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Second Mortgage Settled in Full after BK!!!!!

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    Second Mortgage Settled in Full after BK!!!!!

    I settled on my second after a Chapter 7 bankruptcy! My offer was approved, I wired the money, verified they received it, and now am waiting for my "settled in full" letter and release of lien. Here are the details:

    House is worth between $520K and $550K. Zillow shows it at $541,500.

    First loan of $544,000 with GMAC. Signed a loan mod while in active BK but the loan did not get reaffirmed (whole 'nother story). We were 7 months behind and owned 2 years property taxes. Went from an Option Arm to a fixed at 6%, captialized the taxes and was forgiven approx. $13,000.

    Second loan of $62,782 with Green Tree. Stopped paying when we filed BK in July. Green Tree sent a reaffirmation agreement while in active BK but we didn't sign it. After BK discharge, Green Tree called to see what we were going to do with the property. I told them it was a rental and we were 7 months behind on the first loan. We would like to save it and move into it but if we couldn't get a mod on the first and settle the second, we would let it foreclose. She told me to send in a settlement proposal with a hardship letter, 2 years taxes, expense sheet, P&Ls, etc.

    I prepared a hardship letter and made them an offer. We had just received an unexpected check from an old class action suit for $3,376. I offered that amount to settle the debt if they would release the lien. I told them I was not sending in any financial information because we were discharged of the debt and didn't owe them anything. My financial situation should have no bearing on the settlement. I told them, upon settlement approval, I would send them the money within 10 days. I included comps for my neighborhood showing Green Tree's lien was not secured by equity. Then I waited.

    I got a phone call that my offer was refused. They wouldn't settle for any less than 50%. I decided to kick it up a knoch. I found some email addresses for the higher ups on the Loansafe.org forum. I sent my letter out to all of them and requested they reconsider. I received a call from the a head honcho of Loss Mitigation. He said "I understand you refuse to send in your financial information. I told him that was correct and gave him the same explanation as I did the other person. He agreed with me that I didn't have to send them. He went on the tell me there was no way they would consider settling for $3,376 on a $62,000 debt. I asked him if they would rather get nothing than settle for less than 50%. He said "Pretty much". So, I thanked him for the call and waited...

    About 2 weeks later, I get a call from the first person that had called me. She asked if I was still interested in settling. I told her I was but they better get me an answer quick. I just received a letter from the IRS of an intent to levy. If Green Tree didn't take the money quickly, it was going the IRS (By the way, I worked out a resonable payment plan with the IRS). Within 2 days, I got a call from Green Tree that they approved my offer. Yiipee!!!!

    So, I settled $62,872 for $3,376. That's about 5.37%.
    Filed Non-Consumer Chapter 7: 07/31/2009
    341 Hearing: 09/03/2009
    Last Day for Creditor's Objections: 11/02/2009
    Discharged! 11/03/2009 CLOSED! 01/05/2010

    #2
    Be prepared to receive a 1099 this time next year for about $59,500 and for the $13,000 on the first mortgage shortly if it took place in 2009.
    _________________________________________
    Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
    Early Buy-Out: April 2006
    Discharge: August 2006

    "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
      Be prepared to receive a 1099 this time next year for about $59,500 and for the $13,000 on the first mortgage shortly if it took place in 2009.
      But isn't it exempt from taxes since the original amount was discharged in BK?
      Theoretically all she did was pay them to remove the lien.

      Comment


        #4
        chad9162 - That's my understanding. The banks may issue 1099's but IRS is aware I was insolvant at the time and the entire debt was discharged through my BK (both the 1st and 2nd).
        Filed Non-Consumer Chapter 7: 07/31/2009
        341 Hearing: 09/03/2009
        Last Day for Creditor's Objections: 11/02/2009
        Discharged! 11/03/2009 CLOSED! 01/05/2010

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by SleepWellNow View Post
          chad9162 - That's my understanding. The banks may issue 1099's but IRS is aware I was insolvant at the time and the entire debt was discharged through my BK (both the 1st and 2nd).
          Yep, the way I see it is that you paid $3,376 to have a lien removed not make $59,000 or $13,000???

          Comment


            #6
            You state you modified your first mortgage while in active BK so I am assuming this was done after you filed so the new loan was not part of the bankruptcy filing. Secondly you have not yet received the paperwork as to your second mortgage yet as to the wording of the settlement; things could be stated quite differently than what you are stating here - better read it carefully and get yourself a good tax expert because if you were financially able to modify your first mortgage during active Bk as you state for that amount of money, you had better be able to prove insolvency as to the forgiven amounts. Claiming insolvency with the IRS as to forgiven debt ups your chances of an audit quite a bit and that is why I recommend you get a tax professional to review your situation. Best of luck to you!
            _________________________________________
            Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
            Early Buy-Out: April 2006
            Discharge: August 2006

            "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by chad9162 View Post
              Yep, the way I see it is that you paid $3,376 to have a lien removed not make $59,000 or $13,000???
              You'll still get one. I believe the lenders are required to issue them even if you are not obligated to pay.

              And I do not know, but I'm thinking you'll be obligated.
              No Asset 7 closed 11/09

              Comment


                #8
                I am not a tax professional, but wouldn't the 1099(s) merely be reported on the Form 982 as amount excluded due to discharge of indebtedness in a title 11 case?

                If I understand correctly, both mortgage debts were discharged in OP's Chapter 7 BK. I'd be particularly interested to hear from any tax pros as to whether or not the line 1a exclusion is appropriate when the BK closed in '09 but the 1099 will be for the 2010 tax year. It seems to me there are more than a few of us discharged near the end of '09 who may well see interesting things happen to our mortgages/liens in the 2010 tax year.

                SleepWellNow, I am also very interested to hear the final decision as to the validity of your 1st mortgage mod--has anyone decided whether it's reaffirmed or not? Was the reaffirmation filed with the BK court? The situation you had described there would stress me more than just a little bit.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                  You state you modified your first mortgage while in active BK so I am assuming this was done after you filed so the new loan was not part of the bankruptcy filing. Secondly you have not yet received the paperwork as to your second mortgage yet as to the wording of the settlement; things could be stated quite differently than what you are stating here - better read it carefully and get yourself a good tax expert because if you were financially able to modify your first mortgage during active Bk as you state for that amount of money, you had better be able to prove insolvency as to the forgiven amounts. Claiming insolvency with the IRS as to forgiven debt ups your chances of an audit quite a bit and that is why I recommend you get a tax professional to review your situation. Best of luck to you!
                  Flamingo, Lets try not scare people about taxes and 1099's. I usually agree with most of your post but I believe you are incorrect in this situation.

                  1. The Mortgage Debt Relief Act of 2007

                  http://www.irs.gov/individuals/artic...179414,00.html

                  From the website....

                  Is Cancellation of Debt income always taxable?
                  Not always. There are some exceptions. The most common situations when cancellation of debt income is not taxable involve:
                  • Qualified principal residence indebtedness: This is the exception created by the Mortgage Debt Relief Act of 2007 and applies to most homeowners.
                  • Bankruptcy: Debts discharged through bankruptcy are not considered taxable income.
                  • Insolvency: If you are insolvent when the debt is cancelled, some or all of the cancelled debt may not be taxable to you. You are insolvent when your total debts are more than the fair market value of your total assets.
                  • Certain farm debts: If you incurred the debt directly in operation of a farm, more than half your income from the prior three years was from farming, and the loan was owed to a person or agency regularly engaged in lending, your cancelled debt is generally not considered taxable income.
                  • Non-recourse loans: A non-recourse loan is a loan for which the lender’s only remedy in case of default is to repossess the property being financed or used as collateral. That is, the lender cannot pursue you personally in case of default. Forgiveness of a non-recourse loan resulting from a foreclosure does not result in cancellation of debt income. However, it may result in other tax consequences.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Search Feature works also.....

                    http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=49405

                    http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?p=370026

                    http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=40048


                    Comment


                      #11
                      Our first loan was not reaffirmed. We had applied for a loan modification prior to filing and were put on trial payments. After making 3 of the trial payments, we filed BK. The lender then told us our trial mod was null and void due to the BK and would not take any more payments. I talked to the BK dept and they referred me to a negotiator who only works on mods for those in BK. I resubmitted all my paperwork and was approved for a modification within 2 weeks. A reaffirmation was incorporated in the mod agreement which we signed. The lender received our paperwork on a Thursday and then they filed a Motion for Relief of Stay on Friday. The next Tuesday we were discharged. According to my attorney, even though we signed the mod with reaffirmation wording, because the lender did not file a reaffirmation with the court prior to our discharge, the loan was not reaffirmed.

                      Regarding the second, we already received paperwork which states "upon receipt and verification of good funds, Green Tree will release the deed of trust/mortgage and the note will be settled in full".

                      I am expecting to get 1099's but I don't see how a person can get taxed on "forgiven debt" when there no longer is a debt due to the discharge. My attorney said I am free to walk away from the house at any time without owing a dime to anyone.

                      One more thing...we were a Non Consumer Chapter 7 therefore our income did not come into play.
                      Filed Non-Consumer Chapter 7: 07/31/2009
                      341 Hearing: 09/03/2009
                      Last Day for Creditor's Objections: 11/02/2009
                      Discharged! 11/03/2009 CLOSED! 01/05/2010

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Woo-Hoo!! Congrats, this is better than I was hoping to get in the end! I'd never heard of Green Tea before and I hope BOA gets aggressive like that! When I short sold my boat they originally said no to the offer and was stalling then we had a hurricane show up in the caribbean, I informed the bank take the offer or I will turn over the keys that it's sitting in the marina uninsured in the path of the hurricane. The bank responded that day and we were closed in less than 10.
                        If you think no one cares about you try missing a couple of payments.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          We are planning to file in June for Ch 7. We our current on both of our mortgage but would like to hopefully modify the first and settle the HELOC. We got our hour for 263K but we still owe 203K (7.125%) on the first and 53K (variable) on HELOC. I have both mortgage with Wellsfargo. Should I try to contact Wells now an try to see if they would
                          modify my first before BK or after? We are not reaffirming.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The 1099's are inconsequential because of insolvency and because of the Debt Relief Act.
                            7-2-2009 Filed
                            8-28-09 341 Concluded, no assets
                            10-28-09 DISCHARGED/CLOSED!!!!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hello Sleepwellnow!
                              When you where negotiating with Green Tree, how did you get the Heloc discharged in BK7? I have almost the exact situation as you did. I already modified the first-still up side down, and rented out. I have a 2nd with Green Tree that I havent paid in over a year. I am trying to file BK7 but I have not been successful in negotiating with GT, as a matter of fact the rep wont even process it over to negotiating department because she wants tax returns etc. i sent them a hardship letter and an empty bank statement. i have very little income and lost a business last year. they dont know the first is modified. and told them it really isnt worth keeping if the second is still hanging around. I want to proceed with BK but do not want to risk a foreclosure. My questions: Green Tree didnt know you where getting your first modified? You where able to keep the house after filing BK and not reaffirming? Is it just because they didnt forse a foreclosure? Do you have any contacts at Green Tree that I could address my proposal to? I really just want this negotiated prior to BK. Thanks for posting your experience.

                              Comment

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