Would you be upset if your husband did this?

[chpxiii]

JollyGG, one site for you:

http://www.gamingsucks.com/

[Flamingo]

Two Things...

After reading all the postings in this thread, there are two things that I failed to mention in my previous posting. First, you should look up the next meeting of Al Anon in your area and go. Al Anon is for the families of alcoholics. They can be of tremendous help to you as to the position you are in and give you some support and advice. Whether you realize it or not, you are an enabler in your relationship. I've been there; I know - you do everything to protect the person and your family life even though it is falling down all around you. There have been some excellent reply postings to you on here but the only person who can do anything about the situation is you...you need to make the next move before things get much worse. Please be strong and get the support you need before the control and abuse gets worse for you.

[Bandit]

Whether you realize it or not, you are an enabler in your relationship. I've been there; I know.

Yah, I have been there quite a few times & I know it also. At first I was thinking that this was not the case & hoping for the best but it does not take long to see all the warning signs when it comes to drugs & alcohol once you have been through it.

I just gave someone a free place to live for 5 months & he stayed sober the whole time, so I know very well they are able to do it. Less than one week after leaving he was wasted & missing a whole week of work at a time. I basicly just gave him 5 months in cases worth of free vodka & this was the second time I tried to help. His parents wont help & I will not be an enabler again for them.

I think a lot of people who have never been through it do not have a clue what can really happen & don't fully understand until 3 years after the fact in hindsight, then they will realize. That is how it was for me in my first relationship - I did not know what was happening or had happened until years after I left.

[boinga]

Life is what you let it be.

You sound like a great person, great education and career, good mother. You're letting this nut-job drag you down and waste your life. Do you really want to look back 20 years from now and say "this wasn't the life I ordered". Time to order the life you want.

Well said!

[Minnymouth]

Good debate Folks, view from both sides of the fence and all the aspects involved with problems communicating between spouses.

There are "honey-do" men and "what ever you say, darling" women in all relationships. Then there are the "My Way Only" relationships.... in which usually its the man that says "it's my way"...... but on the other hand there are also women that "rule the roost" so to speak.

Its hard for a relationship to be 50/50...... usually someone has to go a step further to make it work.

Lack of communication, understanding, thoughtfullness and just plain ole consideration for your spouse are often throwed aside over the years as we settle into our relationships.

Combining two lives from previous marriages/involving kids, can be one of the most difficult relationships to get the kinks out of. Its "my kids" and "your kids"......... You have to find a happy medium regarding the children. The kids have to see the parents as a "team".... if not..... you can have serious problems that get worse as time passes.

Living with a new spouse and learning all the "little things" we never knew before marriage is very hard. Often we feel like that "if they love me" they'll do it my way.... that is not so!!
Each person still has their own identity and way of doing things. Compromise has to come into play. If one party is not willing to discuss, solve, and compromise when it comes to problems that arise.... then your not going to have a happy, healthy relationship.

When folks marry, too many women loose their identity and too many men often feel trapped or smothered. Instead of keeping those emotions hidden from each other..... they need to be discussed.

A good healthy relationship, whether married or not, takes a lot of effort from both parties. Listening, understanding, patience, and the desire to have a happy relationship is something you have to work at continously. And it cannot be just one sided, cause one party feels used and becomes resentful.

I've heard men make the statement that "they own their wives" just like they own their cars, and that they had a peice of paper that said they did.

Well, where I come from women are not a peice of equipment!!! Though many will allow themselves to be treated as such....... What a shame...

Most men would NOT be married if they could get the house cleaned, their laundry done, meals on the table, a warm body next to them at nite, and have kids without having to pay child support.

And vise versa, many women would NOT be married if they could get someone to pay all the bills and support them in the style they want.... without having to cook, clean, accomadate and play housemother to a man and his offspring. There are many women who marry..... only to get supported so they don't have to work...

AND THEN, you actually have the men and women that are FAMILY orientated. Those that actually love and enjoy the "family life" share with a spouse that enjoys the same. Their goal is a happy family and shared lives (spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically). These are the ones that LIVE, LOVE AND ARE HAPPY.... TOGETHER!!!

You only go around once in life. It can be good, or it can be bad. The decisions are yours on which way your life will be.
No one is in a situation that they can't change if they really want too. No one MAKES them stay.... they are free to leave. Many don't because of the hardships it might cause them or how difficult it might be. Some stay just to honor a commitment they made, no matter how unhappy they are. Others stay just to get supported....

Life is too short to be unhappy and miserable. Nothing is forever and some things only last a short time and their over and gone.

Marriage is a commitment in all aspects. It should not be entered lightly and should be given lots of thought before you do. It has its good, its bad, its ugly. It can be full of rewards, love, and lots of happiness. But it takes two to make it work!!!

Good discussion folks, lots of different opinions and thoughts regarding this issue. Many sides to all stories, all type of marriages, etc.

Note: Drinking a beer does not make a man/woman an acoholic. You can abuse pepsi and coffee just the same. But when the drink or behavior from the drink interfers with your marriage, then its a problem.

[JollyGG]

I just have one more point then I will bow out of this discussion because my perspective is deffinately in the minority here.

Everyone is putting alot of weight on statements made in the midst of a heated argument. An argument that has been going on for days between two people who have probably never learned the rules of fair fighting. Of course he is saying assinie, stupid, arragont, pig headed, insane things. He is in an argument. From what the OP has said she has landed a few low blows herself. As far as I can see we are not talking about a normal conversation here.

I guess I'm just looking for more bad behavior, not just unfair fighting. She said that she doesn't go out on sat. because she enjoys cuddling in front of the tv with hubby. Does he enjoy that as well? Are the kids usually well taken care of? Did he fall asleep at the friends house or was he drinking that whole time? That hasn't been made clear to me.

Basically I'm not sure if this is two people who need to learn to communicate effectively, to fight fair, to comprimise and who are dealing with exess bagage from their pasts and their currently changed roles in life. Or is this really an abusive relationship.

Talk is cheap, actions speak. Words said in a long draw out fight when no one is fighting fair is not cause to pack your bags.

The reason lasting relationships last is because both people make a commitment to make it work. That means that if one or both people are unhappy, you need to figure out why and fix it. If your walk away from every relationship when the going gets tough then you never learn important relationship skills and no relationship will ever last. Are there relationships that are so unhealthy that no one should stay in them. Yes. An abusive relationship is one of those unhealthy relationships that no one should ever stay in. The important thing is to sort out the differnence between a realationship where you and your partner will do whatever you need to do to make it last and a relationship that is too broken to fix.

Additonally one night of drinking a few beers with buddies to unwind after a long week is not alcohol abuse. Getttin rip roaring drunk on a rare occasion is not alcohol abuse. I'm going to assume that the OP can recognize alcohol abuse and take nessary steps if her spouse does have a problem.

And now I'm done and I will bow out of this discussion.

[Minnymouth]

JollyGG,
I'm inclined to agree with you about the arguementative side of this relationship...... there are ALWAYS two sides to every conflict......

The poster has been given many examples of different types of relationships, different problems that arise, and suggestions of actions they can take to help resolve the problems.

Yet nevertheless, the decision is up to the poster, the actions they need to take to solve their problem....

I too feel its time to bow-out of this conversation.......

[Bandit]

I have a question.

Who is driving the stay at home dad back home, after his night out of drinking & time away from family? Is there a cab or responsible friend driving?

One little intoxicated slip on the road over .08, is all it takes for the public & the law to have something to say.

[9877donna]

So sorry this is happening to you.....

My husband goes out every Friday night to his best friends house. He leaves our house between 7 and 8pm and stays till around 2-2:30am. He drinks while he's there.

I go nowhere as I have an infant at home that can't be left alone and we have no money to pay a babysitter to have someone watch her anyway. I don't ever go out without him for various reasons one being that the other weekend night that we are home (Saturday nights), I like to spend it with him watching a movie or just hanging out together. I guess I could conceivably go out on that night without him if I chose to. But then we'd lose our time together.

Last night he went out and stayed out until 5:30am. When he got home I was just getting up to get ready for work and he reeked of alcohol. AND - to top it all off, I had to leave the house at 7am to go to work for some overtime so that we can afford xmas gifts for the 4 kids we have. (he's a stay at home Dad)

I got a little worried about leaving the baby with him but he said he'd be up when I had to leave (which mind you, was only an hour and a half away). I got in the shower, did my thing and when I went to wake him up he wouldn't get out of bed. I already got the baby up (she wakes around 630am) and got her all dressed. She was just waiting for him to give her her bottle. I asked him to get up and out of bed b/c there has been many occassions where he will sleep through her screaming (we've had arguments about it in the past) so I was hesitant to just leave him alone with her after a night of drinking and literally 1 and a half hours of sleep. He finally got up (made me late for work waiting on him) and was VERY ANGRY at me for making him get out of bed. He said he was up and that I should just go to work. In good conscience for the baby's sake, I just couldn't force myself to do that.

He made me feel so awful about the whole situation. Like I have no reason to be worried about him caring for the baby with no sleep and hung over. He says there are plenty of mornings that he gets no sleep and I was like, well, not after a night of drinking! So now he's mad at me, I'm at work and I'm just so lost right now.

Would you be mad if you were in my situation? I know this whole weekend is shot now b/c he holds grudges and won't talk to me until *I* apologize to him.

UGH. Life just sucks sometimes.

Life doesn't suck but the way your husband is acting does.Tell him to shape up or ship out!! Before something serious happens...
Hugs to you and your children.

P.S. You got rid of your bills when they were bringing you down.
Don't hesitate to get rid of your husband too!!

[EZDUZIT449]

The Writing is on the Wall

Most of you here are in denial to whats going on.here. Offering help, advice or how relationships should be,,,,,,is of no value when dealing with an alcoholic and on xanax,,which probably makes him an addict to.

He is a classic case, and some mentioned that a drink now and then on the week-ends does not make him an alcoholic. If you read back thru the posts, he has done everything or wont do everything under the sun short of physical abuse.

There is absolutely nothing that can be done when dealing with a man like this. You can talk,,baragin,,and deal with the devil untill your blue in the face and it all amounts to nothing but more of the same.

Ths best advice so far that I have read is you need to get to Alanon, like Yesterday. You will find the support and help you need to start coming out of denial and get your children the help they need.

Stop writing all the long details of how you are daily wrangeling around with this man,,,and seek help and let us know how your meetings are going in Alanon.

Get out of the problem and into the solution.

You are risking a major tragedy to your family. I can guarantee you, it will come. Its just a matter of when.

You have described a very very sick person, who with out help is going to get progressively worse.

I left an acloholic 23 years ago when my children were 3 and 4. It was not untill my children were in danger (such as the drunkeness),,, and him taking care of the children and something bad happended to my son that I finaly left. Had I left when the first bull shit started I would of been 3 months pregnant with my first child.

But then again that was 23 years ago. Today there is no excuse. There is enough help in every community and the stigma is not half what it use it to be. Alot of help is out there about the eduaction of Alcoholism, Addiction and Co-Dependency.

The writing is on the wall and it does not get any clearer than your postings.

Go back and read all of your posts and then tell us if you were me what would you tell me. To try and find a better way to communicate,,,ect,,ect <NOT>,,,

Short of brutal honesty,,all of those children need to be out of that enviorement immediatly. The red flags are waving a bomb in front of your face and you are trying to figure out how you can stay for your sake not for the concern of your children.

[EZDUZIT449]

ALANON, ALATEEN , ALATOT

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/

(800)4AL-ANON

[nazstar]

Hmmmm. I'm late to this post, but had to contribute. I am on my second marriage. My first husband used me to get his second masters degree, keep his house clean, and support him through the his program. When he graduated, he was apparently done with me. My second husband was a recovering alcoholic when I met him (he didn't drink). Since then, he's had a few episodes of falling off the wagon and always apologized. He's not violent or aggressive when he drinks, just kinda passes out. When we had our daughter, I was worried about him being a stay at home dad. But that hasn't been an issue.

We DID have an issue whereby he went to a local hotel/casino to use our free play coupons. While there, he drank to the point he couldn't drive home - but he never says that. He texts me to tell me that they comp'ed a room and I should bring the baby and we could have a little mini-vacation for free. So, I pile her in the car (unaware he was drunk) and drive there. As soon as I enter the room, it was obvious to me he was intoxicated. I stayed with my daughter all night - slept in the king sized bed with her and made him sleep on the floor as I was terrified he would roll over on her. I didn't let him hold her, feed her, change her, nothing. He kept telling me he was okay but was standing there swaying on his feet. Our daughter is his pride and joy and after being "banned" from her until he sobered up, it seemed to have the effect of scaring him straight. He knows that I will stand up for her and there is no way on God's green earth he is getting passed a mother protecting her baby. If I had let it go, I would have been uneasy all night and there would have been no consequence for his bad behavior - I would have been rolling over and ignoring my gut.

I can't make an alcoholic stop drinking. It's not a matter of me being supportive or understanding, or loving him enough. He has to come to that decision on his own. In this case, it just happened that me getting between him and his daughter was the motivation he needed to straighten out. My actions were not to stop his behavior, only to protect my daughter. I'm just lucky they had a secondary reaction.

My point is that you are the mother and if the father can't be responsible, it falls to you. If you really think your child is in danger, then go with your intinct. I'd rather get my husband riled at me than see harm come to my children, knowing that I could have stopped it. You mentioned that he tried to get in your face but it didn't work because you "aren't afraid of being hit". That should never enter the equation!!

I know there are 2 sides of every story and no one is a saint. But if you are of sound mind (ie: you're not having paranoid delusions), and you honestly believe you or your children are in danger (emotionally, physically, mentally), then you need to take action - whatever that is. I won't even comment on the other stuff - unequal division of household chores, etc. That's all fixable via communication but you have bigger fish to worry about right now.

[Minnymouth]

Drinking beer/liquor does not make you an alcoholic...... THE ABUSE OF IT DOES......... Lots of folks drink often and live happy, normal lives in happy marriages. Many are social drinkers...

BUT the combination of beer/liquor/meds is a deadly combination. The side effects of the mixture not only alters the mind, but also the minds ability to be reasonable and think clearly.

Our poster does not state that drinking is a daily thing or not? Nor does she state that there is verbal/physical abuse? She only states that this past Fri night - he stayed out late, drank, took meds, and did not have time to sleep before having to take care of children. When confronted, he became arrogrant and pig headed.....

Is drinking a daily habit along with the meds? If so, she has serious issues to deal with...... Alanon can help her cope, if she plans on staying in this marriage. She may have to make the decision to get out of the marriage when it comes to the "best life" for her children.

Sad part is if he's a stubborn man, a "his way" man, who doesn't think he has a problem...... she's beating her head against a brick wall....

Some men/women cannot drink at all..... they become Jeckle and Hyde.... Some of the nicest, loving,family men/women you would ever want to meet turn into "beast" when they hit the bottle and even worse if its mixed with meds. They hate themselves when they get in that condition, but can't help themselves. They are TRUE ALCOHOLICS..... they have a DISEASE. And some alcoholics "live" for that drink at the end of the day!!! But they can't stop with just one! They have to consume the whole bottle or pass out one......

There are many type of drinkers:
socialable (parties only)
daily or occasionally (a drink to unwind)
weekend - (only drink on weekends)
full blown aloholics(drink from dusk to dusk or till they pass out) or often drink till it's time to go to work and then start again right after work.

Their behavior can vary:
Some bother no one, quiet, drink, sleep it off
Some are verbally abusive..... with mood swings.
Some are both verbal and physically abusive with mood swings.
Some go into an acoholic rage and are very dangerous.

Some alcoholics will except help, many won't!! They don't see it as a disease, or a habit......

Spouses and families of alcoholics try to deal with the issues to keep the home together. Often that's not possible. Some people can live with alcoholics..... some can't deal with it or won't!

Many support groups help families deal with the issues, but if the alcoholic themselves don't see a "problem" - they are basically wasting their effort and time. Support groups often help or suggest ways for families to cope or get out of the relationships and how to protect their children.

This posters spouse may be a loving, family man all the time EXCEPT when he goes out drinking. Remember she leaves all the children in his care all week long while she works........

And then again he may be a "macho man" who is dominating, demanding, and believes the only purpose a woman serves is to "cook, clean, scrub, and screw"......... No discussing anything - "his way" or else!! HE IS THE RULER OF THE HOME!

Also we don't know both sides of the issue. She may be a very verbal, up in your face spouse...... who often criticizes, etc.

But basically, her concern is she KNOWS there is a problem, she's concerned about the care of the children when he is in this state of mind and no sleep, and wants to try to resolve the issue.

Also she does not state her age or his. This may be a very young couple who have a lot of issues they cannot deal with..... 2nd marriage, combined households/kids etc......

We don't know that he is an alcoholic, but his drinking has turned into an issue where the care of the kids are concerned. And this is an issue that needs to be corrected for the safety of the children. Otherwise she needs to make other arrangements for someone to care for the children.

All we can do is offer suggestions, groups that can help her cope and help her make decisions about her situation.

We can offer her moral support and a shoulder to cry on when needed.

Only she knows the dangers involved, what she can handle or wants to handle in this relationship and whether she considers it worthwhile to stay and try to work it out.

The major decisions are hers...........

[Minnymouth]

I've noticed that many of the responders of this thread are:

1. folks who have either been in relationships with an alcoholic
2. medical/social services who see the repercussions of alcohol
3. children of alcoholics
4. or possible alcoholics themselves - now reformed
5. folks who are socialable drinkers
6. folks who are non drinkers

Its a broad band of knowledge, suggestions, ideas, and possible solutions to someone in this situation.

This has been a good debate and I hope it has opened doors and the eyes of any reader who is in this situation or similar situations.

[rilbrianne]

I have to disagree with JollyGG, about the fact that these things are coming out of a heated argument... which may or may not be true and he may not be physically abusing her but he thinks little of her. He has no respect for her.

The fact that he sits at home and makes her work and do all the household chores while he feels deserving of a night out with the boys every Friday (not to mention his irresponsibility regarding the children on Saturday)... that's not just a heated argument. That's a lifestyle she has had to put up with.

His kid belittles her, he belittles her by telling her " I don't care what you say, I'm going out every Friday". He needs to be understanding of her needs... I know sounds feminine... but it's true. She does everything and HE deserves a night out every week?! He is obviously showing that he doesn't care about her needs (as shown in above paragraph) and he doesn't care about the needs of the kids ( or he wouldn't be teaching them to make fun and laugh at their mother/stepmother and he wouldn't allow himself to stay out drunk until 6AM knowing he is the parent while mom's at work the next day.).

Enough said, I think that's reason enough to leave him. Like I said before, that is an awful lot for one person to try and change.