Rising Gas Prices

[shark66]

Where do you live that you have to have a 4X4? I do just fine with my compact front wheel drive in New Hampshire. I drove 60 miles today in a snow storm without 4 wheel drive thanks to the snow plows.

I live on a top of the mountain (literally) in a dirt-poor county that doesn't have money (or at least claims so) to plow the roads before I leave in the morning (4-4.30am).

Prior to the majority of people moving out of this neck of the woods, the roads were plowed regularly and I could get away with driving a Jetta. No more. I'm not a truck buff by any means, but I have to get to work in order to feed my family. In any weather. And ski resorts around here have had a great year......or two...hence the 4x4...

As for the Prius--I have lots of friends who love it and are especially happy they own it when gas prices rise.

I come from the world where any car with an engine bigger than 2.0L was subject to an absolutely insane amount of taxes, so I'm no stranger to small, fuel-efficient vehicles. My daily driver for many years was a tiny Citroen which was getting 50mpg two decades ago...but it was not sluggish, which I feel Prius is. To each his/hers own...

Ligan

Good luck to us all.

[Logan]

I had an opportunity to drive a Toyota Prius for several weeks two years ago and was VERY unimpressed. One sluggish vehicle. Even in city traffic. There's got to be a better concept than that...hydrogen, fuel cells...whatever. If I needed a small vehicle to get around town Prius would never make the cut. Ford Fiesta or Golf TDi most certainly would.

Where I live a 4x4 is a necessity and since I can't afford an eco-friendly Touareg TDi or G-series Benz, I'll be driving an UAW-mass-produced-gas-guzzler that gets me through the snow and ice...at least until someone, somewhere, comes up with a reasonably priced all-wheel-drive vehicle that doesn't run on fossil fuels...

While we're at it, paid $3.35 for a gallon of regular this morning...getting better all the time...

Good luck to us all.

Where do you live that you have to have a 4X4? I do just fine with my compact front wheel drive in New Hampshire. I drove 60 miles today in a snow storm without 4 wheel drive thanks to the snow plows.
As for the Prius--I have lots of friends who love it and are especially happy they own it when gas prices rise.

Ligan

[HHM]

Based on current average utility rates, gas would need to be $6.00 per gallon to make an electric vehicle cost effective.

Also, with the pure electric vehicles, the batter life span is about 8 years, so you would need to buy a whole new batter pack (my understanding is that the price of the Chevy Volt contemplates replacement of the battery pack).

[shark66]

A Hybrid on the other hand is something I would consider if I was in the market.

Logan

I had an opportunity to drive a Toyota Prius for several weeks two years ago and was VERY unimpressed. One sluggish vehicle. Even in city traffic. There's got to be a better concept than that...hydrogen, fuel cells...whatever. If I needed a small vehicle to get around town Prius would never make the cut. Ford Fiesta or Golf TDi most certainly would.

Where I live a 4x4 is a necessity and since I can't afford an eco-friendly Touareg TDi or G-series Benz, I'll be driving an UAW-mass-produced-gas-guzzler that gets me through the snow and ice...at least until someone, somewhere, comes up with a reasonably priced all-wheel-drive vehicle that doesn't run on fossil fuels...

While we're at it, paid $3.35 for a gallon of regular this morning...getting better all the time...

Good luck to us all.

[RichM]

I haven't really figured out the whole concept of an electric vehicle since it too uses expensive fossil fuels.

I am not saying they are bad I just don't see how they save money, oil and will clean the environment unless they have solar panels on the roof.

The design of combustion engine-powered vehicles is such that they burn fuel even when the vehicle is decelerating or standing still. The most fuel is burned during acceleration, followed by sustained high-speed operation, as the engine is constantly called upon to produce energy to overcome the forces tending to slow the vehicle down (mainly friction, wind resistance, and gravity while climbing an incline). Electric cars also burn the most juice while accelerating, but little while decelerating, and virtually none while standing still (except for electricity used to power accessories).

There also are certain specific technologies that make the use of electricity more efficient than the use of combustion to power land vehicles. These technologies work because electricity happens to be a very convenient medium for the generation and storage of energy.

For example, when decelerating and braking, tremendous energy is wasted (converted into heat) as the brake pads slow the motion of the wheels. But it is possible, on an electric car, to generate power when braking by using the car's momentum, as expressed through the spinning wheels, as a source of rotational energy to power a generator to recharge the battery. In practice, the generator is often the same motor that powers the vehicle. It becomes a generator during deceleration.

Nonetheless, all electric vehicles require some source of electricity, and as you point out, the predominant source of electricity in this country is fossil-fueled generating plants, followed by nuclear power. Other technologies such as wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, and so forth are on the horizon, but all told represent only a small fraction of total generating capacity.

Personally, I favor aggressive construction of nuclear power plants as an interim measure until safer, renewable sources are ready for prime time. Yes, there are problems with nuclear, most notably the waste issues. But we can manage those problems for another 20 to 40 years, while developing cleaner, safer alternatives.

Aggressive construction of nuclear power plants is the only technology that could make widespread use of electric vehicles (as well as electric heat for buildings, electric power for heat-intensive industrial processes, and so forth) a reality within the next three to five years -- which is about how long it takes to get a nuclear plant online if you strip away the red tape.

-Rich

[banca rotta]

The cheapest for regular unleaded is $3.11 but the average price is $3.30 for regular unleaded. The way the gas prices keep increasing the economy will be stagnate and grow at a snails paces for decades and the cost of everything else will raise to fast as well.

I know. I have been saying for a year now that unfortunately this depression is an inflationary one as opposed to the 1930's deflationary depression our grand parents had to endure.

[banca rotta]

I agree. I will never buy a pure gas engine vehicle again unless it's a TDI. I would be interested in an electric vehicle once the batteries improve but right now for me it is not practical since I have to drive once a week to a location that would put the car out of range on a round trip. A Hybrid on the other hand is something I would consider if I was in the market.

Logan

I haven't really figured out the whole concept of an electric vehicle since it too uses expensive fossil fuels.

I am not saying they are bad I just don't see how they save money, oil and will clean the environment unless they have solar panels on the roof.

[HRx]

The cheapest for regular unleaded is $3.11 but the average price is $3.30 for regular unleaded. The way the gas prices keep increasing the economy will be stagnate and grow at a snails paces for decades and the cost of everything else will raise to fast as well.

[tobee43]

I agree. I will never buy a pure gas engine vehicle again unless it's a TDI. I would be interested in an electric vehicle once the batteries improve but right now for me it is not practical since I have to drive once a week to a location that would put the car out of range on a round trip. A Hybrid on the other hand is something I would consider if I was in the market.

Logan

i as well, agree....and our next car will be a hybrid.....or we are going to attempt to grow wings....

[Logan]

Read yesterday that gas would have to reach $6.00/gal to justify purchasing the now available electric vehicles. The inital cost of these ev's are high. Even with the tax incentives. You can buy a lot of fuel for $10,000 + (the price over the cost of a comparable conventional fuel vehicle). Over the life of a gasser the cost of operation will not be greater than the ev cost of operation plus the purchase price. I like othe idea of alternative fueled vehicles, but the ev's on the market today are just not refined enough. New technology has to go through growth and improvement phases to be perfected. We are moving in the right direction, but as long as the oil giants have their stranglehold, this country will not see an expansion of alternative fuel technology emerging.

I agree. I will never buy a pure gas engine vehicle again unless it's a TDI. I would be interested in an electric vehicle once the batteries improve but right now for me it is not practical since I have to drive once a week to a location that would put the car out of range on a round trip. A Hybrid on the other hand is something I would consider if I was in the market.

Logan

[andy158]

Read yesterday that gas would have to reach $6.00/gal to justify purchasing the now available electric vehicles. The inital cost of these ev's are high. Even with the tax incentives. You can buy a lot of fuel for $10,000 + (the price over the cost of a comparable conventional fuel vehicle). Over the life of a gasser the cost of operation will not be greater than the ev cost of operation plus the purchase price. I like othe idea of alternative fueled vehicles, but the ev's on the market today are just not refined enough. New technology has to go through growth and improvement phases to be perfected. We are moving in the right direction, but as long as the oil giants have their stranglehold, this country will not see an expansion of alternative fuel technology emerging.

[momofthree]

UGH, I had to pay $3.89/gallon for the cheap stuff yesterday. This is CRAZY!

[Logan]

I think your right, $4.00 right now seems to be the cut off (of course, they said that about $2.00 10+ years ago). One I thing I found interesting in researching electric cars, gas would need to be $6.00 per gallon to make them cost effective (assuming the price per kwh of electricity stays the same). When you factor in the price premium for an electric car vs a high MPG counter part (like Honda Fit, Ford Fiesta etc), and the cost to actually recharge the electric vehicle, the investment only starts making financial sense when gas reaches $6.00+ per gallon, otherwise, you are better off with a high MPG gasoline vehicle.

Here's a cost comparison to input your own numbers.

http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV/cost.php

Also, a tax credit will likely offset the cost of an electric vehicle versus gas.

[tobee43]

it may be time to open up OUR USA reserve of oil to help us poor folk through this mess....

first it's higher oil prices because of Egypt
ok first we hear it's because of Libiya....

then it's the Suez Canal...tranferring down the oil during all the unrest......

tomorrow it's going to be because someone stubbed their toe on an oil drill...what?? only here in the usa don't we take to the streets...(much like we did in the 60's ) and say NO MORE!!!

(and while i don't what pies thrown in my face......good ole bush most likely made trillions on the oil flow during his time)....

no one really knows anymore who sets these prices...it's not necessarily the "oil" companies....:

Libya turmoil prompts oil surge, hits equities| Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:30pm EST

LONDON (Reuters) - "Oil prices charged to fresh 2-1/2 year highs on Monday as traders reacted to increasing violence in major producer Libya, which fed investor fears about rising inflation and unsettled other markets.

Globally, equities were lower but U.S. markets were closed for a holiday.

European equities lost more than 1 percent on a combination of uncertainty over the future of the oil price, increasing signs that higher interest rates may be coming and more evidence of a surprisingly poor earnings season.

Together, the worries overshadowed reports of solid European economic growth.

Gold powered to its highest levels in seven weeks, above $1,400 an ounce, helped along by both inflation fears and risk aversion.

Protests broke out in the Libyan capital Tripoli for the first time following days of unrest in the city of Benghazi and some army units defected to the opposition in what has become one of the bloodiest revolts to convulse the Arab world.

Financial markets are particularly sensitive to the violence in Libya because it exports around 1.1 million barrels per day of crude.

Brent crude gained $2.50 a barrel to hit a new 2-1/2 year high above $105.

Rising oil prices feed into inflation, one of the main current concerns of investors, who are otherwise in a generally bullish mood on expectations that the global economic recovery is now sustainable.

"The situation in Libya looks pretty bad and we're seeing safe-haven flows on the back of that," said Alan McQuaid, chief economist at Bloxham Stockbrokers in Dublin.

MSCI's all-country world stock index was down 0.3 percent and the FTSEurofirst 300 closed down 1.3 percent.

The European weakness came despite euro zone manufacturing data above consensus and the strongest Ifo sentiment data out of Germany since reunification.

European stocks have been hit by mixed earnings. Thomson Reuters Proprietary Research reported on Monday that the number of European companies missing fourth quarter expectations is outpacing those beating them.

The earnings growth rate, actual and predicted, for the STOXX 600 is 18.9 percent, compared with a December estimate of 36.1 percent.

Shares in Carlsberg, for example, fell on Monday after the brewer posted a surprise fall in fourth-quarter operating profit.

EURO WAVERS

The euro slipped as the rising tensions in the Middle East dented risk sentiment.

But it earlier hit its highest level in more than 10 days against a background of hawkish comments from European Central Bank officials that added to expectations a rise in interest rates is on the way this year.

The common currency was trading at $1.3670, down around 0.1 percent on the day. It rose to $1.3727 earlier in the session, the highest since February 10, extending a rise on Friday that was also related to comments from an ECB Executive Board member.

With an Irish election on Friday likely to put in power a party which is openly calling for a renegotiation of its EU bailout agreement, strategists say there is a risk that the euro could come under pressure.

Euro zone policymakers are also struggling toward a more comprehensive package that they hope can put an end to debt troubles.

"With neither the core nor the periphery signaling willingness to find a compromise on the issues for now, the chances are that potential political impasses could erode euro sentiment going forward," said Valentin Marinov, strategist at Citi FX.

Core euro zone bond yields were lower as investors bought safer assets in the face of the Middle East and North Africa events."

moving on........


"oil prices today who sets prices"


Fri, Feb 25 2011

WRAPUP 2-Fed officials play down oil price risks

NEW YORK, Feb 25 (Reuters) - "The Federal Reserve would react to higher oil prices only if the increases spilled over into broader areas, officials of the U.S. central bank said on Friday, with one policy maker calling the risks "manageable."

In a similar vein, an official of the European Central Bank said policy makers should be wary of responding too soon to the recent jump in oil prices as it may be fleeting.

Oil prices have risen as political tensions in the Middle East and North Africa have raised fears that the unrest could spread to other major oil-producing countries, stoking fears of even higher fuel prices and inflation risks around the world.

The president of the Richmond Federal Reserve Bank, Jeffrey Lacker, took a calm view of the potential threats to the U.S. economy from the higher oil prices, though he said they could prove nettlesome if they jump much more or create an inflationary psychology.

"I think the oil price rises we've seen so far don't pose a risk to the recovery," he told reporters after a speech on regulation.

"Oil price changes could have the potential, if they were very large, for slowing the recovery, but we have a lot of experience and a lot of data on past instances, and I think it's a manageable risk," he said at a conference organized by the University of Chicago's Booth School of Business.

Janet Yellen, the Fed's vice chair, said U.S. central bank officials would react if inflation expectations or underlying inflation show persistent gains and began to be reflected in other prices.

"Any increase that would seem to be sustained in inflation expectations, or in core inflation, that looked like it were getting passed through and it was sustained, would ... demand a response," said Yellen, who is viewed as among the strongest proponents of aggressive measures to support the economic recovery.

Yellen, who also spoke at the conference organized by the Booth School of Business, has a permanent vote on the Fed's interest-rate setting panel and her position is seen as close to the consensus view at the institution.

Lacker said there is a danger that prices that are uppermost in consumers' minds -- such as retail gasoline prices -- could spur fears of wider inflation, which ultimately could push prices up.

A rise in inflation expectations can be self-fulfilling if it leads businesses to raise prices and workers to demand higher wages. However, with the U.S. unemployment rate at 9 percent, many Fed officials do not see much scope for wage increases.

An official from the European Central Bank said policy makers should be wary of responding too soon to the recent jump in oil prices.

"It depends very much if it is temporary or not, which means monetary policy does not respond immediately to such a supply shock, nor should it," Vitor Constancio, the ECB's vice president, said in response to questions at the Booth School conference.

Currently, it appears unlikely that oil price rises will pass through to wages, he said, though he cautioned that central banks must be vigilant about inflation and be willing to act if necessary.

"We cannot allow inflation to be embedded in the economy," he said.

SUSTAINED RISE DEMANDS RESPONSE

Some Fed policy makers have suggested it might be time to reduce or taper off the central bank's $600 billion bond-buying program in light of a strengthening recovery, but others feel higher oil prices could create headwinds to the recovery.

Oil prices LCOc1 retreated from 2-1/2-year peaks of almost $120 a barrel hit in London on Thursday to hover below $112 on Friday on Saudi efforts to plug supply gaps.

Yellen said the Fed's long-term commitment to loose financial conditions will shift when the time comes for the central bank to withdraw its support for the U.S. economy.

"Once the recovery is well established and the appropriate time for beginning to firm the stance of policy appears to be drawing near, the (Fed) will naturally need to adjust its 'extended period' guidance and develop an alternative communications strategy," she said.

One of the most committed skeptics of the Fed's easing policies, Kansas City Fed President Thomas Hoenig, also played down the risk that oil prices would derail the U.S. recovery.

"It's a matter of whether it is a permanent factor. I don't think that it is right now," he said in an interview on CNBC.

However, an official from the Bank of England warned that policy makers should not be complacent if core measures of inflation that strip out volatile energy and food costs are low.

"If say, you have an oil price shock ... and that does lead to inflation expectations moving up, pay growth moving up, significant second-round effects being embedded and so forth, what would happen, of course, in the medium term is core inflation would move up to the headline inflation, not the other way around," BoE Deputy Governor Charles Bean said at the same conference.

Policy makers must look carefully beyond core inflation for second-round effects of overall inflation to see if there are any forces driving up wages, he said"



GREEDY BUSINESS......that's who!!!!!!

[WhatMoney]

Good thing I filled up Wednesday because today it was 3.49 - up 20 cents in 2 days. I think Americans are awake, it's congress - and all those folks who have plenty of money who are asleep. Or trying to get rid of lower and middle class and just have the upper echelon.

Congress can't do much about the price of gasoline - it's determined by the oil companies who refine and sell it. The Republicans will never say a word about rising gas prices - it's just more money in their campaign coffers. And it's not the lower class they are trying to get rid of - they are just pushing the middle class into the lower class. There was little so-called middle class before World War II, just the rich and the poor. You know, the "good old days" 70 years ago some here so long to return to. We are heading there again, ever heard of the robber barons? And the stupid voters continue to accelerate the process by electing tea baggers, the drones of the corporate corrupt.