The American Dream no longer exists.

[Minnymouth]

Yes, I do live in a rural, country area with town within 3 miles of me. I have city living in a country atmosphere.
If I lived in a large local town, no I would not be able to buy a home, not on wages that I make as a single woman. The pay scale in this part of the country is almost poverty level... no matter what you do for a living!

The average single person makes around $20,000-$25,000 a year and no more. No chance of making more either. Many people have to work that second job just to survive or to make that car payment if they are single.

I have a roommate to help supplement my income. Sometimes I have two roommates that share my home. What they pay me keeps me from having to work a second job. And we all get along really great, because we all have the same problem.......... trying to survive on our own with limited income.

Education is not our problem, I'm college educated, hold down a govt. job yet a town 75 miles from here pays a lot more for the same position. But I don't want to live in a "rat-race" city. I lived in Dayton, Ohio for 28 years, that was enough city for me......

Instead of communiting and hour to work of a day, I commute exactly 2 miles one way. Downtown is 3 miles away from my home.

Do I want to live somewhere else, not really. The peacefullness of this part of the country makes up for it's pitfalls a lot.

Lexington, and Cincinnati, you can't afford to live there....
Lexington is growing by leaps and bounds...... due to a new Toyota factory there. The housing market is outrageous..... New homes going up everywhere, but a shortage of buyers also. Nobody can afford them.....

Super Walmart has moved in here and downtown is turning into a ghost town. Small businesses are folding, and private business owners cannot compete with them.
Mom and pop grocery stores are dying out. Privately owned dress shops are a thing of the past.

Yes, if I lived in a large city, I would not be a homeowner...... couldn't afford to be.

[FilingOnMyOwn]

Wow! I expected this to be a popular thread, but 5 pages of posts in one day, its really blown up beyond my expections. I have a few random comments to make so far about what has been said, in no particular order.

Minnie- I know you like owning your home and rightfully so, but I am assuming you live in a more rural area where property values are lower than average. When you have to move to a booming metropolis like I did just to find a job after 9-11, its impossible for someone like me who earns a median salary to even imagine a home purchase. I agree with you wholeheartedly on your position but I want to tell you the real estate market in most areas is way more out of hand than anyone thinks or realizes.

I also shop at wal-mart. Why? Because they've put everyone else out of business and theres no place else to go! I feel bad for the employees every time I go there, but I have no choice. The supermarket by my work closed down, despite a booming local economy. Winn-Dixie gas gone bankrupt and closed the closest store to my house. By the time I get out of work, Publix is closed and that that leaves me with only one option: the super wal-mart 10 miles away.

Although the housing market will continue to slow down because of rising interest rates, I don't think most areas will see a drop in price, or 'correction'. People who own homes over the years have retained the appreciation of home values in the form of home equity, and each time they move are able to roll over their equity into huge down payments on larger homes, and its the only way they can afford to buy them. The rest of us are screwed. America is still a relatively young country, and whats happening here and now is the inevitable: The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Immigration does have a lot to do with falling wages or stagnant increases, as cheap labor becomes available big business will follow it. However, it was just a matter of time before all these jobs went overseas to places like china and india. Now their economies flourish while for most americans are actually seeing a reduction in the quality of our lives for the first time. If you can't afford things, you have no choice but to improvise with less costly alternatives. Not using your heat when its cold. Walking somewhere because you have no gas in your car or money after spending $50 to fill the thing last time you got paid. All the crap you buy that is now made overseas falls apart after a week or two and has to be purchased over and over.

When growing up I always thought you could get anywhere in this country through hard work. Well, about 10 years of hard work later, I have practically nothing to my name and if it weren't for the saving grace of bk, I would be severly negative in worth. And I've never overspent. I feel like these days are the beginning of the end for the working man. And its sad. I am myself not studious enough to complete a college degree yet I am reasonably intelligent. And it would scare the crap out of me to have to loan 50 or 100k just to do it, only to have to pay it all back again. Eventually its going to be like the UK here, where those who can't find decent paying jobs will simply choose not to work at all because there is no benefit to doing so, mooching off of the system to survive through medicaid and welfare type programs and sending taxes sky high for everyone else.

[FloridaGirl]

Let me tell you something, Minnie. No matter how much you try to explain your views, and why you feel the way you do, there will always be people who say you are being a bigot. In now way, shape, or form did you come off as being a racist in any of your posts. Do you know what you sounded like? A woman who loves and respects her country. A woman who wishes the people who come here illegally would do the same. I get so sick and tired of hearing about the rights of immigrants. I get so sick and tired of being called a racist simply because I want people to come here legally and at least act like they have some respect for the US. I get so sick and tired of seeing immigrants marching up and down our streets holding up flags from their homeland. This is America, damn it. Be proud you are here and hold up the Stars and Stripes. I get so sick and tired of seeing job ad after job ad saying, "Must be bilingual." Damn it, I was born and raised in this country and it is absolutely unfair that another language is taking over. It is unfair that all these people come here and don't even make an attempt to learn English. With each day that goes by, one thing becomes more evident to me. America is going to be no more if things continue as they are. People are coming here with no intentions of adapting to the language and customs of the US. Who the heck do they think they are to come to the place I was born, expecting me to adapt to their customs and language? It is so bad in Florida, and it is only going to get worse. Why? Because everyone is so darn woried about being politically correct. Everyone is so darn worried about offending people of other countries, and this line of thinking is slowly flushing our great country down the toilet.

I think the exact way you do, Minnie. I am all for people coming to America lagally, with a willingness to learn ENGLISH, and the willingness to adapt to the way things have always been done here. I am not for people sneaking into this country, thereby having 8 children, who then have to be supported by my tax dollars. I am not for people coming here with expectations of being catered to. If these people want to come here, I expect them to adapt, not the other way around.

I understand that people want to come to the United States for a better life. But for God's sake! Not everyone can come here!! Is it fair that our nation is becoming overcrowded with immigrants? What about the people who have lived in America all their lives who wish to have children one day? If every single person who wished to immigrate to America eventually ended up here, there would certainly not be enough room or jobs for those who might one day be born here, to parents who were themselves born here. This is why there are lotteries each year. Does anyone even stop to think about why? It isn't because we don't want people to have the opportunities we have, it is because we just can't let everyone in. Our country allows a certain number of immigrants to legally enter each year, and the reasons vary. But the rules and laws are in place for a reason. America can't be treated like a free-for-all country, and it gets under my skin in a big way that people think it is okay for people to come here illegally. I suppose that all the liberals wouldn't mind if Mexico, Central America, South America, etc., ceased to exist any longer. The liberals think that anyone who wants to come here should be allowed to. Well, guess what? The US would become all those countries if everyone who wanted to come here did. The Earth is a huge place, and it is such for a reason. It just isn't possible for everyone who wants to come here to do so. Does it suck for those who want in? Yes, but that doesn't give them the right to come on in anyway.

I worry about what this country will be in another ten years. As long as people have the attitude that it is fine and dandy for people to cross the borders illegally, things will never get any better. As long as people have the attitude that it's okay for immigrants to speak only Spanish, those immigrants will continue to expect English speakers to learn Spanish. As long as people have the attitude that illegals should face no consequences if they are caught, the flood will continue because there will be no fear of consequences for being here illegally. Our rights as Americans are being overshadowed by the supposed rights of illegals....how is that even close to being okay with some of you? I could go on and on, and on, and on, but I won't.

Basically, my point is that it gets old hearing people call those like Minnie and Robivi3, and myself racists when it isn't like that at all. I like people of all races, religions, colors, etc., etc. But you know what? I love my country and I'm sick of seeing it sinking into a pit of mud. It's got nothing to do with hating anyone. It's got nothing to do with being a xenophobe. It's got to do with a longing to have people enter this country as the immigrants did from the beginning of immigration. They learned English and they adapted because they were damn happy to be in The United States and they respected that. Today, many immigrants have little respect for anything America once stood for. So what the heck happened? How did things get so out of whack? I just don't know.

One last thing to think about. It is a rare thing for me to run into people from Asia, and the Middle East, who don't at least try to speak English. Now, if they can do it, why can't those who come from Mexico, Central, and South America do the same?

Thanks for reading, and those who feel like responding in a hateful manner need not waste their time.

[tired_of_debt]

Wal-Mart

First off, let me say that I shop at Wal-Mart. I like it. I have never been disappointed in anything I bought there. BUT...I would never want to work there. Perhaps it is different by geographic location, but a Super Wal-Mart opened up not far from me in Illinois. I thought it might be fun to get out of the house since I DO work from home and it would bring in some extra money to help with some of the bills. This was BEFORE bankruptcy. I thought if they could give me schedule for a few nights a week, I could rearrange my regular job to accommodate them. My only request was that I have Sundays off with my girls. I was told at the interview and in no uncertain terms that if I wanted to work at Wal-Mart, I had to be available any hours, day or night and both Saturday and Sunday either day or night depending on the need. All of that for 7 bucks an hour. No thanks. I found an at-home transcription job part-time that I do in the evenings (just finished up as a matter of fact) where, on a good night, I make 18 bucks an hour and I can get up and walk into the other room and look at my sleeping daughters and not worry. The woman who interviewed me was rude and sanctimonious. Fact is, my brain and capabilities are far superior to hers (and pardon me if that sounds cocky, but I KNOW what I am capable of -- just because I haven't always used it doesn't mean I don't know what I can do). When I retire and I have no children to chauffeur to soccer games and track practice and dinners to cook and homework to help with, I might consider Wal-Mart for the camaraderie and a few extra bucks in my pocket to go to bingo with my lady friends. But, as long as there is another way and breath left in me (and a little bit of fight left), I will avoid a company that wants to own my shedule to the Nth degree. I am sure it works out well for some folks. If that woman who interviewed me had not been so point-blank negative about there being absolutely no give in a schedule, I might have a different attitude. But not today.

[SinkingFast]

Sinking,

I did not know that about vaccines. Thank you for the info. I am filing tommorrow and I am scared to death. However, I have "met" wonderful folks on this board, and so many are in the same predicament. I have to believe that everything will be alright. I am getting ready to go back to college, and I am 40+ years old. YIKES. Nevertheless, I have got to get myself marketable for the new economy. First degree has become useless. Can't even get a loan for school. My dad is giving me the money, God bless him! He sees all of this and realizes I have at least 20+ more years to work (and save, hopefully). I am really stressing tonight about my filing tommorrow. Thanks for "listening".

There was just a recent discussion about Financial Aid and Student Loans. BK people can get money. There's Gov't money available regardless of credit.

Use the Search Function above and look up FAFSA for that thread.

Also, go to the FAFSA website and find out your state's filing deadline. It might not be too late for you to file. Fill out the FAFSA and see what you can get from the Gov't. There might be help for you that you don't know is available.

[debtisbad]

Robi,

One more thing. Alpharetta/Roswell used to be a separate county--Milton county but was merged into Fulton in I believe the 1930's. People in Alpharetta want to separate from Fulton and go back to being a separate county because of the high taxes.

[debtisbad]

Sounds like your friend is north in the suburb of Alpharetta. Fulton county is extremely high. Then you add in Alpharetta city taxes and it is out of control. That is the main reason we did not move there. We moved northwest to Cherokee county. However, the least expensive taxes are in Forsyth county. What people are now doing is moving right over the line into Forsyth. It gives them the Alpharetta address without the tax burden. Tons of folks moving into the small (actually growing) city of Cumming, GA. It is right up the road from Alpharetta. Taxes are probably at least half, if not lower. Nice subdivisions up there too.

[robivi3]

debt, we got into an argument about the millage rate around Atlanta. A friend of mine at work had property taxes on a 400,000.00 home figured at 16,000.00 per year in a nice area (one of the surrounding municipalities). I thought he was wrong, or was he?

[debtisbad]

One more thing gang, when I was at my atty's office, guy ahead of me was filing. Attorney walked guy out into the waiting room. We were all talking. Guy was about 30 years old, said he did not realize that taxes were so high. He was quoted land price only so his 1000.00 mortgage payment became 1400.00+ after the first year. Guy was shocked and had to forclose. He was really depressed. I never see a stranger so I told him not to feel so bad. He just did not know. I happen to know the area well where he lives and it is the highest tax rate in the city. The name of the game today is "consumer beware!" OK, I am going to bed now and try not to stress!!!!!!

[robivi3]

Min, just a short note, never apologize for what you are. Down here the County loves to post memmos at different times about "celebrating diversity" and it has become a code phrase for "we love reverse discrimination" (which in a legal sense does not exist, hate is hate, discrimination is discrimination). Believe me, I've been there twenty-four years now, I know the Code words from downtown.

We need to get over and done with the psycho-babble of political correctness and just tell the truth, but tell it without ugliness. Let the one who can't support an argument become the savage. I refuse to use excessive caveats anymore to explain a position, the hell with it.

All for immigration, just legal immigration like my Colombian wife, my Colombian step-moyther, my Hatian brother-in-law. The hell with illegals, rat them out, they violate my Country's laws from the get-go. To hell with them, no apologies. Guest Visas for pickers? Absolutely! If they put into the system, give them benefits? Yes, but to the individual only! but to hell with illegals.

Now, rant over... back to housing... you got me riled MIN! LOL!

Debt... BTW... you are right... alot of folks here are moving to Metro Atlanta. We have "high up" friends at MARTA and retirees are also making the jump.

[debtisbad]

Minnie,

My former boss in Atlanta bought a 600k home on interest only. House is gorgeous. I asked him why???? He really is not an showy guy. He said he hopes to sell it for 800k or more in 2 years and that it is an investment. Now alot of folks are moving to metro Atlanta, but they are building new as fast as they can throw them up. My former boss said his interest only loan is fixed for 5 years so he has 5 years to sell just in case the 2 year plan does not work out. Oh, and this is a smart man. I think all this housing stuff is really getting outta whack. Everyone is trying to get in and get all they can. Kind of reminds me of the stock market in 99 (yes, I got slaughtered, DH worked for Lucent Tech at the time). Scary times.

[debtisbad]

Sinking,

I did not know that about vaccines. Thank you for the info. I am filing tommorrow and I am scared to death. However, I have "met" wonderful folks on this board, and so many are in the same predicament. I have to believe that everything will be alright. I am getting ready to go back to college, and I am 40+ years old. YIKES. Nevertheless, I have got to get myself marketable for the new economy. First degree has become useless. Can't even get a loan for school. My dad is giving me the money, God bless him! He sees all of this and realizes I have at least 20+ more years to work (and save, hopefully). I am really stressing tonight about my filing tommorrow. Thanks for "listening".

[Minnymouth]

My neices and nephews started buying new homes in the price range of $200,00............ I said WELL, how can you afford that? Especially on what they made and their big car payments also (new vehicles).....

Most of their homes were on 40-50 year mortgages............... buy at 20 or 22 years old and pay on it for the next 40 years or so....

Thats one way their buying them and the other is the interest only thing..... they never will pay anything on the principal probably....

They'll sell the homes when it comes to that part of the plan years down the road....

[SinkingFast]

I too hear all the negative about the "walmartization" of America, and all the low paying jobs being created and used to believe all this, but when you look at the original subject that started this thread about expensive houses just how can can Walmart wages pay these mortgages? I'm not taking any sides on the jobs numbers, but maybe one of you can explain how so many low income earners can buy all these expensive houses. Low income means less economic activity, which would mean less expensive houses. I don't see that. Again not taking any political sides, just don't understand where all the home buyers are coming from if everyone is poor.

Having a son who works at Wal-Mart and several adult friends as well, I can explain some of the Wal-Mart thing.

Most of the employees where son works are young people in college or older people on retirement. The kids are paying for school and the retirees are filling their time or supplementing their retirements.

There's also a chunk of adults who work there as their second job. Wal-Mart pays better than fast food places, offers their employees benefits, retirement savings plan, and paid vacation. Even part-timers get all that stuff. So if you work a full time job elsewhere that does not offer benefits, you can get benefits thru Wal-Mart.

And Wal-Mart pays everyone who works Sundays an extra $1/hour over their regular pay, and time and a half on Holidays. Plus, Wal-Mart is very flexible in scheduling. If you get hired, you tell them the hours you're available and they work around your schedule.

If you need off, and plan in advance of the schedule being made, they work around that too. Son has changed his work availability as his school schedule has changed. And son also planned time off a couple of times to go hunting last fall. He put in before the schedule was written up and they gave him the time off.

Most of Wal-Mart's employees are part-timers. But they do have a significant number of full time employees as well. Department managers, head cashiers, customer service managers and such at each and every store.

The gal that issued us our Driver's Licenses at the DMV works part-time at Wal-Mart. Has for 8 years. She likes it there because they pay better for a part-time job than other places and they work with her schedule. They've always been great about that, she said.

Son couldn't afford to buy a home on his pay. He can't even afford to rent an apartment. He saved money all semester in the Fall to pay his Spring tuition bill. Only way a Wal-Mart employee could afford to buy a home would be if they have a higher level full time job, or they work full time elsewhere.

I know they pay their Store Managers decent enough. I used to PTA with the wife of the Store Manager when our kids were in Elementary school. They've long since been transferred and moved on. Wal-Mart doesn't leave Store Managers in one place for a long time. They trade them around store to store. And it's company paid relocation.

[lilgoose]

And there's really no way someone making minimum wage can realistically expect to own a home. Owning a home isn't a right. It's something you have to work for if you really want it. You have to give up things. America is a really great place. Anyone can do anything if they want to. There aren't really any restrictions on how far you can go in life or how much you can succeed.

Yes, they can own a home...One that is MORE than they really can afford. It is called INTEREST ONLY LOANS. See, they can afford it today, tomorrow and for the next 5 to 10 years (providing the interest doesn't go sky high) BUT when the term is up on the interest only payments and they have to actually start paying on the principle that they have neglected all this time, it is then that they can't afford the same home they have been "renting" for the past years.

There will be a million plus foreclosures within the next 5 to 10 years due to this same situation.....

Oh, someone is playing TAPS off in the distance.....Let's all bow our heads and pray as we lay this dear country in it's final resting place.......