Is President Obama Fixing the Economy?? Yes, Maybe, No - weigh in here

[jeb]

Simply, 99% of people on social programs are abusing the system. 1% truely deserve it and that is what the programs are designed for.

Many studies have shown that the % of fraud in the overall social programs is very small - although I do believe it is more than they are able to find.

It is not the social programs or the people that receive the help that is the problem - it is the lack of oversight of these programs and the repeated cuts in funding to do so.

Here in Florida, the case load for each person involved in the Child Protective Services is so large that if they started working on one each day it would take years to go through the case load - forget the new ones coming in daily. And we wonder why a child falls through the cracks.

Our programs don't work because of the political appointees running them - and replaced every time there is an election - and the lack of funds needed to operate. And we all know who the "champions of smaller government" are, don't we?

We see those "welfare mons" like Octomom on TV and it makes us mad as hell - we react by wanting to toss the whole system out - understandably so, sometimes. But we have to step back and take a hard look at the big picture before we have a knee jerk reaction.

We Americans are not wired to take our time at anything. - jb

[jeb]

Absurd. We have religious authorities who are moral and righteous who pass judgement all the time. We also have court systems with judges sitting on benches who are moral and righteous passing judgement on others daily.

I want someone to indicate where in the Constitution the responsibility to provide social services to our citizens or others in the world is written. The federal government has overstepped it's legal authority by creating all these programs.

Why is it acceptable for the federal government to tax me so that my lazy neighbor can receive government aid out of my hard earned income? Why is my income used to provide abortions to women in Africa?

For your 3rd part, because our elected officials say so - that is how our system works.

For your 2nd part, it is not in the Constitution but is rooted in our religious background - help thy neighbor.

For your 1st part - can you say HYPOCRITE????

IF you say your are a Christian, how can you pass judgment on others? How can you vote for someone that believes in war? How can you say we should not have social programs?

Should I go on?

A Christian says they believe in and the teaching of Christ but in actions seem to be far, far more attuned to the teaching in the Old Testament - eye for an eye, etc.

Maybe it is time they stopped the hypocrisy and stopped calling themselves "Christians".

Just a thought. - jb

[jeb]

Last I checked the Amish seem to do pretty good.

One thing missing from the Amish discussion here is the tax breaks they get. Like so many others, they use their "religion" to get around most of them. And like the rest of us, every time they sell something they are using what the taxpayers paid for to get some of the raw materials to make it or ship it or ?

How has one very small group of people managed to get out of paying their fair share, serving in the military, etc., as have the Amish?

They have a good racket going - just like so many others out there that have found a loophole to use. - jb

[blankslate]

While I agree it is VERY frustrating to see people abusing social programs, I disagree with your 99% theory. Maybe before Clinton's welfare reform that would've been a closer estimate.

You include bankruptcy as a social program that you'd like to see eliminated. In this forum, 99% of the people are hard working people who fell victim to incredibly tough economic times. There are probably 1% who shrug their shoulders and are trying to milk the system.

We do not pay the bulk of our veterans well. I know this because I've seen these young and now permanently disabled men sleeping on the streets and lining up at the shelters. For those who were able to stay healthy in the military and make a lifelong career of it, they are taken care of very well.

My Father who is 93 years old also worked very hard. He served in the Army in WWII, co-founded a bank that was the first to offer non-GI and FHA home loans. He made a small fortune and never thought he would have to tap into Social Security. Then when he was 86 his wife filed for divorce and revealed that she had run up $25,000 in gambling debt on credit cards that were in his name and took a mortgage on the house he'd built with cash to the tune of $250,000. It was all in his name and he had to pay it off. Then the stock market crashed and having outlived his own expectations he is now living on Social Security. I am GLAD Social Security is there to catch his fall as he is no longer of an age to get back to work and figure it out. I would love to be able to take care of him but he would rather die than put me in that position.

That said, I have one relative who lives on the Government and always has his hands in someone else's pockets. He feels entitled to everything. He's even stolen money out of my purse not caring that I was a young single mother working two jobs and struggling to feed my child. He lives on SSI because he is bi-polar, attends college for free and even gets paid trips to Hawaii from the system. Does this tick me off? You bet it does.

As frustrating as it can be to see someone abuse the system on dollars I work so hard for, I'm glad it is there for people who really need it. These days I believe there are far more truly needy in the system than simply lazy and greedy. There will always be people who feel entitled to things they haven't earned and there is no way around it. It's not a perfect system and could use some tweaking like everything else but it is much needed in our country to keep us from becoming Third World where only the healthy and wealthy survive.

Hi blankslate. I think you misunderstood my post and I will try to explain more. . Social programs are wonderful when used properly.

Simply, 99% of people on social programs are abusing the system. 1% truely deserve it and that is what the programs are designed for.

Welfare was greatly abused and had to be reformed by Clintons administration.

BK was greatly abused(and still is) and had to be reformed in 2005.

We pay our veterans well, or at least we should. I would vote to move billions from HUD to veterans groups. Instead of bailing out the banks we should spend the money on the militay but 'toxic debt' is forcing our governemt to buy the 'toxic debt'.

My parents are elderly and live nicely on retirement income they earned working many jobs and living frugally and if my parents can do it then anyone can.

God helps them that help themselves.

[LuciluS]

We must take care of those who HONESTLY can not care for themselves. It should be at the state level. Your SSID is well earned.

Your investment in Social Security would be considerly higher had you been able to invest it yourself and you could live off an annuity for substantially more than your SSID payment today. Any time the government does a task the private sector can also do it ends up a disaster.

You are correct; however, my state, Arkansas, does not have such Programs. We don't even have Unions in Arkansas. I had a small 401k, but had to use it, while I fought for 2 yrs. to get my disability. My Attorney received over $7,000 and he didn't do squat except sign 2 pieces of paper.

However, look at California. My Aunt who will be 80 lives there. She has severe Diabetes & knee surgery on both knees. She just hired a lady to live with her who is paid by the State at $8.00 an hour. I'm truly concerned with her well-being as she hired this lady from an ad. Lady gave her a phone number as a reference and she call it and liked what the person said, so she hired the Lady.

My brother who lives 5 hours away from her is outraged at her, but states she is trying to show her Independence. I call it oneronous which runs in our family LOL! We are keeping in close contact with her and this lady (who I don't even know her name, YET).

California has gone to the Extreme, as far as, my brother is concerned. Think about that Lady who just had those 5 babies and has, I think, 6 other children and doesn't even have a job. She is living off of California's welfare reform system.

You think California's Welfare system is working? I don't.

[OhioFiler]

We must take care of those who HONESTLY can not care for themselves. It should be at the state level. Your SSID is well earned.

Your investment in Social Security would be considerly higher had you been able to invest it yourself and you could live off an annuity for substantially more than your SSID payment today. Any time the government does a task the private sector can also do it ends up a disaster.

[LuciluS]

Social Services = Social Security Disability.

I started working when I was 14 yrs. old at Wal-Mart #7 in North Little Rock, Ar. I worked while I was in high school and college. I was an Accountant who worked in the Public Sector for 2 1/2 yrs. and then worked in the Private Sector until I was 51 yrs. old.

I paid into Social Security and Medicare along with my fair share of Federal and State withholdings. I was involved in a car accident on 3/14/05. I've had 6 cervical and lumbar surgeries and a Spinal Cord Stimulator implanted in my lower back in 11/07 as I am now inoperable due to in layman's terms - a cobweb of nerves in my lower back and deemed 100% disabled by several doctors including a Social Security Disability doctor I was required to see.

I'm on Social Security Disability which is about 1/3 of what I made while working as an Accountant. I received a settlement of $5,000 from the insurance company just this past February. That $5,000 and my disabillity check each month doesn't even come close to what my yearly income Was.

There are days I'm unable to get out of bed. I see a Pain Management Doctor every month and am on 8 different medications, including morphine 3 x a day, just to be able to Function. I use a cane, rollator and a scooter.

Just found out this past month, due to permanent nerve damage in my left foot, my toes will not move. Fitted for a brace just last week to keep myself from falling while using a Cane as my home is not conducive to using my rollator or scooter 100% of the time.

I would love to be able to work; however, it is Impossible for me. Are you telling me I'm not entitled to Social Security Disability?? If you are, You Are Dead Wrong! Why are working people paying into Social Security and Medicare, if they become disabled or reach retirement age and draw funds?

I'm through ranting.

Luci

[OhioFiler]

They do good if you like living in the 19th century. It's not a very free society either. I have to admit I admire the simpleness of the Amish but at the same time I know I and most other people could never live that way. One thing about them I find ironic, although they appear to be a self sufficient society, in reality they are not. Like it or not, they exist only because others have protected their culture and fought all the wars for them when more advanced and powerful aggressors came knocking at the door. It's an interesting society but once again, an impractical one.

I do agree that we are too spoiled with luxuries and many other things that are not essential. It simply amazes me how many people making $50 to $100 grand a year have financial troubles. I could live like a king on that money.

I've had significant dealings with Amish tradesmen. They bend every rule needed to make money. Cell phones are used, electricity on job sites, electricity in their barns. One thing they do rely on completely is the use of an English driver to get them to the work site.

The Amish tradesmen tend to be hardworking but my experience with many of them is they are not terribly smart, cut corners on projects that should not be cut and generally have less concern for the quality of the product than most English tradespeople. This was frustrating as I often heard consumers brag with excitement about their Amish built this or that.

They young adults have about a 3-4 year period before they become members of the Church where they are allowed to experience the English lifestyle. Many of them will drive during this time and pursue activities that most 18-22 year olds will pursue. Once they officially join the Church they revert back to the simpler lifestyle and are married to a lovely young Amish woman.

[JRScott]

Yes she has. She is not camped out in front of Obama's Chicago home or being arrested in front of the White House though. More irritating is the media's lack of attention to her current protestations. One would think CINDY SHEEHAN protesting O'bama's policies would be newsworthy. Apparently not as they were every time she wished to protest GWB.

I'll agree they should be covering her more, however give her a little time she protested a bit before camping out in crawford, so I wouldn't put it past her to do it again.

[Willy13]

Last I checked the Amish seem to do pretty good.

The fact is many of the conveniences we are accustomed to are not really essentials and in another age would have been considered luxuries. It's not what you have it's what you do with what you have that is most important in life.

They do good if you like living in the 19th century. It's not a very free society either. I have to admit I admire the simpleness of the Amish but at the same time I know I and most other people could never live that way. One thing about them I find ironic, although they appear to be a self sufficient society, in reality they are not. Like it or not, they exist only because others have protected their culture and fought all the wars for them when more advanced and powerful aggressors came knocking at the door. It's an interesting society but once again, an impractical one.

I do agree that we are too spoiled with luxuries and many other things that are not essential. It simply amazes me how many people making $50 to $100 grand a year have financial troubles. I could live like a king on that money.

[OhioFiler]

Anyone who is in a moral and righteous position to pass judgment on others, wouldn't.

Those "social" programs you would like to have eliminated take care of the elderly who have paid their taxes and kept this country running for their whole lives. For men and women of our military who sacrificed life and limb believing that they were protecting our country. If you want zero social programs, then you don't want to live in America, you want to live in a third world country.

God Bless OUR America.

Absurd. We have religious authorities who are moral and righteous who pass judgement all the time. We also have court systems with judges sitting on benches who are moral and righteous passing judgement on others daily.

I want someone to indicate where in the Constitution the responsibility to provide social services to our citizens or others in the world is written. The federal government has overstepped it's legal authority by creating all these programs.

Why is it acceptable for the federal government to tax me so that my lazy neighbor can receive government aid out of my hard earned income? Why is my income used to provide abortions to women in Africa?

[OhioFiler]

In Cindy Sheehan's defense she has led rallies calling Obama a warmonger in the last week or so. She at least is consistent.

Yes she has. She is not camped out in front of Obama's Chicago home or being arrested in front of the White House though. More irritating is the media's lack of attention to her current protestations. One would think CINDY SHEEHAN protesting O'bama's policies would be newsworthy. Apparently not as they were every time she wished to protest GWB.

[jeb]

Anyone who is in a moral and righteous position to pass judgment on others, wouldn't.

Those "social" programs you would like to have eliminated take care of the elderly who have paid their taxes and kept this country running for their whole lives. For men and women of our military who sacrificed life and limb believing that they were protecting our country. If you want zero social programs, then you don't want to live in America, you want to live in a third world country.

God Bless OUR America.

Well said. - jb

[jeb]

Me to, I vote libertarian every chance I can get.

Libertarians would cut the the social programs by 99% including HUD, welfare, and BK.

And one of the first things to go would be BK. If you so believe in their policies, why are you here on a forum about BK?

This is why I use the term, Hypocrite, so much - those that say one thing but then do something else. Those that decry all those "liberal" programs and then take unemployment, Social Security, Medicare, etc.

It's only SOMEONE ELSE'S "liberal" program they want to cut.

I was out of the country for a few years back when the "throw the rascals out" movement was in full swing. I was thinking, "wow, the American people have FINALLY come to their senses". They these selfsame people re-elected some 95% of the "rascals" - seems it someone else's "rascal" they want to vote out but as long as theirs brings home the money for them, that is just fine.

Hypocrites! - jb

[JRScott]

Sure we prospered but so did Rome in it's most barbaric times. People also lived very hard lives and many did not live long back then. That's good for natural selection and weeding out the week but that would be very messy in our country today. 140 years ago we were also a nation of virtually unlimited resources. Today those resources have gone down while competition for those resources has gone up significantly. In order to live like we did 140 years ago, you would have to be willing accept a lot of the death, suffering and poverty that would undoubtedly come with that today.

One thing that really does piss me off about our society is that if I really wanted to live completely off the grid and be 100% self sustaining, our society would not let me. Ordinances, Taxes, Zoning, HOA's, Permits etc always guarantee someone has a stake and their nose in your business.

It would be nice if we could live without socialist programs but it's just not realistic in this day and age.

Last I checked the Amish seem to do pretty good.

The fact is many of the conveniences we are accustomed to are not really essentials and in another age would have been considered luxuries. It's not what you have it's what you do with what you have that is most important in life.