The American Dream no longer exists.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

Our economy totally sucks. I am going to light a fire with this one--Mr. Bush keeps saying that we have record numbers of people working. Also talks about all the job growth. Has the poor guy just not realized that most of the job growth he is talking about is coming from a Walmart being built on every corner. I mean, lets get real, Walmart is now our biggest employer. Nobody gets it!!!! They also do not pay medical insurance for their low paid employees. Guess who has to subsidize thoses people. You do--through medicaid. So is this so called employment surge a good thing. I predict it to get even more dire (by the way, my friends have always said I am an optimist). Winchester rifle, which is a good ole american company, been in business 100+ years is letting all their folks in Ohio go. Why? So they can move to china. Imagine that-the winchester rifle will now say on it---made in china!

I too hear all the negative about the "walmartization" of America, and all the low paying jobs being created and used to believe all this, but when you look at the original subject that started this thread about expensive houses just how can can Walmart wages pay these mortgages? I'm not taking any sides on the jobs numbers, but maybe one of you can explain how so many low income earners can buy all these expensive houses. Low income means less economic activity, which would mean less expensive houses. I don't see that. Again not taking any political sides, just don't understand where all the home buyers are coming from if everyone is poor.

[SinkingFast]

Pharma I do know. That's what Hubby does. Pharmaceutical research.

We started out with a wholly owned subsidiary of a huge multinational company. The parent company bought a 75% interest in another Pharma company and merged the 2 together. This all happened about the time Bill Clinton was trashing American Pharmaceutical companies in his campaigning for the Presidency, the first time.

Since then, Hubby's American Pharma company was sold to a German Pharma company. The German Pharma company didn't like traveling to the Midwest to visit a site, so they sold our location to an independent Pharmaceutical Contract Research Organization. CRO's have become the wave of the future. Here's where outsourcing comes in. Instead of the HUGE Pharma company using their own people to perform the R&D, they contract with a smaller company to perform that service for them.

Research and Development are outsourced to the CRO's. Jobs aren't actually lost in the USA, but people were displaced. Hubby's CRO had to cut jobs to convert a true R&D set up to a CRO. I can't count the rounds of lay-offs that Hubby dodged the bullet before his postion was eliminated. Plus, CRO's pay less with lesser benefits that cost more money outa pocket. People have less money in their pocket, but their costs to live in the same house go up, up, up.

The only true outsourcing to other countries in the US Pharma industry as a whole is the production of vaccines. There are NO, ZIP, ZERO, ZILCHO, NADA vaccines produced in the US anymore. They're all made in England, Germany, France, and now Japan. That's not just Flu vaccines. That's MMR, Oral Polio, DT, DPT, you name it. Not one vaccine manufacturing facility left in the US.

[Minnymouth]

I have to agree with debtisbad, I also saw the show on the new cars coming in from overseas. They will be underselling all our national brands. Maybe not better quality, but CHEAP...... Many a family will suffer when the auto business fails completely in our nation. Not just the Detroit people who make the cars, but all the little people that make the parts also...... all across our great land.....

[Minnymouth]

I didn't intend to "stir up a hornets nest" with my comments about immigrants...

But many of us do feel the same way about our kids, families, doing without education, college, etc at the expense of foreignors and immigrants. We bring people into our Nation, give them aid, housing, food, medical care, and set them up with some of the top paying jobs (post office, etc) that our nation offers. While men with families here in the USA can't find work.
Companies send their factories overseas to save a buck, people here loose their jobs, benefits, retirement, and then these companies send the products back to the USA - duty tax free - for us to purchase back from them.
China is our major importer. They import many times more quantity to us then we do them. They don't want our merchandise in their nation.... and keep us from importing to them.
I do beleive in trading with other nations, many have lots to offer us and we have lots to offer them. But a lot of them will limit our imports.... but we don't limit theirs.
A student here can't afford college, has trouble getting a grant or loan, and many will NEVER get to go to college. But a foreign student gets his tutition paid for, room and board, meals, and all his classes and books paid for. Something wrong with that PICTURE......
Our economy is going downhill very rapidly. What can we do about it? I don't know the answer to that. Wish I did!
I buy American made as much as I can - though some things are not made in the USA anymore.... so its a catch 22. Buy it or do without it!!
When I purchase something from a foreign country I often wonder if a "child" made it..... sat for 10-12 hours in a sweat shop, making something I was buying. I sure hope not!!
I firmly beleive in helping other countries, many are extremely poor nations, and without our help they would starve. But I also beleive in taking care of our Nation so it can grow and develop and prosper.

I loved my parents dearly, but I thank God everyday that I'm not as narrow-minded as my folks were about people, life, and society. They were from the old generation with the thinking that "everybody had their place" in society, no matter what the circumstances. My grandparents were even worse about issues.

I'm glad that I grew mentally above all that and have learned to embrace my fellow man, no matter what race, religion, or origin. Who knows, someday that person might save my life, or really be there when I need their help.

Many things like religion, sexual preference, interracial relationships are all PERSONAL CHOICES we make in our lives. We make our choices, we live with them! What's totally RIGHT for one person, make be completely WRONG for another. Whose to say my way is right, and yours is wrong or vise versa!

Some of you may not agree with my comments, that's understandable and I don't expect you too. Everybody has an opinion about things and their background and lifestyle echos those opinions.

My comments were not made to offend anyone - if I did it was not intentional.

I feel that the USA is the best Nation in the World, and I'm very proud to be an American (born and raised).

But I also feel that ANYONE that comes to our great land and wants to be a citizen is Welcome! But that person needs to understand that our Naton was founded and built thru hard work by most, and thru the blood, sweat, and tears of many!

Our Nation has grown over the years because of our EFFORTS, not because we all had a "free ride"............

[debtisbad]

I have heard (need to get a confirmation on this) that some of the pharma companies are outsourcing their r&d to india. Now outsourcing is not only affecting "blue collar" jobs but PhD's as well. Anyone heard of this? Also this one I do know. Radiology is being outsourced. It is cheaper to send the xrays over to india and have a radiologist look at them than to have radiology in the hospital look at them. They just "zap" the xrays back and forth between india and the united states. Now further food for thought, wait until the foreign (I mean Chinese) car companies start importing. This was the first year they were shown at the Detroit auto show. I believe the expectation date is 2008. Thing is, GM knows they missed with Kia, so they are trying to get on board and partner with these Chinese companies. Also take a look at the former eastern block countries. Anybody remember Yugo. Take a look at their new cars. I know I am going to get flamed for this but I don't give a da*m. The US is loosing its power by the minute, and no one does give a da*n. Think BK's are high now, folks, get ready. We are a Walmart nation.

[SinkingFast]

I'm sorry, but the ethnocentrism on this board is getting to be a little too much. The immigrants aren't the problem. The problem is the economy. I think you should all be ashamed. And, Minny, it is always people who say they aren't prejudiced who are truly prejudiced.

You should take a walk thru our Wal-Mart. It's like stepping into a Third World country. People of all races, creeds, and ethnic backgrounds come here to attend a world renouned University. A school known for it's Engineering program.

And they are, for the most part, subsidized by the American Taxpayer. My son is working his tail off to pay for college and these foreigners are getting free tuition, housing, and a stipend for food every month.

Excuse me??!! But isn't there something wrong with that picture??!!

American kids can't go to college because they can't afford to yet foreigners get free freight at our expense??!!

I'm not for closed borders. Foreigners are welcome to come, become American citizens, and work to seek their version of the American Dream. More power to 'em.

But cheating our own future??!! Kids that were born here??!! Kids that became citizens here??!! Not paying to educate them, while we pay to educate young people from many other countries??!! That is just plain WRONG!!

And if it's happening at this University, you can bet your a$$ it's happening at other major Universities across the country as well.

[Jenny]

A given median income means that half the incomes are higher and half are lower. The same with the median home price. Half the homes cost more and half cost less. If you make less than the median income, then you have to buy a cheaper house. There are fixer-uppers, small homes in small towns, all kinds of options.

I remember hearing about families who bought "starter homes" that were small, older, and relatively inexpensive. Kids shared bedrooms, and the whole family shared one bathroom. You start out small and simple, build equity (and don't borrow against it), and then if the house increases in value, you can "trade up" to a larger or newer home. No one should expect to enter the workforce and go out and buy a big, new, expensive house.

And there's really no way someone making minimum wage can realistically expect to own a home. Owning a home isn't a right. It's something you have to work for if you really want it. You have to give up things. America is a really great place. Anyone can do anything if they want to. There aren't really any restrictions on how far you can go in life or how much you can succeed.

Sure, it's scary as he**, but it's also kinda exciting.

[tired_of_debt]

I don't consider myself prejudiced either, Minny, but I feel the same way you do. I am in a field (medical transcription) ripe with foreign accents and difficult dictators which means my hourly rate goes down every time I see one of those names with more consonants than vowels. I was mugged at the age of 19 by a man who was not Caucasian. I ended up with 2 black eyes and two weeks' worth of earnings gone in a flash. I escaped with my life and I was grateful for that. The color of the man who mugged me is not nearly so important to me as was the fact that he did it. For a few hundred dollars. I won't even speculate as to his personal or financial circumstances or what made him mug a girl working from paycheck to paycheck. I have my theories that I will keep to myself. I went through a relationship with a man forced to pay alimony to a woman with whom he had no children and had a short-term marriage (under 5 years). She did not work until she started getting her alimony payments and then got a job and with her income and her alimony made more than he and I together (and he was a PhD scientist). I despise people who bemoan their plight but do nothing to change it. A recent trend in the transcription field is to send work overseas...to India of all places. They work cheap and the larger companies make out like fat rats, but the integrity of the medical record suffers as a result. I truly get aggravated when I have to call a help line or any such thing and end up speaking to someone whom I cannot understand well enough to even ask a question. I called true credit and got one such individual. Maybe I am prejudiced in some ways, but not in the sense that I believe I am better than any race, creed or color. I believe that we should all have equal opportunities but with that the equal responsibility that goes with those opportunities. I think the premise behind Lady Liberty's, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" has gone out of whack. We have homeless here in the good ol' US of A...many through no fault of their own. We have hungry kids here in the US of A and children are blameless and innocent in that regard. Instead of reaching out to third world countries to solve their woes, there are plenty of things that need to be addressed here in the US of A. Instead of allowing those who have no interest in becoming citizens to come in and grab the gravy and run, hell if it was me...put up an electric fence around the borders. If they want in that badly, they can do it legally or suffer the consequences.

[robivi3]

Minny, caveats only have to added for come-and-go IDJOTS who fritter around our little town here, make a splash and leave. You know what i am referring to. Don't ever apologize for a GOOD opinion and the right statement. You are saying what we REALLY feel but what most people are afraid to say, so instead we talk the politically correct psycho-babble to appease those who would hate us anyway. You know my family make-up, a UN of sorts, but you are UTTERLY right.

[debtisbad]

Our economy totally sucks. I am going to light a fire with this one--Mr. Bush keeps saying that we have record numbers of people working. Also talks about all the job growth. Has the poor guy just not realized that most of the job growth he is talking about is coming from a Walmart being built on every corner. I mean, lets get real, Walmart is now our biggest employer. Nobody gets it!!!! They also do not pay medical insurance for their low paid employees. Guess who has to subsidize thoses people. You do--through medicaid. So is this so called employment surge a good thing. I predict it to get even more dire (by the way, my friends have always said I am an optimist). Winchester rifle, which is a good ole american company, been in business 100+ years is letting all their folks in Ohio go. Why? So they can move to china. Imagine that-the winchester rifle will now say on it---made in china!

[Minnymouth]

And yes, I do agree that our ECONOMY is beginning to suck!!!
Changes need to take place in our government, its time we tried to take care of what we have here at home. Help those overseas, but don't cut our own throats while we're doing it.....

[Minnymouth]

Pinktiger,
I don't have a prejudice bone in my body.....

But I also don't think that people are entitled to "everything in life" because they don't want to work for it!

The color of a persons skin is of no importance to me....... the nation they come from doesn't matter either...

But when they "want something for nothing" - the ole "free ride", then I draw the line.....

I don't call that prejudice...........

I live, work, and socialize in a world with white, black, hispanic, italian, british, german, swedish, people from all nationalties. I have no problem with any of them. Some are like brothers and sisters too me and I would do anything for them.

If you consider me prejudice because I resent supporting "someone who won't work" and "wants a free ride in life" - then so be it!!!

Sorry you feel that way about me....

Minny

[Pinktiger]

I'm sorry, but the ethnocentrism on this board is getting to be a little too much. The immigrants aren't the problem. The problem is the economy. I think you should all be ashamed. And, Minny, it is always people who say they aren't prejudiced who are truly prejudiced.

[Minnymouth]

Gosh - Guess I'm Thru Venting For The Afternoon.............!!!!!!

[Minnymouth]

And DON'T MIS-UNDERSTAND ME when I speak out about this............ many of my friends here in KY are from Hondurus.......but they are also legal........
Fine people, hard working, all struggling to learn english....
Some have been here 10 years......

So I am not a prejudice person. God created all mankind, not just little ole "white" me!!!

Minny