Chapter 13 Discharged ... But It's Still Not Over ...

[arkienurse]

Ok, FH, you should be at the attorney right now. Just wanted to let you know we are all thinking of you, and I just said a prayer that the powers that be make it good for you.

[lrprn]

I'll log in tomorrow and fill you guys in on what the attorney says tonight ... wish me luck.

FH, we are all hoping and praying that everything goes well for you AND that this credit union gets to pay many $$$ directly into your pocket for their blatant disregard of the bk law.

At the very least, you won't have to owe anything when the dust settles. The credit union obviously violated the law - they admitted to it in their own deposition. You'll get your lawyer's fees and the court costs out of it. However, I have a feeling you are going to have a goodly amount of cash and/or a paid-off van in your garage to boot! Bk judges don't take violations of the automatic stay lightly.

Hang in there - it's almost over. We're behind you 100%!!

[FeelingHopeless]

Hi, everyone ...

I'm meeting with the attorney tonight at 7:15 to go over my response to their objection. They told me several weeks ago to have no contact with the credit union ... that everything should go through our attorneys. And that's fine with me ... although I'll be honest ... when I first saw their objection, I wanted to call their representative and just start ranting and raving at her.

Had she listened ... just stopped for a moment and listened to me ... this never would've happened. I told her a dozen times that we were discharged and that they were making a mistake. But she talked over me ... treated me like a low life ... said I was trying to get them to give us a van we didn't deserve ... ugh.

The thing that keeps ringing in my ears is her telling me the day they respossessed the car, "I know what you're doing. You're talking to a lawyer and they're telling you that I don't have the right to do this. Well, I've been doing this for years and I know what I'm doing. We DO have the right to do this." If she'd even LOOKED at our files, she would've known. I can't imagine what they were thinking.

At the time, I thought they were bullying us ... and maybe it's true. If I'd never called our lawyer, they would've never admitted it was a mistake. Frankly, I'm shocked they admitted they it was a mistake in their objection ... although I suppose they didn't really have a choice.

I'm trying to be zen about this ... no matter what, I desparately want them to pay the legal fees. I don't think I should have to walk away owing money from their mistake.

I'll log in tomorrow and fill you guys in on what the attorney says tonight ... wish me luck.

[JollyGG]

The real crux of the matter is that they illegally repo'd your van 2 months after your discharge. They violated the stay and that is what the court will look at. I don't think the court gives a whit if the van is or was or will be junk or that you waited 2 days to call them back. But you will respond, and besides if they KNEW they were wrong after they took the van, why didn't they just turn around and immediately return it within the same 48 hour time frame. You need to relax. The court will only deal with the facts of this case and not the crumbs the cu is spreading around. They illegally took your van, violated the stay and those are the facts, ma'am. LOL Relax!

rrockinggramma has it exactly right. They know they are going to get hit with your lawyers fee's, your court costs, and at least a $1000 sanction.
They have admitted they did it, that is the least they will end up with. Their response is a sad attempt to not have to pay anything more than that by claiming that their was no harm to you.

[Boscoe]

FH - you have now, by my count, had at least 5 responses in less than one hour to your 11:41 post. That is how unbelievable this story is......

I don't get speechless often, but this time I am.

First off, I assume that all of this communication is now going through your attorney. Do NOT communicate directly with these scumbags (that word is too good for them, but this is a family forum so gotta keep it clean) - treat them just like a creditor during a bk.

Second, your attorney must be alternately trying to calm you down and laughing. They probably cannot actually believe that anyone, nevermind a federally chartered credit union, would have the audacity to allege these things.

Third and Lastly, like the prior post said, bottom line is that they clearly violated the automatic bk stay, so that alone will get them sanctions. They had better hope the judge accepts payoffs, because any judge I've heard of will have a field day with this one.

Again, DON'T get upset. You WILL win this and they absolutely deserve it. They should lose their charter over this clear case of harrassment. The bit about you having to be "outed" in a member meeting takes the cake. If I was a lawyer, I'd want to take this case!!

Keep us posted!

[rrockinggramma]

The real crux of the matter is that they illegally repo'd your van 2 months after your discharge. They violated the stay and that is what the court will look at. I don't think the court gives a whit if the van is or was or will be junk or that you waited 2 days to call them back. But you will respond, and besides if they KNEW they were wrong after they took the van, why didn't they just turn around and immediately return it within the same 48 hour time frame. You need to relax. The court will only deal with the facts of this case and not the crumbs the cu is spreading around. They illegally took your van, violated the stay and those are the facts, ma'am. LOL Relax!

[HeatherB]

Where's the popcorn?

This is one of the most interesting threads I've read. Please keep updating.

Sorry you are going through this right now. I know it sucks when you know you are in the right and have to fight and go in the hole because of it. It does sound like they are trying to use bullying and scare tactics on you, though. I would think since your lawyer was so eager to take the case, that it would mean you had an excellent chance of coming out ahead (even if not the total amount you are asking, I would think it would be more than just paying off the lawyer and fees, etc)

Good luck on all of this and eventhough I know you are not trying to "stick it to them", I sure hope you do. They sound like scumbags.

[BKTango]

It's a fight to the finish that's for sure. Hang in there and we are all here to support you. You're doing the right thing in assuring they are held responsible for their actions, and hopefully assuring it won't happen again to someone else.

If it's at all possible, you might think about printing all of this thread or at least your posts from it. It verifies the dates you came on here noting when they called you and vice versa, any and all contact you had with them. You never know if you may need this information.

Good luck!

[FeelingHopeless]

Omigod This Never Ends!

This NEVER ends, people! I'm serious ... I feel like I'm fighting Goliath here.

I got the Credit Union's statement about the Sanction. It's sickening. They claim that I called the van junk ... that they discovered their mistake "within hours" ... that I didn't call them back for two days ... it's just unbelievable. There's so much ... but here's a taste:

First off, they are claiming that I drove up to get the plates in a Pontiac Solstice sportscar with "highly personalized" plates so, while they admit the repossession was a mistake, their mistake did not cause us any damage.

SIGH ... I drove up to get the plates in my husband's old 1995 Mazda Miata that he uses to get to work. The plates aren't "highly personalized" ... they're the first four letters of my last name and a two digit number. When they repossessed the van, **I** had no way to get to work ... I also had no way of transporting our THREE CHILDREN. We're a family of FIVE. The Mazda gets great gas milage ... it's 12 years old ... we bought it with CASH because our old truck was dying. What the HELL?

Second, they're claiming that I waited two days to call them back after they called to admit their mistake ... and if I'd called them, I wouldn't have needed to buy a new car. SIGH ... she called the NEXT day ... 24 hours AFTER I'd bought the car. She called our HOME ... even though she KNEW I worked AND she HAD my work number. Therefore, I didn't get the message until after THEIR OFFICE HAD CLOSED. I then called them within MINUTES of their office opening the next day! Not that it mattered because it WAS TOO LATE.

Third, she's claiming that I called the van "a piece of junk" and told her it was just sitting in my back yard. UGH ... I'm trying to be calm here. When she told me that a) they wouldn't ask me for money but b) they would NEVER surrender the title ... I told her that didn't make sense. I told her I was going to drive it until the wheels fell off and at that point it would have to sit in my back yard forever because you can't even JUNK A CAR WITHOUT A TITLE.

Oh, and the cherry on the top is that they're saying it's our own fault we were expelled from the credit union ... because we chose not to go in front of the public meeting of members and trustees and discuss our bankruptcy and finances. So, I was supposed to deal with the humiliation and punishment of this public meeting AFTER they repossessed my van?

Jesus ... I cried all night long. The letter from the attorney said to write down my responses to each paragraph and schedule an appointment to discuss it. So, I did ... this morning I marked each and every incorrect item in those papers ... and I'm seeing the attorney tomorrow night at 7:15 p.m.

I'm just sick over it. I'm not naive ... I suppose logically the credit union had to say SOMETHING. Their response is basically, "Yes, we made a mistake ... but it caused no damage." So now I'm meeting with the attorney that will jack up the fees even more ... I feel like crying again.

I'll know more tomorrow night and I'll let you guys know what the attorney says ...

[Boscoe]

FH - don't worry, you will win. And don't pay the attorney unless you absolutely have to. Certainly don't offer to and don't bring it up unless they do first.

Keep us posted - I want to hear that those bastards got theirs!

[FeelingHopeless]

Well ... on September 27th, there's a hearing scheduled at the Federal Courthouse. (I don't know if it's legally a hearing ... but ... since I don't know what to call it ... let's stick with hearing.)

My hubby can't get off work ... they're training on a new system that day ... so I called our lawyer's assistant to be sure it was alright if I went by myself. He said it would be better if we both went ... but that it wasn't a trial and that no one was subpoened to be there. So, we don't really have any other options ... I'm going by myself and just hope for the best.

We also got another bill from the lawyer ... the fees are up around $450 now. When I called, I asked his assistant if they wanted me to pay them up front and have the CU pay me back if we won ... or would they wait to see if the CU would pay them directly? He didn't know ... and no one has gotten back to me.

I'm a nervous wreck ... at this point, I'm just PRAYING that we win enough to cover the legal fees. If not, I'll end up selling the van just to pay him back.

Keep your fingers crossed, everybody ... I'll write the day of the hearing and let you guys know how this thing ended up!

[Boscoe]

Hi Feeling Hopeless, I just ran across this thread myself.

What a story.

I am so glad you are suing that SOB's. Yes, you ABSOLUTELY suffered damages, emotional distress, maybe even physical illness. I hope the judge rules that they have to pay you $20-30-even $50k. That is an awful thing they did and now they need to pay and pay and pay.

Whoever said that your attorney took this case partially because they saw the $$ signs is definitely right. I will be extremely surprised if the judge does not rule for you and imposes significant sanctions. It was getting me angry just reading the whole thing. For them to say "we didn't know about the chap 13.....the judge will simply laugh that off, before he gets stern and imposes the sanctions!

And do NOT feel bad about whatever you get out of this. You, like lrprn and everyone else who endures the 5 years of ch 13 have paid your dues.

[EndInSight]

Hay.......what's happening now?

[FeelingHopeless]

Hi, everyone ... we're back from Florida. I was SO nervous on Monday ... waiting for the Post Office to deliver the "hold mail" from the past seven days. But all that anxiety was for nothing ... because there was nothing in the mail. Nothing from our attorney ... or the court ... or their attorney ... nothing.

The credit union had until the 23rd to respond to our sanction ... it's now the 30th. I haven't heard anything ... but I suppose that could just mean I haven't received our copy yet. Each day I go to the mailbox with butterflies in my stomach ... but nothing so far.

Meanwhile, the van sits in my back yard ... waiting for the go ahead to be sold.

[chpxiii]

I suppose the big question is ... was there any harm because of their actions? Well, I would say yes ... we had no intention of taking out a 16k loan this soon after our discharge ... I had no way of getting to work without a vehicle ...

Plus, although this won't matter to the court, my husband has an anxiety disorder and has been on medication for over ten years ... and, between the reposession AND the whole lawyer/court/sanction thing, this has really sent him over the edge ... so on a very personal level, it was VERY bad for us ... but ... I can't go to court and say, "They should be fined because my husband has been a nervous wreck for WEEKS because of this ..."

Isn't there something about "emotional distress" or something like that? I don't know. I wish I did.

Good luck. And a safe trip taking your daughter to her internship. I'll be thinking about you guys.