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Cigna only Health Insurance Plan Offered through Lockheed Martin

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    Cigna only Health Insurance Plan Offered through Lockheed Martin

    My husband is about to schedule an interview with Lockheed Martin. We have since learned that Lockheed Martin only offers CIGNA health and dental plans. I have been reading dozens of frightening and 100% negative online reviews about how they deny every claim and cover nothing. Should he accept the job (if offered) and somehow not pay for the terrible coverage offered and find insurance elsewhere or forego insurance altogether?
    Does any one have CIGNA through Lockheed Martin and what is your experience getting your medical care covered? (My husband has a major crown and root canal that Delta would have paid for in March and he needs new glasses as well. I need gyno visits and name brand BC pills ,continued chiro care and more dental work (not yet diagnosed.) Also glasses down the road.)
    Please advise - he is fearful of a lay off coming this year and he would only get around 4 months severance pay. He has worked for almost 15 years straight at R. and now is in a very precarious position with this company. He just turned 49 and needs to work somewhere for 16 more years at least.

    #2
    Hi Barbsi...I am sure there isn't one health insurance company that doesn't have nightmare stories written about them (real or perceived). 2 things - I use to have Cigna...it was fine and I never had any problems with them. Second - Lockheed Martin is a huge organization...I can not imagine them having insurance that causes grief for their employees. Don't stress yourself over something that may not even be a a problem. (Perhaps ask the HR manager to view their medical plan to see how it works and what is and isn't covered)
    Filed Chapter 13 - 07/20/12
    Discharged 8/2/16

    Comment


      #3
      I went from United Healthcare (now a CVS Company) to Cigna Edge PPO and I'm loving it. I think the nightmares come when the chosen plan does not cover certain things or only partially covers things. Of course we all know that you get a lower premium by having a higher deductible and higher copays. Even though it is Cigna, there are different plans at different costs. I just switched to that Cigna Edge PPO after having the regular ($2,000 deductible) Cigna PPO. It made a big difference for me, and I'm only paying $128/month just for me (my company is very generous with the portion that they pay).

      When you chose a plan you must look through each specific plan, what it covers, and what you think that you'll need that year. I did the "self insured" (high deductible plan with $4,000 deductible) for a few year, but then started (back) with the PPO plan. My eye doctor's appointment alone was $192 this year which would be paid in full given the plan that I now pay for (Cigna PPO). I also have a Cigna Dental Plan. Looking at the dental plan, I can see where it only covers up to 80% on many things.

      It's just the fact of (employer provided) insurance these days. In the past, the Fortune 100 employers had generous plans which were free of both cost and deductibles to the employee. Today, my employer will buy me an HDCP (high deductible) plan and I don't have to pay, but it's $4-$8K from my pocket before it kicks in. We have to weigh our costs... add them up for the year... and determine which plan actually "pays" for itself. I had a family plan (EPO, top tier, no deductibles) that was over $1,100/month which is when we switched to the high deductible ($4K per person/$8K family deductible versus $13,000/year through the "all inclusive" plan).
      Last edited by justbroke; 12-29-2018, 07:15 PM.
      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

      Comment


        #4
        justbroke - Hi! Are you saying United Healthcare is now owned by CVS????? The company plan I'm on was with United Health care but is switching to Anthem Blue Cross/Blue Shield effective January 1st. I'm just asking cause that's an interesting bit of information. I read that CVS is or has bought Aetna but can't find anything about United Health Care. Thanks.
        Last edited by sophieanne; 12-29-2018, 04:32 PM.
        Filed Chapter 13 - 07/20/12
        Discharged 8/2/16

        Comment


          #5
          Ooops... CVS bought Aetna. I only wish they bought UHC.

          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

          Comment


            #6
            Barbsi, Justbroke hit the nail on the head. I was thinking along the same lines. My job has Anthem, but there are different Anthem plans depending on what you choose. As for eye and dental I do not know Cigna. On my job we have one choice for Vision, but our Dental has two different plans, the higher cost plan provides more coverage--and in both dental and vision there are preferred providers and if you use them insurance pays more.

            Comment


              #7
              I work in healthcare, so felt I could chime in and perhaps offer something useful for a change, instead of always lurking.

              As others have said, I wouldn't worry so much about the fact that the insurance is Cigna - companies have great leeway in what plans are offered to their employees, and some may offer only minimal coverage while others offer something very robust. I'm sure with a company the size of LM there would be a plan that meets your coverage needs, as they can leverage their costs much better than a smaller company.

              As an example of what I'm talking about, there are two area employers that offer the same plan - we'll pretend that the name of the insurance is Cigna. Company #1 (larger) offers coverage through Cigna and their employees have excellent/comprehensive coverage, while Company #2 (smaller) also offers Cigna but it only provides minimal/basic coverage, and their employees hate it. And with today's culture and social media, those who are disgruntled and unhappy are the ones who are more likely to share that, so most likely what you are reading is skewed to the negative and may not be truly representative of all who have Cigna.

              What you don't want to do is consider not purchasing their coverage and going without, or to think that you'll get better coverage by purchasing it elsewhere. Plans currently available for purchase through the "Marketplace" (for persons who are uninsured) are not going to come close to the equivalent of what is offered by LM, unless you are paying thousands of dollars in premiums and deductibles before the plan even begins to cover the first cent. I personally know of patients with Marketplace plans who would have to pay $15-20k out of pocket initially, which essentially leaves them uninsured because they can't possibly do so. Or, the only plan affordable to them provides only the most basic coverage, and is for the most part useless because it covers only catastrophic illness and nothing in the way of preventative care, let alone add-ons such as dental and vision.

              So, if your husband has the possibility to work for a large company like LM, don't worry so much about the plan and allow your insurance fears to sabotage that opportunity. It sounds like more stable employment for him would be the real need and longer-term goal. Good luck with everything and I hope he gets the job.

              Comment


                #8
                Thank you all for your detailed responses!
                I think our biggest concern is LM apparently radically changed their whole insurance structure in 2018, eliminating Aetna and Delta dental, replacing both of them with CIGNA. As I understand it (from Indeed and Glass Door reviews) only high-deductible plans (HSA) are offered at around $3000+ for the insurance to even kick in and LM offers no HSA contribution (R. offers $1100 every year to start off your HSA ) This $1100 was factored in to our BK13 plan, and if the premiums are double what UHC charged through R., my husband will need a very decent raise (maybe $10000) to break even. I read there is even a deductible for prescriptions (something which doesn't exist at R. through CVS Caremark (which LM has as well). These increased costs plus the many bad reviews really rattled me. I believe this will be a lateral move, so I don't think my husband can expect a huge raise, and that coupled with the trustee waiting in the wings to raise our payment could actually mean a pay cut (i.e. a smaller net paycheck.) Our mortgage payment may increase (again) and our monthly mandatory solar panel lease is always difficult to pay on time. (We only have $400 left after the mortgage is paid( $2200+) so we almost always pay it later in the month with the other bi-weekly check.
                I think if he is hired and the premiums are as high as the employees have indicated, we will need to increase our HSA contribution substantially to offset the $1100 loss and the much higher dental costs (multiple crowns and root canals are likely needed) and other needed medical bills (my name brand BC pills, regular gyno, chiro adjustments, and wellness checkups,glasses,etc.) We will probably have to 'fight' the trustee (again!) showing these huge dental bills (I believe my husband needs 3 or 4 crowns,at least one root canal,maybe more , I will find out next week how much dental work I will need with the new dentist when I get my cleaning and check up) are truly needed and should be allowed in the BK budget.
                None of the aerospace/defense companies my husband is eligible to work for , offer anything but high-deductible HSA plans,and that in tandem with a no disposable monthly income Bk13 plan is what is practically "killing" us! (We have stopped getting yearly check ups, not as frequent chiro care,etc.)
                Thank you VolFan for your wishes of Good Luck-we are going to need it to survive the next 3+ years of our five year plan!
                Last edited by Barbisi; 12-30-2018, 10:59 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  You can modify your plan, in a Chapter 13, to deal with HDHP (high deductible health plan). There is a very specific deduction in the Chapter 13 Means Test which allows this. I did this in my plan specifically adding $500/month to offset the HSA contributions. The Trustee did not question it at all.

                  Most employers are no longer providing full benefit packages. I worked for, arguably, the largest IT company in the world, and they went from generous plans to plans with either high deductibles (although "free" of premiums), to some plans with very high payments with low deductibles. The companies are moving the high costs of premiums on to their employees. My W-2 shows that my company contributes over $17,000 a year to my plan!

                  If there is DMI in your plan, then there is a way to offset any HSA account costs, just as I did. Even if your Trustee is greedy, the court is not going to let you die over healthcare costs. Many attorneys challenge the Trustee only a daily basis. Everyone in the bankruptcy realm should know that healthcare is expensive and that the costs continue to increase. Section 1129 of the Chapter 13 code specifically allows for plan modifications, and increased healthcare costs is certainly an area which is easy... so long as you cqn show this. You can't speculate about future costs, but you can say that you have an HDHP and that you are contributing $400/month to offset the deductible. That is specifically allowed by the bankruptcy code.

                  Remember, you can't say that you need to have future things done. You need to show that you need to put more money into your HSA account (removing it from DMI) in order to deal with rising healthcare costs. You may need to show what your costs were in the prior year (without revealing any HIPPA related data) and "show" that the costs are real.

                  If you have emergency medical needs, you can always seek an abatement of payments especially where there is DMI and there is a medical emergency.

                  If you settled on a plan that didn't fund your HSA account, then I don't know what to say. I was ready to fight over my HSA account and the Trustee said not a word. The HSA account is the "way" to save for those things that you want to have done, and those things that you know are regular recurring events.
                  Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                  Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                  Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                  I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    @Barbsi..I think most companies now have high deductible plans which is why it is necessary to have an HSA account. However as VolFan wrote a deductable for one company (such as LM) can be significantly different than somewhere else. When my company went to a high deductible plan, I was upset because our deductible was $2800. I thought that was horrible. However, I quickly learned that the $2800 covered both myself and my husband and $2800 is a really low amount compared to others who were paying $20,000. Also, I had a really bad medical year when it started so the 2800 was reached quickly (I was in the hospital for a week)..and after that there were no further deductible payments due for myself or my husband. And I was in my bk at the time. I didn't have 2800 at the time, but I have found that every medical company I deal with will work with patients on very low payment plans. Just talk with your attorney and see if you change your HSA deduction amount. I'm surprised you stopped getting yearly checkups..most employer plans include fully covered yearly wellness checkups and of course fully covered mammograms, colonoscopies (yuck! sorry!) and yearly pap/gyno exams for women. And the truth of the matter is I didn't even realize it until I fully read the plan document. Have you really fully read your document? The truth is when I called UHC with a question, they were the ones who pointed it out to me....at that point I read it. Which is why I really believe if you are able to read the LM medical plan documents or summaries, you might find they'e not as horrible as you think.

                    P.S. - I did a websearch on 2019 LM healthcare, take a look at this website: (It shows what is covered 100% and what isn't) (just click on this link, it'll take you to the info I want you to see)
                    https://www.lmhwplans.com/your-healt...efits-summary/

                    They also have a tab that shows how you can earn $1600 for your HSA account (1000 for you husband and 600 for you)
                    Last edited by sophieanne; 12-30-2018, 12:49 PM.
                    Filed Chapter 13 - 07/20/12
                    Discharged 8/2/16

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Our company also allows us to earn $1,100 towards our HSA and $600 for the spouse and dependents. The first $500 is done without a need to "earn" it, and is loaded on to our Fidelity HSA accounts automatically.
                      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thank you all!
                        Right now, only $120 is deducted monthly for our HSA contribution from my husband's pay at R. We wanted to increase it , but was told to wait until we were confirmed. But then we had almost $6000 out of pocket in 2017, which took us more than 6 months to pay off (We had reached the $3k threshold ,so we qualified for 80% coverage.) This year I elected to only go to my gyno and she did some blood tests ,but I do not have "free" preventative visits with a PCP-last year my husband and I were each charged $180(!) to order blood tests and each be told we had a "strong case of the healthies" and this before I was diagnosed with cervical stenosis and deterioration of the neck, Mild (for now) carpal tunnel syndrome in both hands and wrists and elbow ulnar/ wrist nerve damage, all of which was contributing to the sudden onset of severe inflammation which showed up on multiple blood tests! I was even tested for many forms of auto-immune disease ,which ultimately proved negative. I even had a worthless foot metatarsal biopsy which showed only inflammation in the bone, no cancerous tumor, as the awful foot surgeon believed. I really need a good PCP but am fearful of getting another dud, so I just let that exam go this year.I am very disappointed in the quality of care in Colorado and $200 to see a doctor is clearly a rip off.
                        I need more chiro adjustments, continued BC pills,continued monitoring of my still growing uterine fibroids (they can turn cancerous) and regular blood tests and some expensive dental care (I do not know how I will ever be able to pay for a dental implant(I have already lost one tooth and want to save the others! ) and more crowns, fillings and root canals . My husband already has a serious need for at least one root canal and crown. (We will have to document all tooth-saving dental work that has to be done this next year.)
                        I just called the new dentist and found out that CIGNA dental is out of network, which means we will have to search for another dentist that CIGNA will pay benefits in - network to. I will probably have to find a new gyno as well! I believe few doctors or dentists are in network with them and we will likely be paying even more than we suspected because all our dentists and doctors will be out of network. (Unless we are willing to drive for hours and then they will still dispute all charges!)
                        Those of of you who are allowed PPOs or your companies pay towards your HSAs seem truly blessed! May all your medical and dental needs continue to be covered!
                        My husband is certain that if this one job opportunity falls through, he will certainly be laid off, so it sounds like no matter how horrible the medical and dental coverage is, he has no choice but to accept it! My biggest fear is the trustee will seize any raise , no matter how much more CIGNA charges and no matter how little they cover, telling us that the extra $300 we were "allowed " to keep monthly during the confirmation is we can ever have for our medical and dental needs while we struggle to survive the next three plus years.
                        Happy New Year every one!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Zombie13 (my husband) says: thanksyou everyone (as he brushes the cat's tail away from the keyboard constantly) and he is working on the narrative document, the taxes, the raise, the comparison of the medical benefits, the numbers, etc. and will post the narrative/story once the final decision has been determined by the trustee regarding the new payment plan, if any.

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