500 for our kids to play baseball? Where's all the money go? --- > Teachers/Labor Unions ---> back to the deomcratic party at election time. It's no different than Bush and big oil.

One of my favorite politicians is Joe Lieberman. But, I could never vote for a ticket he's on because he was largely responsible for allowing credit card companies to charge whatever IR they wanted, and whatever late fees they wanted with legistlation he sponsored and supported about 8 years ago. There are few choices in this regard, we just have to realize none of these boobs are looking out for us most are corrupt, and almost ALL of them haven't worked a real day of work in decades.

[lilgoose]

War in Iraq + 5 years=1+ life lost per day 3000+ lives gone forever

Couple of questions......First, where is the money coming from to fund this war and the continuance of? Where did the foreign military personnel/people go to? Wasn't England/France involved in the beginning? What about the other countries in the UN that pledged to help also? Why is this the UNITED STATES/IRAQ war? Why are our troops and civilians (please don't forget those who volunteered to help also~yes the money is great pay~but they have offered up their lives also~no pay big enuf for that final momnet of "work") the only ones loosing their lives over another's freedom? IF Iraqians were wanting this "so-called freedom" so badly, then why are they not stepping up to the plate a little faster and with more desire to see it end positively?

Seems to me that Bush has offered to play care-taker and guardian to another country at the expense of our families here. I know that the Iraqians have helped, but after the "speech" last night, it sounds as if they have been given an ultimatum of either poo or get off the pot. Not being "open-ended" was something that I thought had already been given as a way to get them to start learning to defend themselves and yet a couple of years later, he has given it again......Is this the little boy who cried wolf?

Please, don't get me wrong...If I really felt in my heart that the Iraqian people could and would be able to withstand such a new country and gov't, I would be all for this ending in their favor. But, this is a country who has NEVER known another way of life. They are bordered by smaller countries who would rather play wild wild west than to shake hands and play nice in the sandbox. So, does this mean that there will ALSO be American Troops to help "serve and protect" their country?

What about the trillion dollar debt this country already faces? What part of our "senior benefits" are being cut even more? What part of our health care issues are being ignored, once again, so that tHIS war can be funded?

I applied for Social Security Disability almost 2 1/2 yrs ago. I finally had a hearing a short time ago. I was deemed disabled by the Hearing Judge. Now, after almost 2 1/2 yrs WAITING for a hearing date, I now have to wait up to SEVERAL months before I will even see my first disability check. Now, the only way to speed up this process is to 1) have our home go into foreclosure (can't happen as we are land contracting and it is in hubby's name) or 2) I have to become terminally ill to receive it faster. Gee, don't worry about the kids having food on the table, health care or dental care.....Let's not worry if they are staying warm or have clothing to cover their backs. We can just sit back and wait for our gov't to decide to get it's act together and put some effort into taking care of the crisis in our own country.

(By the way, this is not, for all those who will miss the point of the above and come back and tell me to "get a job", a cry for myself and the need of money, it was to reinforce the issues that our country has it's own problems and is sending money overseas without restructioning the departments within it's own four walls to help out it's own people. THAT WAS THE POINT)

Moms are told that we need to put our own needs first so that we may help others better. When we don't put our own needs first, we become out of shape, tired, run down and over-stressed and over-extended....Gee, does this sound like any one we know?????? Maybe the gov't should stop and think about the advice that sooooo many "experts" are willing to give moms.

The "Mother" of our Country is getting tired, out of shape, over-stressed and over-extended herself and needs to take care of her own needs before the needs of others can be effectively meet!

Really wish that our lives weren't coming down to all this negative impact it is bringing on our children and their children. This country will never be the same since Bush gave the okay almost 5 years ago.