Jobless and hopeless in America

[Pandora]

to eat "right" and or healthy is indeed more expensive, but we need to become for creative with our meals...especially since the darn cost of food is getting out of control..what are we suppose to do.......i'm NOT eating FAT BACK......ever...

I hear ya - but its relatively easy if you think about it. Grow your own food and make things from scratch. It's healthier, cheaper and you get more product for every dollar spent.

Veggies: Dont own land to do a garden? Easy fix - do it in buckets / pots / hay bales / old tires - whatever works. A 5 gallon bucket will hold 2 tomato plants, each averaging roughly 10-15 lbs of tomatos depending on which plant you start with (ex.: Beefsteak & Betterboys will yield that amount). Cucumbers, peppers, onions, potatos, cabbage, carrots, etc etc etc can all be grown this way.

like fruit? Get a dwarf fruit tree, which can also be grown on a patio in a bucket. There are many different varieties available, from 1 type of fruit that bears on a tree to a multi-fruit tree (i.e, 5-in-1 apple tree). Strawberries can be done easily enough in a pot / bucket as well.

Learn to can / preserve. We go pick 20 lbs of strawberries for roughly $30 at a local farm; those 20 lbs of berries ($30), 2.5 lbs of sugar ($4 for a 5 lb bag/you'd only use half, so $2), 1 pack of pectin (approx. $2) make up about 30 pints of jam (average size for store bought is half pint), and takes about 30 minutes start to finished jars. For 36 jelly jars it will run you approx. $9 per set *reg. price but we've got them on sale for as low as $5 / 12 count* and are reusable every single year. What do you spend on a jar of jelly/jam on average in the store? Premium brands run about $3-4 per jar, and storebrands run about $2, for a cost of $120-240 for the same amount you'd get homemade. Those 30 homemade jams will run you roughly $1.13 in actual product, or $34 - big difference. Dont count the jars since you're going to reuse them every year - they pay for themselves in the long run.

We also do grape, peach, apple butter, pear butter this way. Pick your own is the best way to get the most for your money.

baked goods: learn to bake products you'd buy in the store that are 'convenience' foods (muffins, frozen pancakes, rolls, breads, granola bars, etc). Ounce for ounce you'll get more for the money than purchasing. A 20 lb bag of flour (name brand) runs about $6-8; 25 lb bag of sugar $12; Salt $1-2; baking powder & soda approx. $1-3 depending on brand.

Those are your staples and all you need to make any baked good for the most part. Add in extracts, fruits, etc and you're still much better off than purchasing those "ready to eat" products that have ingredients no one can pronounce in them.

meat: Go local - call up farms that sell beef & pork by the quarter, half & whole side - many have something similiar to a CSA where you can go in with others on a whole cow/pig. You'll get more, it's healthier, you know where it was raised/came from/ how it was treated. Average cost here for 300lb off the hoof (half a side of beef) is roughly $2.25 processed and packaged, with many butcher houses using commercial packaging (like a foodsaver does).

Lastly - and my favorite - if you're able to (check local codes) - get a chicken or two They're great pets and provide you breakfast every single morning! Average cost for 6 full sized birds monthly: $20 (and thats eating gourmet!) And FYI - regardless what people may believe, you do NOT need a rooster to get eggs from a hen They lay eggs w/out the rooster, they're just not fertilized eggs.

[tobee43]

The food stamps thing drives me crazy too.

Fact is, eating healthy cost more. By healthy I mean little preservatives and no pesticides. That's partly the governments fault too. To be certified organic is expensive. We've got big companies corrupt hands all in the government. It's sickening.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that it isn't up to the government to try to make me give up my oreos.

Should we have automatic shut off on our tv and gaming systems? We all know that is contributing to obesity. Perhaps the government to put their greedy paws all over that too. Of course it's "in our best interest"

OH!!! again your sooooooo right...it's 11pm..and the fast food places are running tv commercials right and left....get up out of bed and go get some Kentucky fried chicken!!!!!

and other than an actual medical reason, you are so right again...we ALL know what makes one obese.

to eat "right" and or healthy is indeed more expensive, but we need to become for creative with our meals...especially since the darn cost of food is getting out of control..what are we suppose to do.......i'm NOT eating FAT BACK......ever...

[tobee43]

I got one of those years ago, as well, when I lived in Upstate New York. The tax people apparently took notice of my plate number as I drove onto and off of the Onondaga reservation.

I called the tax department and told them to go eff themselves, that I hadn't bought any cigarettes, and that I wasn't paying them any taxes. They told me to prove I didn't buy cigarettes, and I told them to prove that I did.

Eventually, they hauled me in front of a judge, charging me with everything they could think of except the Lindbergh murder. The judge asked me why, if I wasn't buying cigarettes, did I visit the reservation so frequently. "Because I work there," I replied, and showed him my time sheets for the work I did there and a copy of the contract. The reservation, including the smoke shop, was one of my clients.

The judge looked over the papers, and then at me, and asked why I hadn't simply explained this to the tax people. I replied, "Because it's none of their effing business."

The judge looked at me, and at the tax department's attorney, said "Case dismissed," and that was that.

-Rich

we got MAIL notified by the nj tax department with the bill.......

we paid it rich!!!!!! i just didn't want to deal with the "tax" man...or lady. we had them shipped so apparently all the paperwork was there on our shipments for the past 2 years ...so they had us...no getting out it..

[espo1357]

The food stamps thing drives me crazy too.

Fact is, eating healthy cost more. By healthy I mean little preservatives and no pesticides. That's partly the governments fault too. To be certified organic is expensive. We've got big companies corrupt hands all in the government. It's sickening.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that it isn't up to the government to try to make me give up my oreos.

Should we have automatic shut off on our tv and gaming systems? We all know that is contributing to obesity. Perhaps the government to put their greedy paws all over that too. Of course it's "in our best interest"

I am so ashamed to finally learn that the government is not our friend. I am still pretty young, so I will give myself a break for not seeing this earlier. But, for those of you that are over 30 and still see the government as a friend, you are clueless.

[lovemybugs10]

The food stamps thing drives me crazy too.

Fact is, eating healthy cost more. By healthy I mean little preservatives and no pesticides. That's partly the governments fault too. To be certified organic is expensive. We've got big companies corrupt hands all in the government. It's sickening.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that it isn't up to the government to try to make me give up my oreos.

Should we have automatic shut off on our tv and gaming systems? We all know that is contributing to obesity. Perhaps the government to put their greedy paws all over that too. Of course it's "in our best interest"

[espo1357]

I got one of those years ago, as well, when I lived in Upstate New York. The tax people apparently took notice of my plate number as I drove onto and off of the Onondaga reservation.

I called the tax department and told them to go eff themselves, that I hadn't bought any cigarettes, and that I wasn't paying them any taxes. They told me to prove I didn't buy cigarettes, and I told them to prove that I did.

Eventually, they hauled me in front of a judge, charging me with everything they could think of except the Lindbergh murder. The judge asked me why, if I wasn't buying cigarettes, did I visit the reservation so frequently. "Because I work there," I replied, and showed him my time sheets for the work I did there and a copy of the contract. The reservation, including the smoke shop, was one of my clients.

The judge looked over the papers, and then at me, and asked why I hadn't simply explained this to the tax people. I replied, "Because it's none of their effing business."

The judge looked at me, and at the tax department's attorney, said "Case dismissed," and that was that.

-Rich

Tax dollars at work.

good for you. maybe its better to just be nice in the beginning. perhaps jacko can chime in on this, because he knows what is best for all of us to do in all situations, and whatever you do in life, don't use lead paint or eat twinkies, because jacko may knock on your door.

[RichM]

rich when we were smokers i was getting from the indian reservations in ny..and guess what.....??????

i got a nice almost 3k tax bill from nj that i had to pay!!!

I got one of those years ago, as well, when I lived in Upstate New York. The tax people apparently took notice of my plate number as I drove onto and off of the Onondaga reservation.

I called the tax department and told them to go eff themselves, that I hadn't bought any cigarettes, and that I wasn't paying them any taxes. They told me to prove I didn't buy cigarettes, and I told them to prove that I did.

Eventually, they hauled me in front of a judge, charging me with everything they could think of except the Lindbergh murder. The judge asked me why, if I wasn't buying cigarettes, did I visit the reservation so frequently. "Because I work there," I replied, and showed him my time sheets for the work I did there and a copy of the contract. The reservation, including the smoke shop, was one of my clients.

The judge looked over the papers, and then at me, and asked why I hadn't simply explained this to the tax people. I replied, "Because it's none of their effing business."

The judge looked at me, and at the tax department's attorney, said "Case dismissed," and that was that.

-Rich

[tobee43]

I can't wait for winter to be over. I'm one of those people that will end up on America's funniest videos if I keep using the treadmill. I wish I were kidding.

well...i just had that darn knee surgery and i can't WAIT to get outside and walk run jump swim......and i'm in warm weather...

when we lived in the snow and had money..LOL!!! we had work out equipment ...but no more...however, in the cold it's like you need it!

[tobee43]

New York charges tax on many "junk food" items, all fast foods, alcohol, and tobacco. In fact, the New York City taxes on these items (especially tobacco) are the highest in the nation. Cigarettes, the last time I checked, were between $10.00 and $13.00 a pack, depending on brand.

Based on all these taxes, I would think people here should be lean, mean, and smoke-free. But alas, no. The taxes haven't led to an explosion in gyms or tofu bars, nor have they forced children off their little asses and away from their video games and computers to go outside and play. All they've led to is a transfer of even more money from consumers' pockets to government coffers.

The tobacco tax is the most useless of all, and like most oppressive sales taxes, has led mainly to tax evasion and fraud -- on the parts of both consumers and government. The government paints a picture of a rapid drop in cigarette sales immediately after the tax increase kicked in, and applauds itself for its "success" in motivating people to quit smoking. Of course, those of us whose heads are rooted in reality know otherwise.

We know that tax-free, Native-made cigarettes can be purchased for about three bucks a pack at the Native American reservation an hour east of here, and that the passengers on the "sightseeing" vans that visit the depressing little place didn't buy their tickets so they could enjoy the squalor.

The state claims that the reservations should be collecting cigarette taxes. The courts have been telling the state, "No," for about twenty or thirty years, citing treaties that give the reservations status as sovereign nations, yet the state persists in trying -- unsuccessfully -- to collect the taxes.

We also know that name-brand cigarettes can be obtained for about $6.00 a pack (less than half of the NYC price) from any of the neighborhood guys for whom daily trips to Pennsylvania in their old vans have become full-time jobs.

Personally, I also expect tobacco to replace marijuana as the most commonly grown illicit crop around here. The seeds are cheaper, it's easier to grow, and the penalties, if caught cultivating more than the "personal use" limit of one-tenth of an acre, are trivial compared with the penalties for cultivating marijuana.

In the end, the primary effect of the tobacco tax hike has been to encourage criminality in the form of evasion and fraud, very much like prohibition resulted in the rise of organized crime. And frankly, in the current case, I really can't blame people for evading the taxes.

Not only is the tax rate itself absurd (it calculates to something like 400 percent of the product cost), but the state's been trying to illegally tax cigarette sales at the Native reservations for almost 30 years. No matter how many times they lose in court, and no matter how many judges issue the same rulings regarding the sovereignty of Native American nations, the state persists in trying new schemes to illegally collect cigarette taxes from Native reservations.

So if the state government sets an example of criminality by thirty years of trying to do something that they've repeatedly been told is illegal, why should the citizens particularly care about the state's opinion?

-Rich

rich when we were smokers i was getting from the indian reservations in ny..and guess what.....??????

i got a nice almost 3k tax bill from nj that i had to pay!!!

So if the state government sets an example of criminality by thirty years of trying to do something that they've repeatedly been told is illegal, why should the citizens particularly care about the state's opinion?

got that right!

[tobee43]

Who should decide what is healthy though? The government? Me? You? The companies that are in food production (watched food inc, anyone?) ? What about a dr? Yes, lets let them decide; because they all agree.

Broke people will spend the money if it's important to them. My mother stopped smoking after 28 years. Not because prices were so high, but because a dr told her if she kept it up she wouldn't see her grandkids grow up.

My dad on the other hand, (who used to tell me second hand smoke wasn't bad and that smoking probably wasn't either, that it was made up by the government. That I was terrible for not letting my kids in houses that are smoked in) still smokes 2 packs a day and a 6 pack a day. and he is broke. During the winter my mom provides for them by working at a daycare, yet he still has his cigarettes (highly taxed) and beer.

If we tax Doritos, they will still be bought. Healthy food actually takes a bit of work and time. People are going to stick with what they know and are used to, unless they have information they wont change.

you got a good point...remember Prohibition??? that sure didn't help anyone other than the bootleggers,...but it never stopped drinking.

i know..it gets to the point who do you want to tell YOU what or what you cannot eat or drink...it's fine line for certain...

and me too, i didn't stop smoking because it was so expensive i stopped because my daughter got pregnant with our first grand child and said it's cigarettes or us...well that was a no brainer...

and your right...i LIVE on sunflower seeds....next we'll say the salt is unhealthy....so i hear you

but in all honesty...it does bother me when the lady in front of me has food stamps and her cart is full of junky foods...so i guess it's more my problem...but we can't began taking people's rights away.....well sorta..cuz they already have banned smoking almost everywhere....

so it's ....i agree a really fine line!

[RichM]

California does NOT charge tax on food bought at a grocery store.
I too agree that we should tax junk food, fast food, alcohol and tobacco to help offset the increased medical costs we will all end up paying for people who over indulge in those life styles.

New York charges tax on many "junk food" items, all fast foods, alcohol, and tobacco. In fact, the New York City taxes on these items (especially tobacco) are the highest in the nation. Cigarettes, the last time I checked, were between $10.00 and $13.00 a pack, depending on brand.

Based on all these taxes, I would think people here should be lean, mean, and smoke-free. But alas, no. The taxes haven't led to an explosion in gyms or tofu bars, nor have they forced children off their little asses and away from their video games and computers to go outside and play. All they've led to is a transfer of even more money from consumers' pockets to government coffers.

The tobacco tax is the most useless of all, and like most oppressive sales taxes, has led mainly to tax evasion and fraud -- on the parts of both consumers and government. The government paints a picture of a rapid drop in cigarette sales immediately after the tax increase kicked in, and applauds itself for its "success" in motivating people to quit smoking. Of course, those of us whose heads are rooted in reality know otherwise.

We know that tax-free, Native-made cigarettes can be purchased for about three bucks a pack at the Native American reservation an hour east of here, and that the passengers on the "sightseeing" vans that visit the depressing little place didn't buy their tickets so they could enjoy the squalor.

The state claims that the reservations should be collecting cigarette taxes. The courts have been telling the state, "No," for about twenty or thirty years, citing treaties that give the reservations status as sovereign nations, yet the state persists in trying -- unsuccessfully -- to collect the taxes.

We also know that name-brand cigarettes can be obtained for about $6.00 a pack (less than half of the NYC price) from any of the neighborhood guys for whom daily trips to Pennsylvania in their old vans have become full-time jobs.

Personally, I also expect tobacco to replace marijuana as the most commonly grown illicit crop around here. The seeds are cheaper, it's easier to grow, and the penalties, if caught cultivating more than the "personal use" limit of one-tenth of an acre, are trivial compared with the penalties for cultivating marijuana.

In the end, the primary effect of the tobacco tax hike has been to encourage criminality in the form of evasion and fraud, very much like prohibition resulted in the rise of organized crime. And frankly, in the current case, I really can't blame people for evading the taxes.

Not only is the tax rate itself absurd (it calculates to something like 400 percent of the product cost), but the state's been trying to illegally tax cigarette sales at the Native reservations for almost 30 years. No matter how many times they lose in court, and no matter how many judges issue the same rulings regarding the sovereignty of Native American nations, the state persists in trying new schemes to illegally collect cigarette taxes from Native reservations.

So if the state government sets an example of criminality by thirty years of trying to do something that they've repeatedly been told is illegal, why should the citizens particularly care about the state's opinion?

-Rich

[lovemybugs10]

my dh was on it for 3 years...lost 50 lbs and our doctor LOVED the atkins diet...i gained 8 lbs and never cheated....so much for that..

i ended up really having to run my butt off!! (once they fixed my medical problem)....

shoot i lose weight on pasta and bread...of course not with 4 lbs of butter on it..

I can't wait for winter to be over. I'm one of those people that will end up on America's funniest videos if I keep using the treadmill. I wish I were kidding.

[lovemybugs10]

Who should decide what is healthy though? The government? Me? You? The companies that are in food production (watched food inc, anyone?) ? What about a dr? Yes, lets let them decide; because they all agree.

Broke people will spend the money if it's important to them. My mother stopped smoking after 28 years. Not because prices were so high, but because a dr told her if she kept it up she wouldn't see her grandkids grow up.

My dad on the other hand, (who used to tell me second hand smoke wasn't bad and that smoking probably wasn't either, that it was made up by the government. That I was terrible for not letting my kids in houses that are smoked in) still smokes 2 packs a day and a 6 pack a day. and he is broke. During the winter my mom provides for them by working at a daycare, yet he still has his cigarettes (highly taxed) and beer.

If we tax Doritos, they will still be bought. Healthy food actually takes a bit of work and time. People are going to stick with what they know and are used to, unless they have information they wont change.

[tobee43]

I would hunt someone down and stab them with a pitchfork if they tried to take away my pasta and bread. and scones. lol.

my dh was on it for 3 years...lost 50 lbs and our doctor LOVED the atkins diet...i gained 8 lbs and never cheated....so much for that..

i ended up really having to run my butt off!! (once they fixed my medical problem)....

shoot i lose weight on pasta and bread...of course not with 4 lbs of butter on it..

[tobee43]

Thanks, tobee...the feeling is mutual...

On another note, fellow BKF users, let's try and not get too personal, this is an interesting thread but is likely to get locked if it stays on its current path...

Good luck to us all.

i agree....so back to being jobless...(we still are today) and hopeless in America....( although i have more hope today than yesterday)