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Is President Obama Our Savior?

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    #16
    Wikipedia on Weimar Republic

    Economic problems
    Main article: Great Depression in Central Europe
    The Weimar Republic had some of the most serious economic problems ever experienced by any Western democracy in history. Rampant hyperinflation, massive unemployment and a large drop in living standards were primary factors. In 1923-29 there was a short period of economic recovery, but the Great Depression of the 1930s led to a worldwide recession. Germany was particularly affected because it depended heavily on American loans. In 1926, about 2 million Germans were unemployed - this rose to around 6 million in 1932. Many blamed the Weimar Republic. This was made apparent when political parties on both right and left wanting to disband the Republic altogether made any democratic majority in Parliament impossible.

    The Weimar Republic was severely affected by the Great Depression triggered by the Wall Street Crash of 1929. The crash and subsequent economic stagnation led to increased demands on Germany to repay the debts owed to the United States. As the Weimar Republic was very fragile in all of its existence, the depression proved to be devastating, and played a major role in the NSDAP's takeover.

    The Treaty of Versailles was considered by most Germans to be a punishing and degrading document because it forced them to surrender resource-rich areas and pay massive amounts of compensation. These punitive reparations caused consternation and resentment, although the actual economic damage resulting from the Treaty of Versailles is difficult to determine. While the official reparations were considerable, Germany ended up paying only a fraction of them. However, the reparations did damage Germany's economy by discouraging market loans, which forced the Weimar government to finance its deficit by printing more money, causing rampant hyperinflation. In addition, the rapid disintegration of Germany in 1919, due to the return of a disillusioned army, the rapid change from possible victory in 1918 to defeat in 1919, and the political chaos may have caused a psychological imprint on Germans that could lead to extreme nationalism, shown by Hitler.

    Most historians agree that many industrial leaders identified the Weimar Republic with labour unions and with the Social Democrats, who had established the Versailles concessions of 1918/1919. Although some did see Hitler as a means to abolish the latter, the Republic was already unstable before any industry leaders were supporting Hitler. Even those who supported Hitler's appointment often did not want Nazism in its entirety and considered Hitler a temporary solution in their efforts to abolish the Republic. Industry support alone cannot explain Hitler's enthusiastic support by large segments of the population, including many workers who had turned away from the left.

    Comment


      #17


      Exactly!

      We all are blessed to live in the United States and have the freedom where we can "agree to disagree".

      In my opinion, it is irrelevant at this point, who I voted for or against. A new President was sworn in on Tuesday and I have respect for the position. I hope he is granted wisdom to lead our country in the right direction.
      Chapter 7 filed 10/21/2008
      341 - 11/26 went smooth NO ASSET
      Took 115 days after 341 - But Finally DISCHARGED 3/25/09

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Kansas1960 View Post
        Economic problems
        Main article: Great Depression in Central Europe
        The Weimar Republic had some of the most serious economic problems ever experienced by any Western democracy in history. Rampant hyperinflation, massive unemployment and a large drop in living standards were primary factors. In 1923-29 there was a short period of economic recovery, but the Great Depression of the 1930s led to a worldwide recession. Germany was particularly affected because it depended heavily on American loans. In 1926, about 2 million Germans were unemployed - this rose to around 6 million in 1932. Many blamed the Weimar Republic. This was made apparent when political parties on both right and left wanting to disband the Republic altogether made any democratic majority in Parliament impossible.

        The Weimar Republic was severely affected by the Great Depression triggered by the Wall Street Crash of 1929. The crash and subsequent economic stagnation led to increased demands on Germany to repay the debts owed to the United States. As the Weimar Republic was very fragile in all of its existence, the depression proved to be devastating, and played a major role in the NSDAP's takeover.

        The Treaty of Versailles was considered by most Germans to be a punishing and degrading document because it forced them to surrender resource-rich areas and pay massive amounts of compensation. These punitive reparations caused consternation and resentment, although the actual economic damage resulting from the Treaty of Versailles is difficult to determine. While the official reparations were considerable, Germany ended up paying only a fraction of them. However, the reparations did damage Germany's economy by discouraging market loans, which forced the Weimar government to finance its deficit by printing more money, causing rampant hyperinflation. In addition, the rapid disintegration of Germany in 1919, due to the return of a disillusioned army, the rapid change from possible victory in 1918 to defeat in 1919, and the political chaos may have caused a psychological imprint on Germans that could lead to extreme nationalism, shown by Hitler.

        Most historians agree that many industrial leaders identified the Weimar Republic with labour unions and with the Social Democrats, who had established the Versailles concessions of 1918/1919. Although some did see Hitler as a means to abolish the latter, the Republic was already unstable before any industry leaders were supporting Hitler. Even those who supported Hitler's appointment often did not want Nazism in its entirety and considered Hitler a temporary solution in their efforts to abolish the Republic. Industry support alone cannot explain Hitler's enthusiastic support by large segments of the population, including many workers who had turned away from the left.
        Thank you. And I can say no more to add to History. "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It" 'Hub
        If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by relief13035 View Post
          Exactly!

          We all are blessed to live in the United States and have the freedom where we can "agree to disagree".

          In my opinion, it is irrelevant at this point, who I voted for or against. A new President was sworn in on Tuesday and I have respect for the position. I hope he is granted wisdom to lead our country in the right direction.
          AMEN! GBWY 'Hub
          If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Kansas1960 View Post
            I chose someone who is a capitalist you chose a socialist.
            What you need is the best of both systems because each system on its own is doomed to fail. Capitalism fails because it is like a Monopoly game where everyone fights it out until only one player is left with all the money and everyone else is wiped out. The game is then over. At that point you have to start a new game to continue which is kind of what happens with our economic bubbles and recessions. Socialism fails because nobody wants to play a game they can't finish because no one can ever get all the wealth and win the prize. The game becomes uninteresting to a point where it just ends, kind of like what happened to the Soviet Union. The one thing these two systems have in common is that they both inevitably crash and leave countless lives in ruins when they go through their reset periods. Somewhere in the middle is the perfect system with the rewards of capitalism and security of socialism. It just cracks me up when the left and the right fight over who is better. History has proven over and over that neither side is better. A well balanced center is the only way.

            Comment


              #21
              We have the 3rd most free economy in the world. Hong Kong being #1. Please tell me county in the world or the history of the world you admire as the best. US only started falling when the New Deal (first step of socialism) was started.

              Hong Kong tops free economies
              Jul 08 2003 21:49

              Print story | E-mail article Washington - Hong Kong, now in uproar over government plans for new anti-subversion laws, still tops the 2003 list of the world's freest economies, according to a study released here on Tuesday.

              The former British colony was followed by Singapore in second place and the United States in third in the seventh-annual Economic Freedom of the World Report.

              Hong Kong has been in first place in each report since the index of economic freedom was first published in 1996.

              At the bottom of the list of 123 countries was Myanmar, formerly known as Burma, according to the report published by the conservative Cato Institute, Canada's Fraser Institute and institutes from 54 other countries.

              "The research is unambiguous that freeing people economically unleashes individual drive and initiative and puts a nation on the road to economic growth," Nobel laureate Milton Friedman said in a statement accompanying the report.

              "By freeing people from government dependence and creating prosperity, economic freedom also helps establish other freedoms and democracy," he said.

              Hong Kong, ironically, took first place again in economic freedom just as it strained against a perceived threat to its democratic freedoms after six years under Chinese sovereignty.

              Hong Kong chief executive Tung Chee-hwa on Tuesday deferred the final reading of a new anti-subversion law after widespread international and public protest that culminated in a massive July 1 demonstration.

              The freedom rankings were based on data for 2001, however, long before the latest upheavals in Hong Kong, a free-wheeling capitalist society with low taxes and a minimal social safety net.

              The economic freedom index of the world is based on 38 criteria, measuring personal choice, the ability to compete and exchange goods or travel and protection of person and property.

              Economic freedom is considered to be restricted when governments choose to raise taxes, boost spending or make new rules rather than leave matters in the hands of people or the markets.

              "Economic freedom is highly correlated with per-capita income growth, economic growth and life expectancy. Increased economic freedom does not lead to greater income inequality," the authors argued.

              In fact, the poorest get a bigger share of the country's wealth in the most liberal economies, the report said.

              "The actual income of poor people increases as nations gain in economic freedom because of the increased wealth economic freedom generates," the authors said.

              The other top 10 countries were New Zealand and Britain, sharing fourth place, followed by Canada (sixth), Switzerland (seventh), Ireland (eighth), Australia (ninth) and the Netherlands (10th).

              Among major economies, Japan came in at 26, Germany at 20, Italy at 35, France at 44, Mexico at 69, China at 100, India at 73, Brazil at 82 and Russia at 112, the report said.

              Most of the lower-ranking countries were African, Latin American or former communist states.

              The bottom five countries were Guinea-Bissau (119th), Zimbabwe (120th), Algeria (121st), the Democratic Republic of the Congo (122nd) and Myanmar (123rd).

              The highest-ranking African country was Botswana (26th), which tied with eight other countries, including Japan.

              Comment


                #22
                (I voted for Robert Barr)

                No he is not the savior of the United States.

                Like George W. Bush he has gone in with a strong desire to bring the nation together. However that desire is going to be crushed by the Congress just as it was for Bush.

                The economy will not recover for at least 2 years and possibly much longer. In fact most of the House economic stimulus package (75% of it) would not come into effect until 2011 and would take at least 3-4 years after that to see effect.

                While peace is always a laudable goal, he cannot bring peace to the Middle East. Only the middle east can bring peace to itself and only when they realize that violence and constant war is what has held them back for so very long, both Jew and Muslim. The same is true in Afghanistan, the Soviet Union tried a troop surge, they failed. In many respects the overspending on trying to take Afghan territory is what lead to the economic collapse of the Soviet Union in the 80s.

                Personally I think it is time the dragon came back home and slept a while. It has become prudent to cleanse the inner vessel before the outer.
                May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
                July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
                September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Not our savior but I voted for him and I think he can make a difference in some ways.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Don't necessarily believe that he'll be a "savior" - no President ever was, except Lincoln - ended slavery.
                    But he won't be as bad either as some hard right idiots like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or Anne Coulter predict.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      It will take some serious work to save this country. I do not envy Obama's job. If I can just get affordable Healthcare out of his presidency, I'll be happy. Hopefully survive bankruptcy without losing what little I have. That would be a plus also.
                      Last edited by Willy13; 01-23-2009, 07:03 AM.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by magyar123 View Post
                        Don't necessarily believe that he'll be a "savior" - no President ever was, except Lincoln - ended slavery.
                        But he won't be as bad either as some hard right idiots like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or Anne Coulter predict.
                        Those idiots are not in bankruptcy. LOL.

                        (Take it as meant, joke.) 'Hub
                        If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Willy13 View Post
                          It will take some serious work to save this country. I do not envy Obama's job. If I can just get affordable Healthcare out of his presidency, I'll be happy. Hopefully survive bankruptcy without losing what little I have. That would be a plus also.
                          While a lofty goal I doubt he can get National Health Care, there is simply no way to pay for it. Assuming you wanted to cover every American as well as Medicare it would cost between 3.5 and 4 trillion dollars a year.

                          To make the program affordable it would have to cost less than 400 billion a year. Which means if your covering everyone you'd cover them about a 1/8 to 1/10 as good as Medicare.
                          May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
                          July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
                          September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by AngelinaCatHub View Post
                            Those idiots are not in bankruptcy. LOL.

                            (Take it as meant, joke.) 'Hub
                            I have to agree it disgusts me that Rush and other's are already planning Obama's demise.

                            I say WE MUST all work together for the common good of this country. We cannot stand divided, we must make smart decisions, we must learn from what history has proven.

                            I am not in La la land, and I know no utopia exists, I am a realist(without spell checker I might add).

                            So debate this all you want, but in the end if we do not find common ground, and learn from what the Roman's, the English, the Chinease Empires did not, that ulitmate power leads to ulitmate corruption we WILL fail. Bash the leaders? I say hell no! Unite and work together is the only way!!!
                            Filed: 11/25/08 - chp 7 no asset
                            Discharged: 2/24/09 CLOSED 3/7/09!

                            Comment


                              #29
                              history is so perverted from what really happened and its surely not what is taught in public schools...

                              for example: hwy US90 goes thru suwannee county florida and has historical markers, showing where hernando desoto came and did war with the indians.... you can pull your car into an exhibit and see artist concepts of the battles...it even discribes the cruelty of the spaniards to the indians at a near by glade..

                              one problem: historians found out that desoto was never within 75 miles of the area... it was made up at the order of president FDR back in the 30s, during the depression... it was another attempt to stimulate tourist travel to out of the way towns....i wonder what else he made up...
                              oops, the state was called on its authentisity and has removed the exhibit...
                              such is the way with a lot of history...
                              "it looks like i picked a bad day to give up sniffing glue"! [McKroskey, airplane]

                              Comment


                                #30
                                I found this link very informative, yet amusing.

                                Looks like Obama is off to a good start IMHO.



                                http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/
                                Last edited by lrprn; 01-26-2009, 07:30 PM. Reason: removed large amount of empty space in post
                                Filed March 2009

                                Comment

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