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Does anyone know what car valuation Middle District FL uses?

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    Does anyone know what car valuation Middle District FL uses?

    I am nervous because KBB PPV now is showing higher than when I was filling out my paperwork (case is already in progress).

    Frankly, the value shown on KBB PPV is ridiculous. I am thinking of going to my local dealership and getting an appraisal just to be safe in case any complications arise.


    #2
    Most courts in Florida Middle, that I know, use the NADA Southeast Region guidebook. For a Chapter 7, it is difficult to know what a specific Chapter 7 (panel) Trustee will utilize. Please remember that valuation can be tenuous at best. You could use Edmunds and the Trustee is using Kelley Blue Book (KBB). The prices will differ. If you're wondering, you could try to see online prices from Black Book, KBB, and Edmunds just to see the differences.

    The Trustee is likely to look, but I can't say which book the Trustee will utilize.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


      #3
      Do you know which NADA value they use?

      Yeah, the differences among some of the sites was significant. The KBB numbers are outright fantasy. The average of NADA 'clean retail' and 'clean trade in' seemed to yield a seemingly fair number. I am not sure trustee allows for 'averaging' like that, though.

      Edmunds yielded the lowest number for "private party value/average condition".

      Comment


        #4
        From what I recall, the Middle District relies on the NADA Southeastern Edition using the clean retail value. You could argue, as I did, that the car's check-engine light is on and it needs 4 new tires (true story). (I had put that in the comments for one of the vehicles because I used Edmunds average private party.

        Anyhow, my Trustee didn't seem to care so it was never an issue.
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


          #5
          Glad to hear it went smoothly! I just made an appointment at my local dealership and I am just going to be straight-up with them and tell them it is for bankruptcy valuation and to let me know of any work that it is currently in need of. I do know that I need new tires, as well.

          I should have done this prior to filing, but oh, well.

          Comment


            #6
            I would not get a valuation from a dealership. The court only uses the guidebooks. Now, if you had a valuation hearing because you were doing a motion to determine secured value (in a Chapter 13) or a motion to redeem (in a Chapter 7), then an expert witness testifying may be prudent. However, this is not that type of hearing.

            Even your mechanic or your dealership is going to use a guidebook. Just pick a guidebook and don't try to get the lowest possible value. Make sure the valuation is within reason (e.g. don't take Edmunds Poor condition when the vehicle is in average condition).

            I used Edmunds. No one questioned my valuation because it likely was close to what was in NADA.
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


              #7
              No, I was just going to have the dealership tell me what work needs to be done (for bankruptcy valuation purposes). I don't mean an appraisal.

              When you say your valuation was likely close to NADA, which NADA value are you referring to (average trade-in, clean private party, clean trade-in or clean retail, etc.)?
              Last edited by Ekop785; 05-02-2021, 02:21 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                It looks like Edmunds "clean" private party value most closely resembles what I honestly feel the car is worth and to what I indicated on my property schedule (it is $ 100 over).

                I think I will be okay.

                Comment


                  #9
                  My Edmunds "clean" private party, which is what I used, was closer to the bank's NADA Southeastern "clean retail" for some reason.
                  Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                  Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                  Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                  I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Upon reviewing the list of docs that I need to send trustee, the vehicles box states KBB PPV will be used unless I have a written appraisal from a 'certified' appraiser noting the retail value less retail cost of repairs.

                    I am so upset - I had planned on submitting the Edmunds clean PPV. The KBB PPV is fantasy.

                    I have no idea what appraiser to use - there is a 'certified' appraiser in St. Pete, but it looks like they do fancy cars.

                    If anyone has any appraiser suggestions, I am all ears.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hmmm, I just ran my 2006 Acura TL Sport (meaning 6-Speed manual and Brembo brakes) and the PPV was pretty spot on. Quite honestly, this may be the first time I've ever seen a reasonable valuation from KBB. Go figure.
                      Latent car nut.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by shipo View Post
                        Hmmm, I just ran my 2006 Acura TL Sport (meaning 6-Speed manual and Brembo brakes) and the PPV was pretty spot on. Quite honestly, this may be the first time I've ever seen a reasonable valuation from KBB. Go figure.
                        Go figure, indeed. Aren't you fortunate? My current KBB PPV is not spot on. I will get it appraised. That is all I can do. This stress is going to give me a bleeding ulcer. In a worse case scenerio, I will file an amendment and use every dime of exemptions to keep my car and there will not be a penny left over for personal belongings, etc (literally, not a penny). They can come take my sofa and tv. I don't care. I need my car - and I honestly don't believe the KBB PPV value is realistic.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Wow, do other valuation sites, say the one on Edmunds track with KBB, or is KBB hanging way out in the breeze?

                          Edit: I just used the Edmunds TMV Calculator on my car and it came up between $500 and $1,500 lower than KBB. FWIW, when I filed for Chapter 13 back in 2015 I used the Edmunds calculator for my valuations and my Trustee didn't blink.
                          Last edited by shipo; 05-04-2021, 09:17 AM.
                          Latent car nut.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Ekop785 View Post
                            I am so upset - I had planned on submitting the Edmunds clean PPV. The KBB PPV is fantasy.
                            And now you know why that particular Chapter 7 Trustee chose KBB private-party value! Because it is higher!

                            Bring it over to someone like CarMax and have them give you an offer. I don't know if that's good enough. You'd have to contact the Trustee assigned to your case if they'll except a CarMax offer. I think the CarMax offer is not a private-party value but rather a retail buy.
                            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by shipo View Post
                              Wow, do other valuation sites, say the one on Edmunds track with KBB, or is KBB hanging way out in the breeze?
                              Yup, KBB PPV is showing $ 1300 higher than Edmunds clean PPV.

                              Comment

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