Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Bankruptcy after Retirement: Ch 7 or Ch 13?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Question: Bankruptcy after Retirement: Ch 7 or Ch 13?

    My dad, who is in his late 70s, has gotten himself into too much unsecured debt. He has assets, which are all in retirement accounts (IRAs) and investments (stock). Also a house, under a mortgage but not (thankfully) under water. About 1/3 of the debt is an unsecured loan is left over from a business loan that he personally secured, for a business that he sold more than 10 years ago.

    He keeps drawing on his retirement funds to supplement his social security, just so he can service all the debt. He's thinking about bankruptcy, but I'm not sure whether the fact that he has retirement income (social security and small dividends) means he should consider Ch 13, or if he could file Ch 7 and keep his retirement accounts intact (and keep his house). I'm also concerned that he will lose the good credit he has, and never be able to rebuild it because he's retired.

    I searched through the forums, but I could not find any posts about retired people filing for bankruptcy. If there are threads about this topic that already exist, please point me to them!

    (I joined this site about 6 years ago after filing bk myself, have rebuilt my credit, and am very glad to have this resource to turn to in this difficult time for my family. Thank you for listening!)
    Last edited by tess_bk; 06-28-2012, 01:15 AM. Reason: Correct the # of years ago I joined this site! Thought it was 10 but it was only 6.
    Filed: August, 2003
    Discharged: Thanksgiving Eve, 2003

    Total Consumer Debt Granted Since BK: $6,100
    Total Consumer Debt Left to Pay Off: $1,300 (Plus $50K+ in Student Loans ... )

  • #2
    Traditional retirement accounts are generally safe in a Ch 7, depending on what they are, how big they are, and how they are structured, but I would strongly advise your dad to meet with a couple attorneys to go through all the finer points. You might consider going with him as an extra set of ears. The 2005 changes to BK law made it very difficult for retirement funds to be considered part of the bankruptcy estate, but there are exceptions.

    And, why not sit with Dad to plan his budget for post-BK so the problem does not arise again?

    In my opinion, all seniors should get a freebie Ch 7 the day before they turn 65.

    Comment


    • #3
      At his age he should stop worrying about his credit rating. Seriously, what does he need it for? Not worth liquidating your retirement for. Better he should learn to live on cash. I mean this in the nicest way but... Nobody's CR ever got engraved on their tombstone.

      I'd be concerned about the house. Any idea what his equity situation is?
      Lots of mention here about people who are collecting SS and pensions, but usually there isn't much in the way of assets. Mainly the discussion tends to center on how the funds are collection proof.

      Get an idea of the value of his assets and have a sit down asap with a coupla three lawyers.

      Keep On Smilin'

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by keepsmiling View Post
        Better he should learn to live on cash.
        I agree. I've been telling him that if he doesn't want to do a bk, he should just take as much as he can out of his retirement accounts and pay everything off! (Well, except for the business one, which I think he should negotiate down, and then pay off.)

        Originally posted by keepsmiling View Post
        I'd be concerned about the house. Any idea what his equity situation is?
        He bought his house in 2006 at an inflated price; he's sunk a lot into it, but refinanced recently to lower his payment, and now owes about 10-20K less than what he might be able to sell it for. Not a lot of equity.

        So now, I need to ask a silly question - he doesn't have a lot of cash flow, so he'd have to pull some money out of one of his retirement funds to pay for a pre-BK consultation with a BK lawyer. Anyone know how much they might charge?
        Filed: August, 2003
        Discharged: Thanksgiving Eve, 2003

        Total Consumer Debt Granted Since BK: $6,100
        Total Consumer Debt Left to Pay Off: $1,300 (Plus $50K+ in Student Loans ... )

        Comment


        • #5
          My concern would be his investment portfolio (stocks). If they are not tied to an IRA or similar retirement plan they may be at risk. Your dad needs to make sure the stock and the income stream it produces can be covered by an exemption. If not and he does not want to lose the asset he will be looking at a Chapter 13 if he chooses bk.

          He need not pull any money out now. Consultations are usually free. Once he decides if he is going to file and what Chapter then he can think about how to pay for it.

          Des.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tess_bk View Post
            I agree. I've been telling him that if he doesn't want to do a bk, he should just take as much as he can out of his retirement accounts and pay everything off! (Well, except for the business one, which I think he should negotiate down, and then pay off.)



            He bought his house in 2006 at an inflated price; he's sunk a lot into it, but refinanced recently to lower his payment, and now owes about 10-20K less than what he might be able to sell it for. Not a lot of equity.

            So now, I need to ask a silly question - he doesn't have a lot of cash flow, so he'd have to pull some money out of one of his retirement funds to pay for a pre-BK consultation with a BK lawyer. Anyone know how much they might charge?
            The consultation (up to a half hour, at least) should be free, and he could take his latest account statements with him when he meets with one. I don't know how much your dad has in retirement accounts, but an IRA is exempt up to a little over one million dollars. I am in a somewhat similar situation as your dad, it sounds like, but am still working as much as I can find. And I had been using my retirement funds to pay my credit card debt because I just never seriously considered (outright rejected bk when a good friends suggested it a couple years ago, even, I was that stupid!) not paying it all. So I really hope your dad doesn't pay them all off, unless the amount is trifling in comparison to his account. Getting used to bad or mediocre credit is not nearly as frightening as the spectre of (myself) living under a bridge passing the Riunite.
            Last edited by kawh; 07-31-2012, 06:51 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kawh View Post
              Getting used to bad or mediocre credit is not nearly as frightening as the spectre of (myself) living under a bridge passing the Reunite.
              This is a GREAT quote! It should be a board motto, standard advice for all newcomers. (with the spelling fixed, not to be insulting but I'm a litltle anal about that- or we could just change it to Mad Dog lol) Now to find a nice pic to go with it and we are all set.

              Keep On Smilin'

              Comment


              • #8
                Thx keepsmiling, it is fixed I hope. Don't often have to spell that particular variety.

                Comment


                • #9
                  We could substitute Mad Dog or Ripple...
                  "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

                  "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for all the helpful suggestions!
                    Filed: August, 2003
                    Discharged: Thanksgiving Eve, 2003

                    Total Consumer Debt Granted Since BK: $6,100
                    Total Consumer Debt Left to Pay Off: $1,300 (Plus $50K+ in Student Loans ... )

                    Comment

                    Unconfigured Ad Widget

                    Collapse
                    Working...
                    X