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WOW! Amex can be real JERKS!!!

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    WOW! Amex can be real JERKS!!!

    My attorney went to the pre-trial telephonic conference and this is what the Amex attorneys want me to put together within 30 days!! ALL FOR $6900!!!!! I would rather pay that then have to dig up all this SHIT! ( sorry for that but it really is )
    Check this out...and this is only 1/2 of it...

    Requests For Production Of Documents
    1. For the year in which you filed your Bankruptcy Petition and for the preceding two (2) years, provide copies of the following:
    a. Your personal Federal Income Tax Returns, Schedules and Attachments;
    b. Your amended Federal Income Tax Returns, Schedules and Attachments, if any;
    c.
    Your quarterly estimated Federal Income Tax Returns, if any;
    d. Your W-2 forms, if any;
    e. Your 1099 forms, if any;
    f. Any and all tax returns for any corporation or business in which you hold or held a 10% or greater interest, including but not limited to the company you have listed on your American Express Corporate Card.

    2. All documents which relate to the specific credit, charge, or line of credit account identified in the Complaint, including but not limited to, sales receipts for merchandise and/or services purchased.

    3. All documents which indicate a change in your financial condition between the time you incurred the charge(s) identified in the Complaint and the date you filed your Bankruptcy Petition, including but not limited to your employment records for January 1, 2006 through October of 2007.

    4. Photocopies of all canceled checks made payable by you, or made payable by another on your behalf, to any attorney, law firm or other entity for bankruptcy, debt collection, and/or credit counseling services.

    5. Account statements for each of the twelve (12) months preceding the filing of your Bankruptcy Petition for all unsecured, nonpriority debt which is credit, charge, or line of credit
    debt as listed on Schedule F.

    6. All receipts and invoices pertaining to services obtained by you within the twelve (12) months immediately preceding the filing of your Bankruptcy Petition which relate to bankruptcy, debt collection or credit counseling.

    7. All canceled check(s), checking account statements and check(s) returned for insufficient funds for each checking account maintained by you individually or jointly during the twelve (12) month period immediately preceding the date you filed your Bankruptcy Petition.

    8. All books and records which evidence your income from all sources for the twenty-four (24) months immediately preceding the filing of your Bankruptcy Petition, including but not limited to pay stubs, bonuses, benefits, reimbursements, interest and dividends.

    9. All amendments, if any, to your Bankruptcy Petition, Statement of Financial Affairs and supporting Schedules.

    10. All letters received from creditors or collection agencies during the twelve (12) month period immediately preceding the filing of your Bankruptcy Petition concerning past due and/or delinquent credit, charge or line of credit account(s).

    11. All documents and exhibits you intend to introduce or refer to at trial.

    12. All documents you intend to rely on in support of your defense of this adversary proceeding.

    13. All documents which indicate any change in your monthly income in the twelve (12) month period immediately preceding the filing of your Bankruptcy Petition.

    14. All reports of expert witnesses you intend to call at trial.

    15. All documents which support your answers to Plaintiff First Set of Interrogatories.

    16. Copies of all applications that you have made and given to anyone or any entity within the last twelve (12) month period immediately preceding the filing of your Bankruptcy Petition for credit in any form. This request includes but is not limited to mortgages, secured loans, credit, charge and line of credit account.

    17. Copies of all financial statements that you have made and given to anyone or any entity within the last twelve (12) month period immediately preceding the filing of your Bankruptcy Petition for credit in any form. This request includes but is not limited to mortgages, secured loans, credit, charge and line of credit accounts.

    18. All records for any financial accounts in which you hold an interest solely or with any other individual or entity for the twelve (12) months preceding the filing of the bankruptcy. This request includes but is not limited to checking accounts, savings accounts, money market accounts, stock accounts, and any other account in which funds are deposited. This request includes but is not limited to statements of account, deposit records, cancelled checks, and records of withdrawals.

    19. All documents supporting your contention that the charges at issue for goods and services charged on your account were reasonably necessary for your maintenance and support.

    20. All documents showing you had sufficient income and assets from which you could have reasonably expected to repay American Express for the charges at issue.

    21. All documents showing you intended to honor your obligation to American Express to satisfy the account.

    22. All documents supporting your contention that American Express has not sustained loss and damage in the amount of $6,962.34 as a result of your misrepresentations.

    23. All documents supporting your contention that the charges at issue were not incurred without intent to repay American Express.

    24. All documents supporting your contention that you intended to repay American Express for the charges at issue.

    25. All documents supporting your contention that charges at issue were not incurred through false pretenses, a false representation or actual fraud.

    As a proximate result of extending credit based on your misrepresentations, American Express has sustained loss and damage in the amount of $6,962.34 on the Account.

    They want this by May 8th!!! Has anyone ever seen anything like this in their life? I'm crapping myself right now....!!
    Last edited by MajorMike; 04-10-2008, 06:28 PM.
    Filed: October 1, 2007 341: December 10, 2007
    CONFIRMED: December 10, 2007
    Payment: $825 / Mo. for 5 Years-29 MONTHS OF Pmts Down 23 to go!

    #2
    Can I tell my attorney to just make them an offer and pay it outside of the plan? Just reading this stresses me out!
    Filed: October 1, 2007 341: December 10, 2007
    CONFIRMED: December 10, 2007
    Payment: $825 / Mo. for 5 Years-29 MONTHS OF Pmts Down 23 to go!

    Comment


      #3
      Why do you think the list is so long, MM? They WANT you to freak out and settle. Give your lawyer a chance to respond and see if he can whittle the list down to something manageable or push the deadline.

      You have to toughen up when the Ch 13 waters get rough. Let your lawyer do his job and see where this goes. In Ch 13 you need to learn patience because NOTHING happens very quickly when lawyers are involved
      I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

      06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
      06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
      07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
      10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
      01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
      09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
      06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
      08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

      10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
      Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by lrprn View Post
        Why do you think the list is so long, MM? They WANT you to freak out and settle. Give your lawyer a chance to respond and see if he can whittle the list down to something manageable or push the deadline.

        You have to toughen up when the Ch 13 waters get rough. Let your lawyer do his job and see where this goes. In Ch 13 you need to learn patience because NOTHING happens very quickly when lawyers are involved

        MM, I agree with lrprn (sure which I knew what that stood for but that's another thread). The lawyers are trying to freak you out....and it's working. They know you can't come up with all that...I don't think there's anyone here that could. (and before someone answers me and says, OH I COULD, I COULD, well Hats off to you for being anal.)

        I assume you are being accused of fraud? Well, the burden of proof is on them. Just because they demand it doesn't mean a judge will enternain it.

        I am sure you can come up with a reasonable amount of that stuff.

        What the hell is your lawyer doing, besides scaring you to death? What has he demanded of them?

        ep
        California Bankruptcy Central

        Comment


          #5
          That is a fairly standard discovery request.

          At this point, your lawyer "should" object to some of it, but you will have to come up with a lot of that stuff.

          The burden may be on them to prove their case, but all the evidence is in the debtors possession (that is the reason for discovery )
          Last edited by HHM; 04-10-2008, 11:04 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by HHM View Post
            That is a fairly standard discovery request.

            At this point, your lawyer "should" object to some of it, but you will have to come up with a lot of that stuff.

            The burden may be on them to prove their case, but all the evidence is in the debtors possession (that is the reason for discovery )
            Is there really such a thing as discovery in a BK fraud trial? If that's the case, then the other side needs to turn over what they have too, do they not? I thought discovery only applied to things that you intend to enter into evidence?

            ep
            California Bankruptcy Central

            Comment


              #7
              Its a mini lawsuit (it is not small claims court), and there are rules of evidence and such, (BK court is still FEDERAL COURT and the proceedings that take place there have a whole book worth of rules and procedures.

              I think some of the requests are poorly worded, most of the requests from 19-25 are vague and can probably be objected too. After all, if such documents existed, the debtor would produce them as part of his defense. But the rest of the document requests are fairly reasonable and standard requests.
              Last edited by HHM; 04-11-2008, 07:13 AM.

              Comment


                #8
                Working in a law firm, I see requests for production of documents all the time for various cases. Remember, what they are doing is well within their rights as they suspect fraud on your part and they want to investigate the situation. Your situation will prove to others that they cannot just "sail" through getting by with a six month period prior to filing of producing requested items. You can go through something like this in a Chapter 13 and have to go way back. Your attorney is experienced in these matters. Let him or her guide you and he/she will ensure it is handled correctly. Bankruptycy is not a walk in the park as it used to somewhat be prior to October 2005.
                _________________________________________
                Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
                Early Buy-Out: April 2006
                Discharge: August 2006

                "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

                Comment


                  #9
                  How can this happen if his plan has already been confirmed? I thought that the creditors had to abject to everything prior to confirmation?
                  Filed Chapter 13 05/23/08
                  Converted to Chapter 7 Jan 2012
                  Discharged April 2012

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by epiphany View Post
                    I assume you are being accused of fraud? Well, the burden of proof is on them. Just because they demand it doesn't mean a judge will enternain it.
                    Not really. In this case, the debtor used the credit for "luxury" purchases within 90 days of filing in an amount over $500.

                    In this case, then, rebutting the presumption resides with the debtor.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      MM, give them what they want. They want you to throw their hands up in the air and give up!!! Stay strong. What if in the end, for a little bit of work now, you owe them nothing!!! Hang tough!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        EEEkkksss....My Am Ex was only 3K, and they offered settlement right away for $ 800- and I jumped at that. After hearing your story, I am glad I did!!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          MM, what exactly did you use the $6900 for anyways? Was it a cash advance or something?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Was this the card where you purchased the 5000.00 in gift cards?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              We BK'd about $30K in AmEx cards and while they objected to our claims, it was because they wanted more money paid into the plan, we didn't have to produce any documents (though I did produce documents to counter their claims that some of our expenses were too high). Their attorney though did make life hell for us by continuing the case monthly for 4-5 months after our 341 and before we could get confirmed. They are getting 26% of the total amount owed.

                              Comment

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