Chapter 13 Discharged ... But It's Still Not Over ...

[aa06a47]

I hope the judge tells the credit union to go pound sand. The CU lawyers know they have a loser case on there hands and I bet they will come up with an offer to you prior to the hearing to make it all go away.

If I were you, I would have a figure in my head that your willing to accept in the event they do make an offer.

[FeelingHopeless]

PS - You asked about the plates ... "How did you get them, if the van was repo'd in the middle of the night, and you bought the new car the next day?" Not to be snarky ... but I believe I posted that answer on page 4 ... but I'll cut and past the same response here:

First off, they are claiming that I drove up to get the plates in a Pontiac Solstice sportscar with "highly personalized" plates so, while they admit the repossession was a mistake, their mistake did not cause us any damage.

SIGH ... I drove up to get the plates in my husband's old 1995 Mazda Miata that he uses to get to work. The plates aren't "highly personalized" ... they're the first four letters of my last name and a two digit number. When they repossessed the van, **I** had no way to get to work ... I also had no way of transporting our THREE CHILDREN. We're a family of FIVE. The Mazda gets great gas milage ... it's 12 years old ... we bought it with CASH because our old truck was dying. What the HELL?

[FeelingHopeless]

I'm at work so I don't have time at the moment to completely respond to everything ... but ... a few thoughts ...

I didn't buy a vehicle that was identical in price to the van because ... I didn't think I was getting the van back. I bought a $16k vehicle because I wanted one that would last me a good long time. It's a 2004 ... nothing posh ... but something reliable that would last the lifetime of the five year loan I had to take out to get it.

Just a thought to remember, at the point I bought this vehicle, I had no idea whether the credit union was in the wrong or not. My main concern was getting a reliable vehicle that I could afford to make payments on for the next five years.

I am not asking the credit union to "buy" this vehicle for me. My lawyer filed for a $10,000 sanction plus court costs and attorney's fees plus "whatever damages the court sees fit."

As I've said many, many times ... my main goal of this is to have my legal fees paid. I had to get my attorney involved to get the van back ... so I don't think I should be money in the hole over something that the credit union is admitting was their mistake.

Will he get a percentage? I'm not 100% certain, but I believe so. At the very least, it wouldn't surprise me. haha Again, as everyone on this thread can attest, I'm in a dead panic to have my legal fees paid. Anything else, quite frankly, is gravy.

[arkienurse]

I've been lurking and reading all the posts. Surely looks as if the CU didn't follow the rules, but there are a few things you say/said that raised my eyebrows.

Surely a lawyer would rather have a slam dunk case like this on a percentage basis, rather than 10 or 20 hours on a per hourly basis. Yet he is billing you by the hour. Why?

I just went back and skimmed over all her posts. Please point me to the one that said her lawyer is charging by the hour. All I see is 2 different posts mentioning having received bills. And evidently they haven't asked her to actually pay them yet.

In your posts, you said you paid the Credit Union $5000 over the 5 year plan. If the car was valued correctly, that is what it was worth 5 years ago.

Wrong. She was in a 100% payback. That means that not only did she pay back what the van was worth, she also ended up paying the upside down portion if they filed a claim for it. So in other words, she paid the entire amount of the loan

And by your admission, it's only worth $2-3000, or so little, you didn't attempt to retrieve it. The selection of another vehicle at $16,000 does not warrant the credit union to be responsible for your choice. Or, had you chosen a vehicle worth $2-3000, I think your attorneny would win hands down. But you chose a $16,000 car. Would the CU be held liable if the car you chose was $42,000?

I'm not sure your attorney has a point.

Her lawyer most definitely has a point. These idiots VIOLATED Federal Law when they repo'd that van. And if you look, they didn't file a claim for the new loan,.....
"The lawyer filed paperwork requesting that the Chapter 13 be reopened with a sanction against our credit union for $10k plus lawyers fees, court costs, etc. plus "whatever other damages the court sees fit."

[danaf]

I wander down to the 13 boards from the 7 sometimes and I just wanted to give you a vote of confidence in this situation. I hope you get your new car paid for via this credit union plus some. Truly an amazing story of idiocy (on their part of course).

[lrprn]

So I'm a little disappointed to tell you that I may not come home Tuesday with a definate answer ... however, I'll take mental notes of everything that happens ... what the credit union says and such ... and I'll at least come back with details.

Lawyers and the courts move at a glacial pace, that's for sure! You've done such a good job hanging in there so far, FH - these court dances seem take on a life of their own.

I feel your pain on the delay front. Our hearing in front of our bk judge to discuss our Ch 13 trustee's objections to our case was last October 5, 2006. Our lawyer and trustee are finally headed back to court next week on Wednesday, Sept 27 (nearly a full year later!) for our confirmation hearing #2 expecting to confirm our amended plan. Our lawyer is feeling good we'll be confirmed finally. Looks like next week will be a big court week for both of us!

I'm nervous ... but trying to keep that same zen from last night. He's fighting for us ... that's all I have to remember. We have someone on our side fighting for us ...

You found a gem in this lawyer, FH. Sounds no-nonsense and a bulldog - just what is needed in this situation.

No matter what happens or how long it goes on, this will end for you eventually. It's just so hard to wait it out! Remember we'll be here for you to the end no matter when that might be. We believe in you and your case, and I believe the judge is going to as well.

[thewife]

What a mess! I hope that everything works out in the end. How awful

[FeelingHopeless]

Hey there, everyone ... I just talked to one of the assistants and got clarification on the meaning of "a bunch of bullshit" ... LOL The assistant called to ask us to come in on Sunday so that we might sign an affidavit ... which would be our response to their objection. I asked him what to expect and if next Tuesday will be "the end" ...

He said ... next Tuesday the judge will take our evidence and affidavits and their evidence and affdavits and decide if there needs to be a hearing. If our lawyer and their lawyer agree that everything has been said that needs to be said ... then yes, we will consider it done. At that point, the judge would take everything into consideration and would tell us at a later date what his/her judgement is. So even though it might be "done" on Tuesday, we still probably will not have a win/lose answer.

If the judge feels that he/she needs to hear more testimony or see more evidence, there will be a hearing date. At that point, there may be an actual trial with witnesses, evidence, etc. He said it could go either way. He didn't feel like there would be a need for a trial with witnesses, etc., however, he didn't want to guess and be wrong. He said if it goes that route, it could take months to have an actual conclusion to this case. In fact, if it goes this route, we're looking at 60-90 days before we'd go to court.

So I'm a little disappointed to tell you that I may not come home Tuesday with a definate answer ... however, I'll take mental notes of everything that happens ... what the credit union says and such ... and I'll at least come back with details.

I'm nervous ... but trying to keep that same zen from last night. He's fighting for us ... that's all I have to remember. We have someone on our side fighting for us ...

[Boscoe]

FH - Outstanding, really. I think your attorney is licking his chops at the carnage that will take place next week. A "bunch of bullshit" means that the Credit Union will be babbling on about alot of nonsense and making up excuses for every day of the week and the bk judge will have NONE of it.

I'm telling you, this judge is going to come down HARD on them. One of the major premises of the bk law is the automatic stay. You just don't violate that, as then you'd violate one of the major essences of the law. My attorney (who doesn't know anything about this) has said on more than one occasion "Judges don't take too kindly to violations of the automatic stay. It is there for a reason and they won't hesitate to significantly sanction any offending party." The additional rub here is that they have a history of doing this and clearly they caused harm to you and your husband. I have a number in my head as to what I think the judge will do and I will share it once I hear the real one is!

I wish I could sit in the back row, or it could be taped and shown on C-Span. Just take alot of mental notes and give us details, like how much they squirm, and how often they get admonished and shot down by the judge.....

Looking forward to the 25th! Best of luck, but you won't need luck......

[$$only4ever]

**A bunch of bullshit***.......Is that attorney terminology? lol

FH, Good Luck. I have definitely marked this on my calendar.

[HeatherB]

I'm so happy for you. It sounds like you've got a great lawyer. Keep us posted and good luck.

[FeelingHopeless]

Hi there, everyone. Sorry I didn't write yesterday. My mom had cataract surgery ... and all went extremely well on that front. Sometimes things like that put life in perspective ... but in any case ...

I went to the attorneys office and actually met with the "big guy" (you normally only deal with his assistants until your actual court date.) He has a reputation for being an agressive attorney in court ... but he's very soft spoken. It's odd ... he's quiet and yet very intimidating to talk with.

He said, "What have you got for me?" and I gave him the page I'd typed up with my responses to their objection. He sat and read it for a moment ... and asked a few questions. How much did you pay for the replacement vehicle ... who said what and when ... basically we went over everything all over again.

I told him I did *not* pick up the plates in a Pontiac Solstice ... I drove up in our 12 year old Mazda Miata that my husband uses to get to work. I told him I couldn't fit three kids in a Miata ... and I think I babbled for a moment about her thinking it was a Solstice ... he gently interrupted me and said, "It doesn't matter what you drove up in ... at this point they've already admitted they made a mistake."

He taped my responses and made notes about what he documents he wanted to have with him in court. Then he started the tape again and said, "Tell me about the morning of the reposession. How did you *feel* when you woke up to find your van had been repossessed?"

I told him I was hysterical ... I woke my husband up sobbing ... that between the shock of having the van we *owned* repossessed and then the humiliation of having to tell my husband's employer about the reposession so we could beg for a loan ... all and all it was one of the worst days of my life.

He stopped the tape and started gathering things up. He said they might ask me come in to sign another affidavit so they could file an answer to their objection to "upset the apple cart" ... whatever that means. He'd meet me at the court house next week and stood up. I asked him what would happen at the hearing and he kind of chuckled and said, "A bunch of bullshit ... "

So I said, "You know, John ... the salt on the wound of all this is their objection. After all the heartache these people caused ... their document makes it sound like I'm trying to MAKE money off this situation." He stopped and looked at me and said, "Well, I'M trying to make money for you ..."

I said, "But my issue is that they would've NEVER given me back the van if I hadn't called you. So from that moment on, I was already money in the hole whether they gave the van back or not. I just want to make sure they pay *you* ..." He just kinda laughed and said, "Don't worry about it ... I'll see you next week."

So, I feel better ... I suppose. He's a man of few words ... he doesn't just sit and blather on. I did walk away feeling better ... because I feel like I should put my faith in him. He's a good attorney ... and he's going to fight for us.

I checked again and the court date is the 25th at 1:30 ... set your alarms ... as soon as I'm back at home, I'll log in and tell you guys what happened. I'm not sure if the 25th will be the "end" ... or if we wait to hear from the judge after that ... I really have no idea what to expect other than "a bunch of bullshit." LOL

Keep your fingers crossed ... four more days and we should know something one way or the other.

Thanks for all your kind words ... I can't tell you guys how much it helps to come here and talk to you all ...

HUGS*HUGS*HUGS

[chpxiii]

Feeling hopeless,

I have, literally, put an alarm in my calendar to remind me of the 27th and to think of you and your family as well as to keep my fingers crossed. Good luck!

[Boscoe]

FH - how did the attorney meeting go? Is your court date before the judge still on the 27th?

[$$only4ever]

Omg FH, what are these people smoking?

You were banned from the credit union because you would not stand before God and the members of the credit union and repent your bankruptcy sins? These people are a trip.

I have been reading this thread right from the beginning and all I can say is that in order to be employed at this particular credit union, you had to check the box that said, " Are you or can you act stupid?"

Go after them FH and fry them!!!!!!