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After I have gone to a Bk7 lawyers, then to a Dr. that rec. surgery, BK7 problem?

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  • After I have gone to a Bk7 lawyers, then to a Dr. that rec. surgery, BK7 problem?

    If after I have gone to a Bk7 lawyers for a consultation, and then to a Dr. that recommends expensive surgery, could that create a BK problem?

    I was thinking of going to see several Bk7 lawyer for options. If after i have seen the BK lawyers,

    I go see my dr and they recommend expensive necessary surgery for me ,

    would that mean the Bk could be in trouble

    because I added the surgery expense after I suspected I might have to BK?

    Could that be an expense that puts the BK7 in jeopardy?

    What is the rock solid truth on that?

    How does all that work legally?

    Thank you for your experience, knowledge, and clarity on this.

  • #2
    slvnomore, you are really over thinking things. Your questions are getting less and less rational. If you qualify for a Chap 7, having additional expenses is not going to hurt your BK. If anything, it will help. Do you have a reason to think you need surgery? Or is this more fear talking?

    Go consult with some attorneys!
    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
      slvnomore, you are really over thinking things. Your questions are getting less and less rational. If you qualify for a Chap 7, having additional expenses is not going to hurt your BK. If anything, it will help. Do you have a reason to think you need surgery? Or is this more fear talking?

      Go consult with some attorneys!
      Would agree. Surgery is not considered a luxury item and any debt something like medical creates will be discharged.
      In fact, this is good pre bk planning.

      Comment


      • #4
        You may be right, but at least its in the direction of seeing att now... ; )

        Thanks, to clarify, so it doesn't legally matter if I see a Bk att. for a consultation before a, dr, dentist or incur other medical expenses as long, as they are incurred before I actually file bk7, correct?

        Comment


        • #5
          Correct. You aren't expected to stop taking care of yourself because you consulted with a BK attorney. The only way the date of consultations is going to be an issue is if you start incurring debt before your BK and a creditor objects to dischargeability. If the debt does not meet the requirements for being presumed to be dischargeable and the creditor has to prove that you incurred it without the intent to pay, then the date of your consultation with an attorney MIGHT be used as evidence. You aren't going to start charging up your credit cards right befor filing, right? So, there is no reason not to meet with attorneys.

          Have you made appointments for consultations with 3 attorneys? I think I'm going to answer all of your questions with that question until you do.
          LadyInTheRed is in the black!
          Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
          $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

          Comment


          • #6
            lol thanks for the gentle loving nudge.

            I am,

            1) gathering the info for the first meeting

            2) putting together my questions

            3) choosing 3 attorneys to start.

            4) asking questions as they arise, that might affect timing.

            just to be clear, if you have insurance and you go in and the dr says you need surgery, but you already saw a bK att
            so you have at least a questionable intent, does that mean a medical creditor could object to dischargabilty? as you have already seen a bk att?

            I am unclear here. thanks!

            Comment


            • #7
              My mother went to the ER shortly before filing. If it's a medical expense, you won't have any problems.
              Filed CH7 9/24/2010, 341 on 10/28/2010, Disch.&Closed: 1/6/2011. FICO EX: 9/2: 672.
              FICO EQ: pre-filing: 573, After BK Public Record: 568, 10/3: 673.
              FICO TU: pre-filing: 589, After BK Public Record: 563, 9/2: 706.

              Comment


              • #8
                Don't worry, take care of your health, then file BK once you're better. The only time that a presumption of fraud arises is if you incur debt to buy non-essential items when you know (or should know) that you can't possibly repay the funds. For example, if you max out your credit cards taking a vacation, buying a new plasma TV, new Alienware laptop, stuff like that.

                Even if you used your credit cards to buy food, medicine, fuel before filing, you'd still be ok. Medical bills won't even raise the slightest suspicion, because they are presumed to be necessary.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by slvnomore View Post
                  just to be clear, if you have insurance and you go in and the dr says you need surgery, but you already saw a bK att
                  so you have at least a questionable intent, does that mean a medical creditor could object to dischargabilty? as you have already seen a bk att?
                  Your original question was very clear. Re-wording it doesn't change the answer. Nobody can guaranty that a creditor won't object to dischargeablity. But, we can tell you that the fact that you consulted with a BK attorney before a doctor's appointment at which you are told you need surgery is not evidence that you have questionable intent if you try to discharge the resulting medical debt in BK. What are they going to say? That you intentionally made yourself sick so that you can incur debt and get it discharged? A creditor would be foolish to waste the time and money objecting to discharge with only that argument.

                  Originally posted by bcohen View Post
                  Don't worry, take care of your health, then file BK once you're better.
                  bcohen, slvnomore apparently has no actual current medical issues. Or at least he/she hasn't said so when asked. He/she is afraid because of witnessing many loved ones incurring significant medical expenses from catastrophic illnesses. It's sad and scary to have to watch that. But, if you are currently healthy and unable to handle your current debt, avoiding filing BK because you MIGHT get sick and not be able to file BK again for 8 years is not rational.
                  Last edited by LadyInTheRed; 05-14-2013, 04:37 PM.
                  LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                  Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                  $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As I posted in another thread, I am seriously close to filing BK.

                    Today, my wife went to a Dr for her annual, and was told she needed outpatient surgery. (We're on Medicaid, but this procedure is not covered). Just to be clear, from this thread, it appears that there is no danger of this being considered fraud, right? Even though we would be incurring bills for which have no ability to pay and know that we will be filing bankruptcy sometime this year. Correct?
                    Last edited by avengers; 03-04-2014, 06:42 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Avengers,

                      A necessary medical procedure does not create a problem - at least I have never seen such happen. Just make sure all treatment is done before filing.

                      Des.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by despritfreya View Post
                        Avengers,

                        A necessary medical procedure does not create a problem - at least I have never seen such happen. Just make sure all treatment is done before filing.
                        Des, 'Hub and I had different problems apparently.

                        'Hub had an 'incident' with a skil saw and his abdomen on November 3 2007. I had fallen in the bathroom--not the tub--on August 18 2007. I broke my right arm and left knee, and 'Hub had the requisite care required concerning a skil-saw across the abdomen situation.

                        Our attorney was told of all these events. Since it takes months for medical payments to wend their way through the insurance nightmare that was true in 2007, our attorney told us to put a '$1.00' as a placeholder in our paperwork. Then, when we learned what the TRUE figure was, then we would fill the proper numbers in and go from there.

                        Except that the medical provider for my arm and knee, tried to prioritize their claim above that of the IRS, which was our major creditor. That was denied big time.

                        Then the medical provider kept dunning us for services rendered. Yes, most were rendered well before we filed, but there were two follow ups after we filed, which should have been part of the follow-up package.

                        Oh well, we sent C & D letters with our Discharge Order a couple of times, and that was that.

                        I would really like to have paid these people, they did me well with my physical care. But when they ignored the BK laws and tried to best the IRS, then all bets are off.

                        In my mind, 'follow up care' is 'follow up care'. That is how our attorney chose to handle it.
                        "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

                        "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by AngelinaCat View Post
                          most were rendered well before we filed, but there were two follow ups after we filed, which should have been part of the follow-up package. . .In my mind, 'follow up care' is 'follow up care'. That is how our attorney chose to handle it.
                          Interesting but the reality is that follow up care post filing is a post petition debt and is not subject to the discharge. Now, can a medical care provider be "bluffed" - possibly. And. . . shame on your creditor for attempting to assert a priority claim.

                          Years ago I had a client who had no insurance, about $80k in meds and was needing a transplant. The client was being chased by various creditors so I put him/her in a $75/month Chapter 13 as a delay tactic. I did not want the 7 because I knew he/she would be incurring major medicals subsequent to filing bk. About a year or so into the case the client got word that an organ had been found for the transplant. I dismissed the 13. The client left the state for the procedure and about a year later (now healthy) came back. I then put him/her into a 7 and discharge the $80k plus the new $100k in medicals. The plan worked beautifully.

                          Des.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by despritfreya View Post
                            Interesting but the reality is that follow up care post filing is a post petition debt and is not subject to the discharge. Now, can a medical care provider be "bluffed" - possibly. And. . . shame on your creditor for attempting to assert a priority claim.
                            Des.
                            Fascinating. I had not known this. Thank you for clarifying these matters. I had wondered how this medical provider thought they could make the claims they did.
                            "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

                            "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ah des! i am right there with you. what you did for your clients planning is exceptional.

                              slvnomore: if you need to get the surgery, get it done prior to the bk. that may be difficult, i understand but it should be pre not post bk. as des points out if this expense no matter medical or anything else, is done after you file and are discharged or closed you will be responsible.

                              also as angelinacat points outs when you file you can either put the dollar, i prefer the term "unknown" on your petition as opposed to any number.

                              medical necessary procedures that are needed i agree with all the above comments, just get it done. now, if you go out and get a face lift that may cause an issue.
                              Last edited by tobee43; 03-05-2014, 08:05 AM.
                              8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

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