AP notice received today ... scared ... stressed ... long story thanks for helping

[scbendel]

You don't have enough posts yet. You are blocked right now from sending or receiving PMs. I cannot tell you what the magic number is on the public side, and I can't PM you either. The Admin of the site had to install those restrictions a year ago when the forum was being hit by spambots and other vermin.

Cat, that'd be okay with me. I'd like as many pointers as I can get. Thank you!

[despritfreya]

At this point, has a judge even seen the complaint? Is this something that a judge can look at without our input and see if it stands? Or are we basically going back to court now?

The answer is "no". The Judge does not get involved until a responsive pleading (usually the Answer) is filed. Depending upon which Judge, he/she will either set an initial status/scheduling conference or have the Plaintiff obtain a date for the conference and notify the Defendant.

Des.

[AngelinaCat]

Yeah, no go on the PM. Talk about stress...ugh

Scbendel, I can look into your profile, and get the email edress that you used to sign up. If you are comfortable with the idea of us emailing each other, I can send the name to Des via PM.

[AngelinaCat]

You don't have enough posts yet. You are blocked right now from sending or receiving PMs. I cannot tell you what the magic number is on the public side, and I can't PM you either. The Admin of the site had to install those restrictions a year ago when the forum was being hit by spambots and other vermin.

[tobee43]

Yeah, no go on the PM. I can say that their attorney ALWAYS waits the longest he can to file anything, I'm assuming it's to maximize his fees. Once I get the copy of the complaint, I will post most of it here.

At this point, has a judge even seen the complaint? Is this something that a judge can look at without our input and see if it stands? Or are we basically going back to court now?

Talk about stress...ugh

wow you have 12 posts, what does it take nowadays to be able to PM's???? keep posting until you hit the "magic" number but lets find out what that number is...maybe lady or ms cat is about and can let you know.

[tobee43]

I really appreciate the reply!! I love Arizona...lol. I'll try and PM you now. Thank you again.

you could not be in better hands! des is absolutely the BEST! i'm so happy he responded (i'm certain ms cat reached out as well)

we have such great people on this site!

[scbendel]

Yeah, no go on the PM. I can say that their attorney ALWAYS waits the longest he can to file anything, I'm assuming it's to maximize his fees. Once I get the copy of the complaint, I will post most of it here.

At this point, has a judge even seen the complaint? Is this something that a judge can look at without our input and see if it stands? Or are we basically going back to court now?

Talk about stress...ugh

[scbendel]

I really appreciate the reply!! I love Arizona...lol. I'll try and PM you now. Thank you again.

[despritfreya]

Ok, so the creditor opened an adversary proceeding, filed a complaint and requested that the summons be issued. So far, not a problem.

1. The Clerk of the Court will probably issue the Summons tomorrow.
2. The creditor has 14 days from the issuance of the Summons to serve it and the Complaint by regular mail on you.
3. If properly served you have 30 days from the date of the issuance of the Summons to file an Answer.

You need to get a copy of the Complaint. We need to know if the Complaint references 11 USC 523(a)(2), (a)(4) or (a)(6) (maybe one or more of them). And. . . stop thinking “criminal”. You are in a civil proceeding. Either you win or you lose or you settle. It is just money - yes I realize you don’t have any - but this is not a criminal matter.

As to the arbitration award, it has no real impact unless there were specific findings of fact and conclusions of law that rise to the level of one of the above listed 523 sections. I tend to doubt that it does but stranger things have happened.

Once you get a copy of the Complaint read it carefully and report back exactly what the creditor claims you did or did not do to justify not having this claim discharged.

As to hiring an attny. . . yes you need to speak to several. The problem is that you are dealing with a $16k issue. You do not want to go to trial as it will cost more than $16k in legal fees. You want to try to settle this.

I do not know how many posts you need to do before you can send private messages. Once you can, if you feel comfortable, PM me. I would like to know who the attny on the creditor’s side is. I may be able to tell you if you are dealing with a straight shooter or an ambulance chaser. - And, just so you know, I will not be able to guide you in defending this. I may be able to give you pointers but, since I practice in Arizona, I cannot really get involved.

Des.

[scbendel]

Thank you a bunch AngelinaCat!!

[AngelinaCat]

I don't remember exactly how our AP was presented to us, but I am pretty sure that it came in the mail. I will have to look through my paperwork.

I just PMd one of our attorney members who also is in Arizona. Hopefully you will get some insight a little later tonight.

[scbendel]

Thank you again tobee43. I'm trying to relax as we speak...

[scbendel]

LadyInTheRed, from what I'm reading, I have 14 days from being served. I haven't been served yet, so I'm going to gather all of my options and make a decision and go from there. These guys really have me up in arms today. All of this while I'm trying to work too...which has made today ridiculously hard to bare.

[tobee43]

tobee43, THANK YOU. I am going to try and contact a few attorneys tomorrow and see where to go from here. I guess I'm worrying now more about the criminal aspect of this, since they're using such big words that weren't brought up in arbitration. I guess if they DID have proof, they would have already tried to prosecute criminally, no?

absolutely, and your atty will clearly point that out. i know it's hard for me to tell you relax, but this will run it's course, either way. it's just a bump in the road, and you just have to move it to the side and get on with your lives.

i have been through one, so it's hard to hear people tell all these lies, but in the end, we won. our opponent had a bit of twist on their argument claiming theirs was a "secured" debt as opposed to non secured. here's the kicker, i knew the debt was not secured but the atty we hired said and told us, sorry you have to pay them and it was approx 25k. i said NO way, i have all the documents that the loan was secured by inventory. i have inventory left, so let them have at it. no way was it personally guarantee, no collateral other than inventory. period. we ended up having to hire yet another atty for the AP and won with ease. my point in telling you this is to also let you know not all AP's are based on the argument of fraud.

i'm with you, if they had the proof THEN they would have used it. good, get the best atty you can, i really think it's going be fine. also, check your records and see if you can find the final decision from the arbitration that might help give you more insight to where they are going or trying to go with this. it's always best to be one step ahead if you can be.

[LadyInTheRed]

tobee43, THANK YOU. I am going to try and contact a few attorneys tomorrow and see where to go from here. I guess I'm worrying now more about the criminal aspect of this, since they're using such big words that weren't brought up in arbitration. I guess if they DID have proof, they would have already tried to prosecute criminally, no?

They are probably just using that language to try to convince the court that the debt is not dischargeable.