Ch-13 341 meeting and exemption form

[justbroke]

I'm surprised that the pro-bono attorneys weren't outright shocked and asked you why you filed a Chapter 13 on your own. The attorneys may also just be Chapter 7 attorneys and never deal with Chapter 13 cases.

The fact is, it does entirely depend on which Trustee as for specifics about what they are looking for in the Plan, but some things are "basic" and District-wide... such as a Model Plan.

As for 4 years, you MUST give the Trustee what s/he wants. You can get tax returns back 6-7 years easily. You just fill out the 4506-T (I think that's the form), for each year.

Your plan is NOT approved. It has to go to a confirmation hearing. You need to get all the things the Trustee asked you to do first. Then you can ask the Trustee's office whether they will recommend confirmation or fight confirmation.

[highnndry]

Is it normal to ask 4 years of tax return? I think I can only get 3 years of transcript and I already gave them 2 years of tax return. They didn't mention anything about the plan, does it mean that the plan is approved?

I talked to the pro-bono people and their answers to all my question is "depends on the trustee".

[justbroke]

I didn't know that there was an open question. Your plan has not been approved until they see what you actually do with the other things. For example, if you don't or can't exempt something, you must either surrender it to the Trustee OR pay the value of that in your Chapter 13 plan.

Your Plan probably needs to ACTUALLY state that all tax refunds are to be surrendered to the custody and control of the Trustee, but that's a District specific item. Have you not sought help from the Pro Bono clinic?

[highnndry]

What no responses or feedback in 2 days? I just requested the IRS for prior tax returns and will notify the Trustee today.

[highnndry]

For #6, Evidence of Plan Payment: I believe your 1st payment (based on your initial plan proposal) is due 30 days after your case is filed. Since you've already had your 341, you should have made that payment. If you have not - my best guess is the 6th objection is about your missing payment. You'll need to get it in ASAP.

You can request the tax transcripts the IRS website. No biggie - generally come in the mail within 2-3 weeks.

I made the payment but what happened was, the money order was made out for $125 instead of $135. I didn't notice it until I went to the meeting and they wouldn't take cash, check or ATM card. They told me that just add $10 more towards the second payment.

[SMinGA2]

For #6, Evidence of Plan Payment: I believe your 1st payment (based on your initial plan proposal) is due 30 days after your case is filed. Since you've already had your 341, you should have made that payment. If you have not - my best guess is the 6th objection is about your missing payment. You'll need to get it in ASAP.

You can request the tax transcripts the IRS website. No biggie - generally come in the mail within 2-3 weeks.

[highnndry]

Just received trustees objection and here they are:

1. all tax refunds must be handed over for first 3 years. Not sure why this is an objection? Because I never said no.
2. serve the plan with form 3015. This was already mentioned to me at the 341 meeting, I guess I'll have to resend the plan with this form.
3. This is new to me they want four years of tax transcripts, I only gave them two, is this a typo? I'll have to call the trustee tomorrow about this.
4. Rental agreement. This was addressed at the 341 meeting and I took care of it.
5. Schedule C, will fax it on Friday.
6. Evidence of plan payment. What is this?

So nothing against the actual plan, does it means that the plan has been approved? They are just waiting for notices and procedures. Because the stuff they are requesting are not significant at all just whole bunch of forms needs to be submitted. By the way, all this objections the trustee already went over it during the meeting, I guess she just made it official now, but the four year tax transcript is still baffling.

All suggestions are welcome and I would greatly appreciate it.

[justbroke]

The plan has been filed before the 15 days, I just didn't know I had to mail it to the creditors. When the trustee saw that I did not get any help from anyone, she actually asked me twice if anyone helped me prepare, she told me to mail it asap.

You need to file "Service" of the plan. That's a very specific type of document. That "certificate of service" must also be filed with the court. The CMRR doesn't matter for service of this document, adding additional costs, but is a nice thing.

JB, I think the plan was filed, just not served on the creditors.

Even though you write this, there was probably a deficiency created because the plan was not served. The best thing to do is to call your Case Manager and see if the Case Manager served it on the creditors. My Case Manager was nice and always served my Plan for me.

The reason I ask to seek out the Case Manager is I'm shocked that there is no deficiency. If there was no deficiency, then, perhaps, the Case Manager served the Plan via the BNC.

[highnndry]

The plan has been filed before the 15 days, I just didn't know I had to mail it to the creditors. When the trustee saw that I did not get any help from anyone, she actually asked me twice if anyone helped me prepare, she told me to mail it asap.

[LadyInTheRed]

JB, I think the plan was filed, just not served on the creditors.

[justbroke]

I don't see a judge liking ANY of the reasons stated above. The Trustee will almost certainly object... or they feel real sorry for you. That doesn't mean that a creditor won't step in and object either!

This is a serious matter and you really need to have a "proper" plan before you even serve it on the creditors. I'm surprised your case hasn't been dismissed under 11 USC 521 for failure to file your Plan within 15 days of filing your case.

[LadyInTheRed]

Judge: Why is your entertainment expense so high?

Me: Your honor, have you been out on a date recently? Here in southern Cali.... ok all jokes aside my entertainment expense is 200. I figured all these expenses are gonna go to the chopping block anyway, so I wanted to make them as high as possible so that after all the chopping I'll have some left over to work with.

Judge: Take your dates on a picnic. You are bankrupt. A $200 entertainment expenses is a luxury a Chap 13 debtor is not allowed. All of your expenses stated on Schedule J are high? Do you realize you signed your bankruptcy petition under penalty of perjury? Well, let's go through them one by one and see how much you can really pay to unsecured creditors.

I obviously don't know what the judge would say. But if you think you will be allowed anywhere close to $200 in entertainment and $100 in recreation, you are dreaming. You need to be ready to do some belt tightening. I sure wouldn't admit to the judge that I intentionaly claimed expenses on Schedule J that are higher than I actually thought they would be.

About the auto repair bill, my car as it stands will not pass the smog check. It has over 160K miles on it, it actually needs a rebuilt engine its running on 5 cylinder out of 6. I set aside $300 figuring if it flies thru then I'll shop for a used car with that monthly payment. My transportation expense is significantly lower in the plan, I made a mistake there, it should be $100 a week. A full tank gas alone is $60 and it barely runs thru the week.

You are going to need to support that $300. Based on another thread, I believe your income is under median which means you would be in a 36 month plan. So, you are talking about $10,800 in car repairs in 3 years. You better be able to document that. You should probably get a couple of written estimates of what it will cost to get your car up and running. Divide the cost by 36 months and add a reasonable operating expense on top of that. Note that the IRS standards for vehicle operating expenses in Los Angeles is $295: http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa...xp_Stds_WE.htm. You may be able to justify a higher expense, but you'll have to document it. You don't get the ownership cost unless you have a car payment.

You might want to look into the Consumer Assistance Program for cars that don't pass smog. Years ago, the state paid me $1,000 for a vehicle that didn't pass smog. http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/80_BARRe...p_program.html But, you may need to get the trustee's permission to do that.

I have mailed the plan today CMRR and will fax the CMRR to the trustee along with the copy of the rental payment check that she has requested. I'll file the schedule C by Friday, I have downloaded a few samples.

Excellent.

The reason I filed on my own is because I have no asset, if I had any asset or mortgage or whatever I wouldn't have filed on my own.

Assets or no assets, a pro se Chap 13 is a big challenge. By the way, you DO have assets, even if they all may be exempt.

[highnndry]

Good luck convincing a judge you need to spend $300 a month in entertainment and recreation

Judge: Why is your entertainment expense so high?

Me: Your honor, have you been out on a date recently? Here in southern Cali.... ok all jokes aside my entertainment expense is 200. I figured all these expenses are gonna go to the chopping block anyway, so I wanted to make them as high as possible so that after all the chopping I'll have some left over to work with.

About the auto repair bill, my car as it stands will not pass the smog check. It has over 160K miles on it, it actually needs a rebuilt engine its running on 5 cylinder out of 6. I set aside $300 figuring if it flies thru then I'll shop for a used car with that monthly payment. My transportation expense is significantly lower in the plan, I made a mistake there, it should be $100 a week. A full tank gas alone is $60 and it barely runs thru the week.

I have mailed the plan today CMRR and will fax the CMRR to the trustee along with the copy of the rental payment check that she has requested. I'll file the schedule C by Friday, I have downloaded a few samples.

The reason I filed on my own is because I have no asset, if I had any asset or mortgage or whatever I wouldn't have filed on my own.

[LadyInTheRed]

I set-up my payment plan in a way that there is no additional fund available after paying IRS and State tax. If the trustee finds a way then I will have to fight it and hopefully can drag my feet. One of the creditor sued me and I dragged them for a year to get a settlement but they refused so right before trial date I had to file ch-13.

You can't delay a bankruptcy proceeding in the same way you can a civil law suit. The trustee will probably object to confirmation of your plan. [Based on the expense figures you posted, if she doesn't object she is either not paying attention, doesn't care, or is a very charitable trustee]. You will then have to file an amended plan that the trustee will not object to. If you are unable to get the trustee to withdrawal her objection to confirmation, you will have to go to the confirmation hearing and convince the judge why the law supports confirmation of your plan. Good luck convincing a judge you need to spend $300 a month in entertainment and recreation and another $300 on auto repair in addition to the other auto and transportation expenses you list.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and see what the trustee does, if not in my favor then I'll try to get an extension. Do they give extensions?

It's up to the judge. Anything is possible, but don't count on it. Not sure what you want to extend. The confirmation hearing? You should check local rules to see if there is any guidance. You'll need a good reason. The best reason may be that you need to time to find an attorney. But, I wouldn't say that unless it is really what you intend to do.

You have serious issues you need to take care of before you even get to confirmation. You need to get the plan served on the creditors and file a proof of service with the court. You need to get Schedule C filed with the court (Schedule C = "exemption form").

Get to your court's probono clinic as soon as you possibly can. I hope you will be the story of the Pro Se Chap 13 filer who overcame initial errors and got confirmed. But, I fear you are going to be an example of why a Chap 13 should not be filed Pro Se.

[SMinGA2]

You can't 'restart the clock' while you're in an active bankruptcy. There is no SOL clock for you right now, actually. SOL is tolled, as JustBroke said. (I could not remember the terminology before.) Such as if you were at the 3.5 year mark on the day you filed, then you'll be at the 3.5 year mark on the day you're dismissed. Its like time stops. If you have a successful plan, however, general unsecured debts are discharged in the end. You'll owe them nothing more. If they try to sue, you would answer with details (case #, etc.) of your bankruptcy case.