Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Citi Mortgage claiming money owed AFTER being discharged!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Citi Mortgage claiming money owed AFTER being discharged!

    HI everyone.

    My Chpt 13 was discharged as of early Oct 2014 – YES! Got the official letter and everything from the trustee’s office. So what’s the problem?

    Well you know how after you are discharged, the trustee’s office sends out a notice of discharge to all your previous creditors that are listed in your claim summary? Well, they did that and Citi (my secondary mortgage – I took it out during those now infamous sub-prime piggyback mortgage loan days) came back saying that I still owed them a whopping $36,000!

    Back in 2010 when I first filed for BK, Citi had originally put in a claim for the full amount owed to them of $76,000. This was the amount that I owed and the same amount I also made my attorney and trustee aware of when we filed my paperwork. Then right before the plan was confirmed, Citi withdrew the claim for the full $76K and instead put in two separate claims of $750 each –totaling $1500. My BK plan was then confirmed with the amounts owed to Citi as $1500 (listed as “secured mortgage arrears”). My trustee administered and paid the entire amount of $1500 from the very get-go. During the entire five years, neither my attorney nor I ever heard further from Citi about any additional amounts owed outside of the $1500 or why they withdrew the original claim of $76K. I know that by law, Citi could not have contact with me but they did have my attorney’s information, and I know that anything that came from any creditors, I would’ve forwarded directly to the attorney to deal with.

    Now that Citi is getting the notice of discharge, they are claiming that I owed them about $36,000 for the past five years of what they claim are payments of $650 a month! This is the first my attorney and I have heard of it and we never agreed to this. There was never any intention of making payments outside of the BK towards the secondary mortgage as I was obligated to pay about 88% into the BK plan and there was no way I could have afforded to pay off my monthly BK payments and an additional $650 a month to Citi.

    Our guess is that someone at Citi screwed up back in 2010 when they withdrew the original amount and put in the smaller amounts. Somehow my recent discharge papers flagged something, so Citi is trying to fix their mistake.

    Thoughts? Anyone else come across similar issues with Citi? I hope I didn’t go through all this blood, sweat and lots of tears for the past five years for naught

    My attorney is looking into this and we are working directly with the trustee's office as well as reaching out to other BK attorneys for their opinion.

  • #2
    This is a very frequent occurrence after a Chapter 13 has been discharged and the Chapter 13 Plan included payments to the lender. Typically, the lender, behind the scenes, acts as if there is no bankruptcy when it comes to the accounting. The lender then keeps doing things like putting money into suspense accounts, then taking it out when it reaches a certain amount... all while charging late fees and other fees. This is actually not allowed in a Chapter 13 with some caveats. The caveat being that you could not have any "post-petition" late payments. If the mortgage is being paid by the Trustee (and "through" the plan), then there could be no late payments and the creditor could only go back into Court to seek any fees.

    I am sure Citi will correct their mistake or your attorney will pounce on them for violating the discharge injunction. It really does happen more often than one would hope. It's just the nature of the Chapter 13 and moreso the accounting systems used by the creditors.

    Since your attorney is on top of this -- as well as the Trustee -- I would rest assured that this will all be behind you soon.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Congrats on completion! Don't you have to do a lien strip to get rid of second mortgages?
      Discharge date: October 2017 (will it ever get here?)

      Comment


      • #4
        dmc has raised the correct question. Digger. . . please pull your copy of the Chapter 13 Plan AND the Order Confirming the Plan. Find the provisions in both that specifically apply to the loan in question. Post the exact provisions (leaving out any personal info) to this Forum so that we can see exactly how your lender was treated.

        Des.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with dmc and des in that your original post mentioned paying $1500 in arrears which implies your plan was to continue payments on the loan rather than including it in the amounts related to a lien strip claim.

          Sounds like you and the attorney were on different pages the entire time, but if the mortgage company were expecting a monthly payment I am sure they would have reported the late payments in the first year of your filing.
          11/23/'10-filed ch 13. 1/6/'11-341, confirmed. Below median. Plan completed 11/30/2015. DISSCHARGED 4/4/2016.JP

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, I totally missed that.
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think Judge WJ is the only judge in CA that requires an adversarial proceeding to complete a lien strip. My additional fees are estimated at $2K and I found out well into my fourth year of five. Not cool when I already paid extra in the beginning to have a judge approve it in the beginning.
              11/23/'10-filed ch 13. 1/6/'11-341, confirmed. Below median. Plan completed 11/30/2015. DISSCHARGED 4/4/2016.JP

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't think there is a lien strip. The plan would not pay arrears if the lien was being stripped. Also, if the lien was being stripped, CitiMortgage likely would have filed an unsecured claim like they did in my case.

                My questions as I read this post were "did the plan provide for regular monthly payments to CitiMortgage in addition to the arrears" and if not, "did Diggerdog501 make monthly payments during the plan". I agree with Des that in order for us to help, Diggerdog501 should post the details of his plan and order confirming the plan. It sounds to me like Diggerdog501 did not think he should be making monthly payments directly to CitiMortgage. I hope that is consistent with what was in the confirmed plan.
                Last edited by LadyInTheRed; 11-09-2014, 11:24 PM.
                LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                Comment


                • #9
                  If the 2nd was considered secured, wouldn't payments be made directly to CITI ?

                  Could it be that CITI was considered secured all along and the payments were to be made directly just like the 1st mortgage ?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ABC View Post
                    If the 2nd was considered secured, wouldn't payments be made directly to CITI ?

                    Could it be that CITI was considered secured all along and the payments were to be made directly just like the 1st mortgage ?
                    Payments are typically direct if you have arrears. Of course, that depends on your District, whether secured payments are presumptively required to be paid through the plan (by the Trustee), or the debtor motioned to make payments directly.

                    It's an interesting issue.
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Diggerdog, I might be piling on here, but check Line 6 of you Ch 13 plan ("The Debtor shall make regular payments directly to the following creditors:") Do you have any of your secures loans listed there? My first mortgage, HEL and HELOC are all listed there and I pay monthly payments directly to the lenders as I have pre-petition. My arrearages/past due on all three secured loans are paid via the Ch 13 plan through the Trustee.

                      On my Proofs of Claim the claim amount is the full amount of my secured loans. The arrearage is listed separately on the POC. If you check NDC.org, the arrearage is listed as "Max Pay Amount", while the "claim amount" is the full amount that you owe on the loan
                      Last edited by switch625; 11-09-2014, 12:49 PM.

                      Comment

                      Unconfigured Ad Widget

                      Collapse
                      Working...
                      X