Chapter 13 Discharged ... But It's Still Not Over ...

[FeelingHopeless]

First off, thank you so much lrprn for being such a great moderator.

Second ... you guys are so incredibly supportive. Thank you for all the kind words! My hands were shaking walking into that count room yesterday ... and when I left I had this sense of awe. It was like, "See ... they WERE wrong ... I wasn't crazy!"

In any case ... I talked to my admin tech today. There's no easy way to get a break down of the phone calls made on any certain day. Years ago, we each had our own line ... and each month the admin tech would receive a large report that listed every call made from every extension. They monitored the report each month to ensure employees weren't making personal long distance phone calls.

Unforunately, we changed systems about seven years ago. These days, when you pick up the phone and hit the button for an outside line, you access a pool of empty lines. So, it's not as though we could just look up the phone calls made from my extension. Even still ... since I know the date, the approximate time, and the phone number I dialed ... it shouldn't be too hard to find that one call ... even on an enormous office-wide list.

Anyway ... I'm not going to worry about it. Should it come to that, I'm sure our attorney can request something be put together. In the meantime, I'm going to call our home provider soon and request a list of incoming calls ... that way I can prove when they called us.

I don't even know if it will matter ... if they make us an offer, we may never use the phone records. But ... if it comes to me sitting in court arguging about whether I called them back in 12 hours or 24 hours or 48 hours ... I want some kind of HARD proof, you know?

I swear, I'm not happy unless I'm worrying over something! haha But it's okay ... baby steps ... at least we're going in the right direction.

Thanks, guys!!!

[$$only4ever]

FH,

I am so glad that things went well in court. I really liked the part when the judge strongly urged Mr Weasel Attorney to settle this out of court. Hello......she advised him that she was going to nail the CU if this case went to trial. I guess he should go back to the CU and say, "I am sorry that I am going to lose this case for you, but it is not my fault, I am an incompetent and stupid lawyer." Hee, hee...What goes around always comes around.

[MajorMike]

wow!! This is a great thread!!! I'm pulling for you and can't wait until you nail those idiots!!!

[Boscoe]

Yes, lrprn, great job taking care of that bow wow problem.

We enjoy interesting and insightful posts, but when people think they are lawyers and don't know what they are talking about, it needs to be called out.

I am looking forward for the positive conclusion to this story!

[EndInSight]

More popcorn please............

This thread has me jumping up and yelling.........HEEHAW!!
You go girl!

judy

[Granny]

heh heh....Did you notice that you haven't seen bowwow on the forums since those mean posts and that the posts are gone? Moderator magic....poof!....now you see him....now you don't.....

I love our moderators!!! They are

[lrprn]

I second Boscoe's feelings. Hopefully Bowwow has slunk back over to the AOL boards and will stay there.

heh heh....Did you notice that you haven't seen bowwow on the forums since those mean posts and that the posts are gone? Moderator magic....poof!....now you see him....now you don't.....

[arkienurse]

FH - excellent job....I don't think we'll be hearing from bowwow or any of those yahoos that doubted your case anymore!

I second Boscoe's feelings. Hopefully Bowwow has slunk back over to the AOL boards and will stay there.

[Boscoe]

FH - excellent job....I don't think we'll be hearing from bowwow or any of those yahoos that doubted your case anymore!

I hope you get everything you deserve! Looking forward to hearing about it in November!

[lrprn]

FH, I have been sitting here reading your post and literally cheering OUT LOUD!! I can't imagine how sweet it was to watch the bk judge say all those things to that jerk sleazeball of an attorney.

Sweet.....very, very sweet! Thank you so much for letting us enjoy this moment with you!

It's not the "end" that I wanted ... but it's a small peek at what the end might be. I almost cried sitting there at the thought that ... you know ... they WERE wrong. So far so good, my friends ... we're not in the end zone yet. But ... I think we're headed in that direction.

Yessiree....your old credit union is going to pay through the nose for this arrogant mistake. God, this feels good just hearing about it - I can't imagine how GOOD it must feel to you! You have been vindicated, FH - there is some goodness left in the world!

[FeelingHopeless]

LOL ... I wish it was appropriate to talk about it. I wish I had a whole room full of supporters because the idea of a trial makes me a nervous *wreck*. But, the bottom line is that I have to believe everything will be alright. I didn't lie or exaggerate anything ... so I'm not worried about going on the stand. And really, why would I have to? The reality of the situation is so unbelievable that there's no reason to make stuff up. I mean ... what could I say that would make it worse anyway? "Well, judge ... then when I picked up the plates, they PEED on me ..." LOL

Yes ... November 7th or 8th seems a LONG way away ... especially since I was hoping and praying it'd be over TODAY! haha But that's okay ... in the meantime, I'll come here ... read the forum posts ... and wait for my phone records to arrive.

[Boscoe]

FH - I literally laughed out loud when I read his "$500" offer. My wife said "what is so funny?" so I told her the entire story and she sat there with her mouth open in disbelief.

Like I said, the judge would be pissed. I think $10k is not nearly enough. They had their chance. Your attorney said "I could get $25k before the law changed...", well, for all the law changes in 2005 for bk, the automatic stay was not touched AT ALL.

I say, minimum $25k and it should be more. The other attorney was a joke, and the judge was so floored by his "defense" that she said "I think I want to see testimony". That is judge-speak for "Credit union, grab your ankles".

Hopefully your attorney will see this and go for it. They had plenty of chances and blew them all. Remember the other attorney who said "What,,,,are you kidding me?" I bet at that moment he wishes it was his case.

Take 'em to the cleaners, get your car paid for, the attorney well compensated, the court too. They bit off WAY more than they could chew.

Imagine, a "my employee was poorly trained" defense. Judge was pissed on the outside and laughing on the inside....

I know Nov 7 or 8 seems long away, but it will be WELL worth the wait. Don't settle for less than $25k. I wish it was appropriate for us to ask where this court case will be, because I wanna go!

[FeelingHopeless]

Exactly, chpxiii ... it told me that their attorney thought they could basically shrug their shoulders and say, "Eh, our bad ..." and be done with it.

Had they called me back on their own within hours and said, "Ooops ... our mistake ..." that would've been one thing. Because I would've had no attorney's fees at that point. Heck, I signed the loan documents at about 1:00 ... but I didn't actually pick up the car or sign THOSE documents until about 5:30. If they'd called ANYTIME during that first day, I could've just called to ask if we could cancel our loan request.

In any case ... I think I'm going to call our phone company to ask if I can get a listing of phone calls coming in during that time period. If it comes down to us having to go to court, I want to prove what time and what day she called me to say "Ooops, sorry." Unfortunately, I called her back from my office extension ... I'm not sure how hard it would be to get that kind of information from my admin tech. But, since she already knows about the bankruptcy, I think I'll ask her tomorrow just to be on the safe side.

Thanks guys ... I'm starting to relax a little ... haha

[chpxiii]

OH MY GOD! FH! I was just thinking about you! (Like I said, I marked it *my* calendar. )

I'm so glad you filled us in. Sounds good. Five hundred bucks, my rear end. That statement is a clear indication that the CU thinks they're going to win and are trying to minimize the situation. More bullying and harassment.

I like that right now they're just talking about damages. It seems that this is in your favor. I'm really hoping you get not just your attorney fees paid, but alteast a new car out of the deal.

Right on! Keep us updated if the CU decides to try and settle. You are such an inspiration of not letting the big guy continue to bully.

[arlington]

Oh my gosh ... so much to SHARE guys. Sorry I'm late posting. My uncle is in the hospital and I had to head up there on my way home from the court house. Plus, let me apologize now ... this will probably be a very long post. I'll try not to get wordy though ... so hang in there with me ...

I showed up at the court house 30 minutes early ... because I'm just a nut that way. By the time I parked and went through the security station, I was in the court room 20 minutes before our hearing started. My attorney was already there ... sitting in the "attorney area" with another lawyer who was there for someone else.

There was about ... twelve of us or so all sitting there waiting. And as I'm sitting there, I could hear my attorney chatting with the other attorney. "Did you hear so and so was on vacation ..." "Are you going to ask for a continuance ..." just a bunch of odd things that didn't have to do with me.

Then, he asks the other attorney, "How much in damages would you seek for a client whose Chapter 13 has been discharged ... she's paid off everything ... and then their credit union comes and reposesses the vehicle FROM the Chapter 13?" The other attorney actually set his paperwork down and said ... "WHAT? Are you KIDDING ME?"

So John proceeded to tell a few vague details about the case to this other attorney ... and this guy said, "Man, you could not CONSTRUCT a better case than this!"

My attorney said, "Well, a few years ago, I could've gotten $25,000 from these people ... but ... since the laws have changed ... I'm not sure I could get that much ..." and the other guy said, "Well, you could probably get the cost to replace the vehicle they reposessed ... but on top of that, I'd ask for treble sanctions since they so blatantly violated the bankruptcy stay." After a few moment, the other guy said, "When's that case on the docket today? Cause I wanna stick around to hear that guy's excuse. I GOTTA hear this ..."

Meanwhile ... a few moments pass ... we're about 3 minutes away from the hearing starting ... and the credit union's attorney walks in.

(Now this is not fact ... this next statement is only my opinion: Imagine this ... he's a weasily little guy ... skinny ... shaved head ... very "sleazy" vibe to him.)

This guy walks up to my attorney and really snottily says, "Hey ... I've got an offer for you ... how about five hundred BUCKS?" And, without smiling or laughing, my guy doesn't even look up from his paperwork as he says ... "That's about ninety five hundred too short." Their attorney said, "Well, I didn't think this was such a big DEAL ... haha ... " and my attorney said, "Well, I guess we'll find out how big of a deal it is here shortly, won't we?"

So ... court starts. I'm second on the docket. They call my case. I, like a moron stand up ... I don't need to ... as my attorney and their attorney walk up ... so ... I sit back down.

First, a small snag ... the judge says she didn't get any of the attachment documents that went along with our affidavits. There's about three dozen pieces of paperwork that she was missing. That's kind of a buzz kill ... she was supposed to be able to look at those before we ever got into court. She tells my attorney to tell her what's going on ...

So, John proceeds to fill her in ... going through most of the details. When he's done, the judge looks at the other attorney and says, "So, what's your response to this?" He said, "Well, we FILED a response to their sanction ... we admit it was a mistake ... but the person who repossessed the vehicle wasn't familiar with bankruptcies ... and we think ... you know, she feels bad about it ..." The judge asked, "WHO feels bad about it?" and the attorney said, "Well, our loan officer."

The judge literally raised her eyebrows and said, "She feels BAD about it? Your client has the power to go in the middle of the night and take someone's vehicle. There's some responsibility in that power. I don't believe there's legal precident that says it's okay to break a bankruptcy stay because your employee wasn't trained good enough. I'll have to look it up ... maybe there is ... but I don't believe an "ill-trained employee" is an acceptable defense."

So he says, "Well, there's no damages because they waited days to call us ... if they'd called there would've been no need for them to buy another vehicle." My attorney said, "No, I've got the Notice of Reposession you federal expressed to my clients. You called while they were at work and they called you the next morning." He answered, "I think your clients have some facts wrong ... and ... "

The judge interrupted. "I would like to see all of those attachments, John. I want to see all of your evidence. And ... I think I want to hear testimony." She paused and looked at the other lawyer and said, "At this point, we're not arguing about whether or not there was a wrong committed ... we're arguing about damages."

She asked the CU's attorney how many witnesses they would be bringing and he said, "Um ... uh ... one or two ..." and she asked my attorney how many witnesses he would be bringing and he said, "Three, four ... maybe more. I'll get back to you." She said, "Is it enough to have this happen after (legal term I'm not familiar with) or do we need to have an actual time slot?" and John said, "Oh, I'm going to need at LEAST two hours ... " and she said fine. They talked for about five minutes trying to come to an agreeable date to have this hearing with actual witnesses and such. They agreed on November 7th or 8th ... I can't remember. But it's at 9 a.m. ... I know that much.

At that point, she looked at the other attorney and said, "I would STRONGLY urge you to come together with their attorney and make these people a reasonable offer."

He said, "Your honor, this was just an HONEST mistake ..."

And ... here ... is where it gets good ...

Our judge looked shocked. She said, "Are you trying to tell me that you believe your client has no financial responsibility for their actions? You don't believe you should pay ANY damages?" He stammered for a moment and said, "Well, if there are damages ... they should be very, very minor ..."

She took her glasses off (very Judge Judy of her) and said, "Let me advise you that, from this point on, sir, the clock is ticking. I don't think your client will want to be paying the fees that are going to be incurred if we go to trial with this. Again ... I STRONGLY encourage you to work together to resolve this."

She then made an official statement something like ... "If there hasn't been a resolution in the interim, a hearing is set for November (7th/8th) at which point we will hear testimony about the violation of the bankruptcy stay. You (speaking now to their lawyer) SHOULD work together to resolve this before that date ... if not, I'll need you to file (names some legal documents and such that I didn't catch) ... "

At that point, she bangs the gavel and it's over. Their lawyer immediately turned on his heels and walked out of the court room.

Unfortunately, my lawyer was the attorney for the next case on the docket ... so I waited a moment for them to be done ... after that was finished, I walked up behind him and touched his back. "Will you be needing me anymore?" and he said, "No, no ... we're done. Go on home ... I'll be in contact with you shortly."

And THAT my friends, is where we're at. The bad news? Yes, we're continued until November. The good news ... man, you cannot IMAGINE how pissed off that judge was. I think ... and I'm just guessing here ... I think she was pissed that they hadn't made an offer to resolve it BEFORE the hearing. Although ... I suppose that "five hundred BUCK" remark could be considered an offer.

I'm afraid to let out my breath. I've said all along that my goal was court costs/attorneys fees ... anything else was gravy. I'll be honest ... gosh, a little gravy would be nice.

On a side note ... I can't tell you how relieved I was that everyone there seemed to think it was JUST as big of a deal as we did HERE on this forum. I'm so glad I came here to talk to you guys ... and ... I can't wait to tell you what comes of this.

It's not the "end" that I wanted ... but it's a small peek at what the end might be. I almost cried sitting there at the thought that ... you know ... they WERE wrong. So far so good, my friends ... we're not in the end zone yet. But ... I think we're headed in that direction.

Just simply awesome. I have been following your story since the first post. I think the "hard" part is over...and that was having the Judge realize who was in the wrong. Like you said the rest is just gravy!