Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do: (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.

Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Chapter 7 car surrender issue

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Chapter 7 car surrender issue

    Hello all, things have been moving along pretty smoothly with my Chapter 7 and my 341 is scheduled for next week. I am mildly anxious but all in all feeling pretty good about things.

    Today, however, an issue came up that I was not expecting. I have two vehicles, one has already been reaffirmed and I notified the lender of my intention to surrender the second car. My attorney just received the surrender notice from the lender and promptly told me NOT to sign it. Apparently the bank wants the right to come after me for deficiency once they sell the car, as part of the surrender agreement. Given that the car is only worth about 2K and the loan is 10K, this is obviously not an option for me. My attorney instructed me to contact them and request to simply drop the car off a local branch with a loan officer. He didn't mention what happens if they say no.

    So my questions are #1, what DOES happen if they say no? And is this a common thing? I thought that surrendering a vehicle was pretty straightforward.

  • #2
    This is the first I've heard of a surrender agreement. I don't know why anybody would sign such a thing. It's probably unenforceable. If you don't reaffirm, the debt is discharged, period. If the creditor doesn't want you to bring the car to them, then you can drive it until they come to get it.
    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


    • #3
      Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
      This is the first I've heard of a surrender agreement. I don't know why anybody would sign such a thing. It's probably unenforceable. If you don't reaffirm, the debt is discharged, period. If the creditor doesn't want you to bring the car to them, then you can drive it until they come to get it.
      Thanks for the input. I am new to all of this so I guess I thought the surrender agreement was just a normal part of the process. It only became an issue when this deficiency clause popped up. I am hopeful that the bank will just agree to accept the car at their branch. I just want this entire process to be over and done with so I can get back to life again.


      • #4
        The "surrender agreement" sounds pretty fishy and possibly illegal. Your attorney was right to tell you not to sign. Surrenders are very straightforward: you tell the bank where to pick up the car (or ask where they want it dropped off) and that's it. If they don't cooperate, either by picking up the car or giving you a drop-off location, that's their problem, not yours, and they can't take any further action. They're entitled to take the car. That's it.
        This post does not constitute legal advice. If you use this advice instead of that of a lawyer, God help you.
        Filed CH 7: 5/11/17 341: 6/12/17 Discharge: 8/14/17


        • #5
          I agree that your attorney did well advising you NOT to sign this. Your right to discharge the lender's debt in bankruptcy cannot be "signed away" without a formal reaffirmation agreement, so this backdoor attempt to enforce a deficiency is illegal.

          You are NOT obligated to do anything more than offer to let the lender pick up the car, and refrain from doing anything to thwart their attempts to claim their collateral, such as hiding the car. If the car is really only worth $2000 as you say, the lender probably won't bother, and you will get to keep the car for free. The only issue is that when it comes time to junk the car, you will need to find a junkyard who will take it with no title, as the lender isn't going to release their lien unless paid.


          • #6
            Thank you everyone for your help. I put through a call to the lender today who said they would have to run things past their legal people and they would call me back shortly. No call was ever returned. I guess I will just keep driving it until I hear something different from the lender. Seems rather silly on their part but that is just my opinion.


            • #7
              I, personally, would not waste my time calling the lender. Only go through your own attorney. Don't do the lender's work for them. They should be able to follow the law and repossess the vehicle. As bochen eludes, it just may not be worth it for them.
              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


              • #8
                Update on the car situation. I have not heard a word from Wells Fargo about the car since my above post-so over 2 months. My 60 days was over on Monday. Today I see on Pacer where Wells Fargo has requested relief from the automatic stay. I actually thought the automatic stay was over once the 60 days was up. Anyway, I am assuming that since they took that action that they intend on coming to get the car at some point in the near future. Will be sad to see it go but my insurance will go down with only 1 car to cover. Hopefully they contact me before the pickup as they promised. Not a lot of faith in Wells Fargo at this point.


                • #9
                  The automatic stay lasts until discharge or otherwise lifted by the court. I am not certain, but I thought the stay did not apply to assets you state you are surrendering. Maybe they file out of caution.

                  Don't count on them​​​​ calling you first. Don't leave anything in the car and be prepared to find it gone anytime after the stay is lifted.
                  LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                  Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                  $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


                  • #10
                    I am afraid they will probably just grab it without any notification. Got multiple assurances to the contrary but not impressed with Wells Fargo's honesty at this point. I will clean the car out tomorrow and leave it parked. They would be smarter to call me and get the $600 worth of keys that go with the vehicle!


                    • #11
                      We surrendered our travel trailer and they DID have to wait until discharge. Our attorney assured us of this. They called us the very next day to make arrangements to pick it up. Good luck!


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Chrysalis View Post
                        We surrendered our travel trailer and they DID have to wait until discharge. Our attorney assured us of this.
                        Thanks for speaking up Chrysalis. I looked this up and what I was thinking of applies only to Chap 13. In a Chap 13, the stay is automatically lifted as to surrendered property when the plan is confirmed and the creditor does not need a relief from stay to repossess the property. In a Chap 7, the stay remains until discharge or an order lifting the stay.

                        mmeier79, you can count on keeping the car at least until the earlier of the discharge order or the court lifting the automatic stay.
                        LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                        Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                        $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!


                        Unconfigured Ad Widget