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Pro Se Ch7 non-consumer in MN - My Story

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    Pro Se Ch7 non-consumer in MN - My Story

    i am the sole proprietor of a failed small business; i owe about $15,000 in non-consumer, business related debt, and about $3,000 in personal, consumer debt.

    although the means test is not required for non-consumer CH7, my income is at or below the MN median income. i have one judgment against me already, and a lawsuit pending. none of my debt is secured debt.

    i am pretty sure i'll be a no asset case, and i'm also pretty sure that i'll have a colorful 341 hearing, as i've had the (dis)pleasure of 'working' with an abusive collection law firm (Como Law Firm = awful) and they're worse than sharks in chummed waters.

    i can in no way afford legal representation, so i've been slowly working through the bk forms and collecting my documents.

    i'm scared, and i need to find my social security card tonight or i'll never get to sleep, because even though i haven't filed yet, i get the feeling no one ever feels prepared enough for their 341 hearing.

    thank you in advance to anyone who visits my thread and offers help or support.
    Last edited by soleprop; 07-29-2008, 02:45 PM.
    Filed 7/28/08, Discharged 10/29/08
    (filed pro se: nonconsumer no asset CH7)

    #2
    Hi soleprop,
    I am in the same boat--failed small business. I did retain a lawyer, and will be filing in the next few weeks--just finishing the closing process and final inventory, etc.
    I have close to 80,000 in unsecured debt--made the mistake of financing a good chunk of my business on credit cards. In my mind I was using the excellent credit history that I had established to start up the new business. No excellent credit history now...
    I hope that all goes well for you. I feel a bit overwhelmed by the whole process, but I am trying to take it one step at a time. No complaints or suits yet, so I still feel like I can take my time--but I imagine someone will file something legal soon and I will probably have to speed up the process on my end.
    The biggest problem I have right now is trying to get they business closed and get the final inventory. I still have a lot of inventory--which most likely won't be exempt.
    Hope that all goes well for you.

    Comment


      #3
      One thing you need to look for is Minnesota has no wild card exemption but you can use the federal wildcard exemption. Be sure to exempt your tax refunds if you have any AND your stimulus check as well. I went pro se, forgot to exempt those and was going to have to pay back $2500 because I spent them all and trustee wanted it. He also took money out of my checking acct as I forgot to include it in the filing and exempt it. I ended up hiring an attny to ammend my filing and I no longer have to pay the 2500 back and will be getting the money back they took from my checking acct. Where are you in minnesota, you might want to check with the attorney I hired. He did a great job.
      I'm at day 61 should be closed soon.

      DB
      Chapter 7 filed 3/31/08
      341 5/12/08
      Last day for objection 7/11/08
      AUTOMATIC ORDER DISCHARGING DEBTOR 7/15/08 :yahoo::yahoo:

      Comment


        #4
        Update - My Preparations

        i'm treating this thread a little bit like a journal - except it is better than an actual journal because you all can chime in - and maybe when it's all said and done, some stressed out person considering pro se ch7 nonconsumer bk will stumble upon it and see end to end what questions and doubt you can start out with, what work and organization you end up having to do, and (hopefully) what relief is at the end of the journey.

        that said, i've spent the weekend getting organized:
        • bank statements - three years worth printed and itemized into spending categories.
        • receipts - all of the paper receipts going back three years organized by month - not a complete collection but it's what i had, and all business related receipts separated from personal.
        • assets - everything i own listed in a file and organized under the exemption categories.
        • creditors - all of their info, letters, and statements organized into folders.
        • income - all paystubs for the last year printed and in a folder.
        • taxes - all filed taxes for the last three years printed and in a folder.
        • forms - all required bk forms printed so i can complete my first drafts of them...i'd previously completed a few here or there as i considered bk, but this is my first earnest attempt at preparing to file pro se.


        i've also started taking pictures of the shop fixtures i still have (southernbelle, i think it was you that gave me this idea!), which i'm hoping to protect under 'tools of the trade' but i'm unsure how that'll go.

        today's work will be complete schedule J and review/fill in all forms and schedules listed before that one.

        i'd like to file this wednesday before i get my next paycheck (this next friday) because my account should be sufficiently drained by my living expenses. if i can't get everything in order by then, i'll file after my next paycheck and i've paid rent, etc.

        my question for the day: what has been everyone/anyone's experience with their bank account post filing - does the trustee take the available funds out of your account, and if so, when? i'm just nervous that if i file this wednesday, the trustee might take funds from my account friday which would catch my paycheck and then i wouldn't be able to pay rent.


        ok, that's it for now - thanks for reading!
        Filed 7/28/08, Discharged 10/29/08
        (filed pro se: nonconsumer no asset CH7)

        Comment


          #5
          My Resource List for Pro Se Ch7 in MN

          for someone just passing through, this is the reference list i created for filing bk pro se in MN - relevant to the year 2008 - and to my case (some marked NA for me may be applicable to others). also to those keeping up with my filing, although i have the forms marked NA (not applicable) here, i do plan to fill them out and include them in my BK, i just wanted a way to see which forms needed a lot of my attention and which did not.











          From http://www.uscourts.gov/bkforms/bankruptcy_forms.html
          ----------------------------------------------------------

          Form 1 Voluntary Petition:

          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For..._001_0108f.pdf

          Form 6:

          Schedule A - Real Property (NA):
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_6A_1207.pdf

          Schedule B - Personal Property:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_6B_1207.pdf

          Schedule C - Property Claimed as Exempt:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_6C_1207.pdf

          Schedule D - Creditors Holding Secured Claims (NA):
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_6D_1207.pdf

          Schedule E - Creditors HOlding Unsecured Priority Claims (NA):

          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_6E_1207.pdf

          Schedule F - Creditors Holding Unsecured Nonpriority Claims:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_6F_1207.pdf

          ** PUT MY TRAFFIC FINES AND ABANDONED SECURITY DEPOSITS HERE **

          Schedule G - Executory Contracts and Unexpired Leases:

          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_6G_1207.pdf

          Schedule H - Codebtors (NA):
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_6H_1207.pdf

          Schedule I - Current Income:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_6I_1207.pdf

          Schedule J - Current Expenditures:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_6J_1207.pdf

          Summary of Schedules A through J:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...mary_1207f.pdf

          Statistical Summary of Certain Liabilities (included in summary)

          Declaration Concerning Debtor's Schedules:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...6_Dec_1207.pdf

          Form 7 - Statement of Financial Affairs:

          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...orm_7_1207.pdf

          Form 8 - Chapter 7 Individual Debtor's Statement of Intention:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For..._008_1005f.pdf

          Form 21 - Full Social Security Number Disclosure:

          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_21_1207.pdf

          Form 22A - Statement of Current Monthly Income and Means Test Calculation:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...22A_0108v2.pdf

          Form 23 - Certification of Instructional Course on Financial Management:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...rm_23_1207.pdf

          Form 201 - Notice to Individual Consumer Debtor Under 342 of the Bankruptcy Code:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/bkforms/official/b201_0406.pdf

          Mailing Matrix:
          http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov/Newsite/...matrixprep.pdf

          Amendments to petition/lists/statements/schedules
          http://forms.lp.findlaw.com/form/cou...vaeb000005.pdf

          Resources
          Federal Exemptions:
          Need link

          Minnesota State Exemptions:
          Need link


          MN CH7 Requirements and Fees:
          http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov/Newsite/...er7filing.html

          ++This page suggests I'll need the following additional local forms:

          ** Certificate of intent to cure rent and rent deposit (if applicable):

          Payment Advices Cover Sheet:
          http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov/Newsite/...CESrevised.pdf

          Signature Declaration form:
          http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov/Newsite/...ms/sdf_new.PDF


          ** Proof of authority to sign and file petition (Local Form 1008-1) - file as biz = need this.


          MEANS TEST:
          http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/meanstesting.htm up to and through part 3 still needs filling out.

          Notice to Consumer Debtors:
          http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov/Newsite/...2(b)notice.pdf

          MN Bankruptcy Court:
          301 United States Courthouse
          300 South Fourth Street
          Minneapolis, MN 55415

          St. Paul 341 Meeting location:
          http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov/Newsite/...irections.html
          St. Paul
          180 East Fifth Street Building
          Suite 680
          St. Paul, MN 55101


          Phone: 612-664-5200
          http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov

          Filing Without An Attorney:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcycourts/prose.html

          MN Self Help:
          http://www.mncourts.gov/?siteID=4

          MN Forms etc:
          http://www.mncourts.gov/district/4/?page=1824
          http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov/Newsite/...er7filing.html

          MN RULES AND FORMS:
          http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov/Newsite/...ndexRules.html
          http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov/Newsite/...esandforms.pdf

          Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure:
          http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frbp/

          Bankruptcy Glossary:

          http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcyco.../glossary.html

          Good information from UScourts.gov on CH7:
          http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcyco...asics04606.pdf or
          http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcyco.../chapter7.html

          Approved Credit Counseling Services:
          http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/ccde/cc_approved.htm

          Approved Financial Management Courses:

          http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/ccde/de_approved.htm

          Expenses allowed:
          http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/2..._standards.htm

          Needs based bankruptcy explanation:
          http://www.doney.net/bra/707_comment.htm
          Last edited by soleprop; 09-08-2008, 01:14 PM. Reason: advert blocked part of quote
          Filed 7/28/08, Discharged 10/29/08
          (filed pro se: nonconsumer no asset CH7)

          Comment


            #6
            Good luck Soleprop. You seem to have it all together and I'm sure you'll do fine. Just get all of your paperwork together and have it all ready for the 341 so that you're prepared for anything the trustee throws at you. I know you can do it. Good luck.
            Filed Chapter 7 (Primarily Business Expenses) 04/10/2008 FICO 468 :cry:
            341 on 05/06/08:unsure:House appraisal on day 63:blink: 07/10/2008 Discharged-Asset Case!!!:yahoo:08/09 Transu 559, Equifax 636, Experian 647
            Case Closed 07/15/2009 :D:yahoo:

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by deafbroke View Post
              One thing you need to look for is Minnesota has no wild card exemption but you can use the federal wildcard exemption. Be sure to exempt your tax refunds if you have any AND your stimulus check as well. I went pro se, forgot to exempt those and was going to have to pay back $2500 because I spent them all and trustee wanted it. He also took money out of my checking acct as I forgot to include it in the filing and exempt it. I ended up hiring an attny to ammend my filing and I no longer have to pay the 2500 back and will be getting the money back they took from my checking acct. Where are you in minnesota, you might want to check with the attorney I hired. He did a great job.
              I'm at day 61 should be closed soon.

              DB
              Wouldnt that be a non issue (the refund/stimulus checks) for those who were filing after they had already spent the money, I mean you arent supposed to claim exemptions on money that isnt there anymore...right? (i am asking because I am not sure, not to be a a**)
              Not only am I not a lawyer, the California BAR association has sent me numerous letters telling me not to even THINK about going to law school. In fact, the lay advice I provide is not even good. In the end remember, you get what you pay for, and here in BK land were not the best at paying.

              Comment


                #8
                i don't know...i'm still researching how tax refunds and stimulus checks are handled in bankruptcy. mine are definitely spent, and to exempt-able things.
                Filed 7/28/08, Discharged 10/29/08
                (filed pro se: nonconsumer no asset CH7)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Clarification on income and nonconsumer CH7

                  i can't get it through my thick head that because my debts are primarily (50% or more) nonconsumer debts, it does not matter how much money i make; i can file CH7. the following article has helped reaffirm the fact for me, though:

                  http://www.*************************/...ollars-a-year/

                  what i don't know is how, if at all, the trustee will be able to demand i pay my creditors anything?

                  i'm filing a no asset case and everything i have fits well inside of the allowed exemptions.

                  could be another thick head moment that i'll sort myself out of, but if anyone wants to beat it into me or clarify for me, please do!
                  Filed 7/28/08, Discharged 10/29/08
                  (filed pro se: nonconsumer no asset CH7)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The more answers you find, the more questions you have.

                    I want to link to another thread that I hope will help other people with nonconsumer debt understand what nonconsumer CH7 bankruptcy is about. This thread is my personal story/journal - and the one I'm linking to I hope will become a resource - because I'd like to have one right now and I'm just not finding enough meat and potatoes.

                    The link: NonConsumer CH7 - Shedding Some Light
                    Last edited by soleprop; 09-12-2008, 12:11 PM. Reason: fixed URL.
                    Filed 7/28/08, Discharged 10/29/08
                    (filed pro se: nonconsumer no asset CH7)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Filed 7/28/08, Discharged 10/29/08
                      (filed pro se: nonconsumer no asset CH7)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        MN Bankruptcies Filed - Statistics by month/year

                        Wow....the numbers for 2008 are waaaay up compared to 2007.

                        http://www.mnb.uscourts.gov/Newsite/...tatistics.html
                        Filed 7/28/08, Discharged 10/29/08
                        (filed pro se: nonconsumer no asset CH7)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Learned some things about filing today

                          talked to the clerk at the court today, and learned that MN likes filers to:
                          • use paperclips, not staples, to organize the documents.
                          • use all caps on the creditor matrix, and no punctuation.
                          • center the creditors down the page, double space between each creditor, and don't include account numbers.
                          • include only 60 days worth of pay stubs (i was going to include 6 months); have the rest handy for the 341 though.
                          • do not include anything other than pay stubs as income information in the filing; have stimulus and tax return info handy in case the trustee asks for it later.
                          • even though the means test says not to fill out the rest of the form if you have primarily nonconsumer debts and the presumption does not arise, the MN BK court wants you to fill out at least the first page and a half anyway, and sign it.


                          that last one bothers me. but i'll abide.
                          Filed 7/28/08, Discharged 10/29/08
                          (filed pro se: nonconsumer no asset CH7)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Handy link to MN exemptions (lots more detail than in the NOLO book):

                            http://www.naldp.org/download/exempt...EXEMPTIONS.pdf


                            And, the NOLO book says it has a list of Federal Non Bankruptcy Exemptions (which you can apply in addition to the state exemptions, if you opt for state exemption list vs. fed) in Appendix 1, but it doesn't (sigh). So I found this link:

                            http://www.bcsalliance.com/bankruptc...xemptions.html
                            Last edited by soleprop; 07-27-2008, 07:01 PM.
                            Filed 7/28/08, Discharged 10/29/08
                            (filed pro se: nonconsumer no asset CH7)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              soleprop - good luck on your filing! I also am in MN but had an attny on my side.
                              Good luck.
                              Filed: 01/23/08
                              341 Meeting: 02/29/08
                              Discharged: 04/30/08
                              Closed: 05/12/08

                              Comment

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