outdated lease???

[junker]

i had a one year lease on a house that was up at the end of jan 2009, i asked them at that time to renew it and the rental company kept putting me off and i just kept paying month to month with no lease or even month to month contract...now i am buying a house..and decided to use this months rent to help with closing costs...naturally the rental co is bugging me to pay rent and saying i cant use my deposits for last months rent..which by the way is two months deposit because of pets....i maintain..since i dont have a valid contract of any kind i dont have to abide by the old lease agreement which says specifically 30days notice and deposit cant be used for last month rent..do you think i am LEGALLY obiligated to pay last months rent...

[justbroke]

No, you do have to abide by the old lease. Only the terms, regarding the length of the lease, has changed. When a lease goes month to month, the terms are fully enforceable, including any notice to advise that you are terminating the lease. This is usually required to be in writing.

Almost all leases, and especially professionally drawn-up leases, advise that you cannot use "deposits" as your last month rent. The deposit is specifically to mitigate costs for damages to the residence... especially when you have pets.

Not to pick on you, but if you need to stop paying one month's rent to make your closing costs... there's something wrong. You should already have about 6 month's cash reserves in the Bank when buying a home.

You are legally obligated to pay the last month's rent. You can't ask them to "take it out of the deposit". Well you can ask them, but they are not obligated to do so.

[junker]

if a lease is a contract,,and when the contract expires it is no longer in effect..ofcourse thats just my opinion..paula abduls contract expired..and is no longer obligated to fox tv... thats the way i see this..of course i understand you are probably right...i will call a legal aid...landlords are notorious for stiffing people on security deposits...so since i am not going to be in the rental for a full month...maybe 2 weeks...i am choosing to not pay..the house is clean so i dont see them losing any money...i am looking over the lease and dont see anything in it about continueing on a month to month basis...

[justbroke]

if a lease is a contract,,and when the contract expires it is no longer in effect..ofcourse thats just my opinion..paula abduls contract expired..and is no longer obligated to fox tv...

You're right, if the contract is not an "automatically renewing" contract. Most any lease, for a residence, has a clause which will automatically renew the contract on a month to month basis. In that case, the lease/contract actually never expires. An employment contract, like Ms. Abdul's, would not have a renewal clause.

thats the way i see this..of course i understand you are probably right...i will call a legal aid...landlords are notorious for stiffing people on security deposits...so since i am not going to be in the rental for a full month...maybe 2 weeks...i am choosing to not pay..the house is clean so i dont see them losing any money...i am looking over the lease and dont see anything in it about continueing on a month to month basis...

If you actually have problems with your security deposit, then I'm wondering where you are living or what type of damage you have done. I am a landlord. I have never taken (kept) a tenants deposit. I know the difference between wear and tear and damage. If you punch a hole in the wall, or if your dog chews the wall, scratches up the hardwood floors, or urinates all over the carpet... that's damage.

Here's a standard clause found in almost all "Leases"... notice the "extension" is automatic. You probably won't find that in employment contracts.

3. LENGTH OF AGREEMENT

This Agreement shall begin March 1, 2007, and shall remain in full force for a period of one-year. Unless terminated on February 28, 2008, the Agreement shall be automatically renewed monthly. Either party may terminate this Agreement by giving written notice to the other at least 60 days prior to the end of the calendar month.

You probably have a similar clause in your rental agreement. The key part of that Length of Agreement clause, is the part which requires you to terminate on the lease end date... otherwise you go into a month to month, and the noticing period for termination of the lease, remains the same. So the key is that the lease doesn't actually expire, as it automatically renews monthly.

If you are actually having landlord issues, which you never brought up, check with your local housing boards for assistance. You can always sue to get your damage deposits back. Much of that is controlled by State/County and sometime City ordinances.

[sigferl]

Thanks for your post junker. I also agree 'justbroke' that the lease rules never expire, otherwise simple items such as rental amounts or late fees would not apply either.

Out of curosity, why are you even trying to use your last months rent for something else?

God Bless America

if a lease is a contract,,and when the contract expires it is no longer in effect..ofcourse thats just my opinion..paula abduls contract expired..and is no longer obligated to fox tv... thats the way i see this..of course i understand you are probably right...i will call a legal aid...landlords are notorious for stiffing people on security deposits...so since i am not going to be in the rental for a full month...maybe 2 weeks...i am choosing to not pay..the house is clean so i dont see them losing any money...i am looking over the lease and dont see anything in it about continueing on a month to month basis...

[junker]

i am only going to be in the house for 2 weeks. i gave 2 months deposit, the house will be spic and span clean when i move,,, i see no reason they cant take one months security deposit for the rent...landlords have a way of screwing people over.... i bought a house that closed earlier than i thought it would so i see no reason to pay.... when its all done and i am out...technically they will owe me money...but i am sure i am not going to get it....i dont see how they can sue me...if the house is clean they will be forced to take the securitydeposit.. also on a side note..i have had nothing but problems with this place as far as freezing pipes and one even broke. they were slow to respond if at all. its called payback.....

[justbroke]

i am only going to be in the house for 2 weeks. i gave 2 months deposit, the house will be spic and span clean when i move,,, i see no reason they cant take one months security deposit for the rent...

Contractually, the security deposit is not rent. They actually have to deposit it into a special banking account and they can't touch it. So how do they get paid for that month???

landlords have a way of screwing people over....

Actually, they don't... or you've been living in some pretty shady areas with Slumlords for Landlords.

i bought a house that closed earlier than i thought it would so i see no reason to pay.... when its all done and i am out...technically they will owe me money...but i am sure i am not going to get it....i dont see how they can sue me...if the house is clean they will be forced to take the securitydeposit.. also on a side note..i have had nothing but problems with this place as far as freezing pipes and one even broke. they were slow to respond if at all. its called payback.....

This is exactly why they have security deposits. People who think they "don't need to do" something, and don't do it... leaving the landlord in a bad position. I'm a landlord, but I'm not a millionaire (okay, maybe in debt) LOL

That doesn't mean that you not paying your rent, doesn't cause me to default on my property... which is exactly why I'm in Bankruptcy now.

is called payback.....

Aha, the truth comes out. Either you have very little money in reserve or you are just doing this in spite. Or, both. Either way, you are in breach of the contract. I hope you're one day a landlord, because you'd be able to see what I'm talking about, and would then think twice about what you are doing.

[junker]

exactly HOW....HOW....are they going to be out a dime....i will be out soon...the place will be just as when i moved in....AND..they are going to keep MY deposit...which is 2.....yes 2 months security....this place sat empty for a year..before i rented it...so how are they going to lose a dime....

[justbroke]

exactly HOW....HOW....are they going to be out a dime....i will be out soon...the place will be just as when i moved in....AND..they are going to keep MY deposit...which is 2.....yes 2 months security....this place sat empty for a year..before i rented it...so how are they going to lose a dime....

How do you know they are going to keep 2 month's deposit? The only way they can do that, is if you damaged the place. And, only to the extent that there are actual damages? Did you know that in most States, the deposit can only be applied towards damage, and not back rent?

They are out of the money, until your lease terminates and then they apply the deposit to damages, if any. Clean doesn't mean... damage free. This is a process, and it is highly regulated in all States, and even more restrictive in some Cities (to prevent Slums).

I don't know what you want or expect? I, as a landlord, can't take your damage deposit and apply it to back rents in both North Carolina and Florida (to name two States). Try Chicago, where it's just as restrictive with City Tenancy laws. The laws were meant to protect the renters from the landlords, so the landlords don't have all this power you give them.

I'm figuring that something bad happened between you or you're still upset about broken water pipes. In the Winter, that happens. No landlord wants it to happen. Getting it fixed can take a week or more... purely because other people have broken pipes. You should have seen Florida after the hurricanes in 2004. There were many blue tarps on roofs. Not because the lazy landlord didn't want to fix it or take his time... there was just too much damage to be done at once.

I only wish for you to walk away with the knowledge that rents and deposits don't work the way you believe they do. The landlord could be out real money, regardless of how you think deposits should be applied towards rent.

[junker]

from the first post, my intention was to only let them use the deposit as last months rent...if when i turn in the keys and talk to them the case is as you say i will pay whats due for rent. although SECURITY is exactly what it says...and a SECURIty DEPOSIT..is for just that..making sure a landlord doesnt get stiffed for whatever reason...

[frogger]

i am only going to be in the house for 2 weeks. i gave 2 months deposit, the house will be spic and span clean when i move,,, i see no reason they cant take one months security deposit for the rent...landlords have a way of screwing people over.... i bought a house that closed earlier than i thought it would so i see no reason to pay.... when its all done and i am out...technically they will owe me money...but i am sure i am not going to get it....i dont see how they can sue me...if the house is clean they will be forced to take the securitydeposit.. also on a side note..i have had nothing but problems with this place as far as freezing pipes and one even broke. they were slow to respond if at all. its called payback.....

I hope you're a landlord one day too. Then, and only then, will you understand what justbroke has been telling you.

Payback works both ways......

[justbroke]

from the first post, my intention was to only let them use the deposit as last months rent...

I suggest only that you seek the local housing board or agency that deals with tenancy. Ask them what your rights are as a renter/tenant. I don't you to lose your entire security deposit because you failed to pay your last month's rent. Rent is usually never pro-rated, so it doesn't matter if you're only there for 2-weeks of a month... you'd owe for the month. Also, if you didn't properly serve notice to the landlord as required by your lease you can also cause issues.

The costs to a landlord to "sue" you for damages (physical or contractual) is sometimes not worth it for the landlord to pursue... they'd rather just have you gone.

I hope this works out for you... and the landlord.

[dingdong]

Why don't you invite the LL in for a walkthrough, show them the place is maintained and not damaged and ask them nicely if they can use the deposit to cover the two weeks of rent and when you move out , do a final walkthrough, document any thing that needs to be fixed ( if the LL feels it does) and then you will both be in a good place when it is time to return your security deposit.

No suprise charges and no money owed.

I moved last week (moved in with my ex, how freakin funny is that!!), and asked the LL if they could use my deposit for the last months rent. I didn't just withhold it. They were fine, and I moved out a week early and showed the house for them, as they had to drive 30 miles to show it, so I offered.

I had actually left the house in way better shape than when I moved in, did tons of yard work and gardening and spiffed up the hardwood floors so they looked 100% better than when I moved in. They were fine using my deposit as they knew that there was no damage and I left it spotless. But the point is , I asked, because I knew they were a family, not a big investor and they had a mortgage too. My deposit was 1.5 times my rent, so the rent was more than covered.

[junker]

I hope you're a landlord one day too. Then, and only then, will you understand what justbroke has been telling you.

Payback works both ways......

i WAS a landlord at one time...it wasnt worth the headaches...and i do know about being stiffed for rent..etc. and they trashed the place...

[justbroke]

My buddy dingdong makes a very good recommendation. Inviting the landlord to a walkthru with you -- which you should do anyhow! -- to show godo faith, is well worthit.