Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do: (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.

Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Judgment after discharge and protest of discharge

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Judgment after discharge and protest of discharge

    As suggested, posting this to new thread. My husband and I have now been discharged from Chapter 7, but a creditor has filed a protest with the bankruptcy court. The protest seeks a judgment of over $700,000., primarily based on false allegations within a business deal that have never been proven and have never been adjudicated. Our bankruptcy attorney says we can fight it, but that it will be very costly.

    We have been stripped of everything we own, are in the process of having our home foreclosed, and have nothing left but our social security checks, due to the actions of this creditor's attorney who was previously the foreclosure attorney for the bank that foreclosed on a business property in which we were minority partners. Since the bank was bought out with TARP funding, no attorney would take our case because they said, while we could win it, we could not collect any money due to the FDIC taking over the liabilities of the bank, and also because the only attorney who would have considered it says this foreclosure attorney, now representing the firm she sold the note to for a fraction of its value, and her husband have so much power and influence that he would never be able to practice again in that city if he sued her (his partner apparently was actually threatened if he took our case).

    Does anyone have any advice for us in trying to stop this judgment against us? We barely have enough at this time for food, utilities and health insurance coverage. My husband is trying to find a job or consulting contract, but at age 69, even with his 50-year reputation as an honest, ethical Professional Engineer and commercial contractor, there is not much available for him.

  • #2
    You received your discharge, this specific creditor never filed an AP against you and now they are trying to object to the discharge of the debt and seek judgment??? I am certainly no expert but if they didn't file an AP, I thought they were SOL. I hope some of the experts can chime in here.

    jjim, I remember your case, yours was a more extreme version of our situation with my dh's business. I'm happy you found an attorney to work with you - did your son have to file too? I remember that you posted that he was involved with the business as well.


    • #3
      Here's what I just found by doing a little search ...

      Can the discharge be revoked?

      A discharge can be revoked under certain circumstances. For instance, a trustee, creditor, or the United States trustee may request that the court revoke the debtor’s discharge in a chapter 7 case based on:

      1) allegations that the debtor obtained the discharge fraudulently;

      2) the debtor failed to disclose the fact that he or she acquired or became entitled to acquire property that would constitute property of the bankruptcy estate or;

      3) the debtor committed one of several acts of impropriety described in section 727(a)(6) of the Bankruptcy Code.

      Typically, a request to revoke the debtor’s discharge must be filed within one year after the granting of the discharge or, in some cases, before the date that the case is closed. It is up to the court to determine whether such allegations are true and, if so, to revoke the discharge.

      In a chapter 13 case, if confirmation of a plan or the discharge is obtained through fraud, the court can revoke the order of confirmation or discharge.

      So what are they claiming - are they still trying to bark up the "fraud" tree? Does it state that they are trying to revoke the discharge of their debt?


      • #4
        I will assume that the 523 complaint was timely filed.

        You made a comment that your only current source of income is Social Security. Social Security is exempt, exempt, exempt. So, here is your food for thought:

        If we allow this creditor to get a non-dischargeability judgment against us for $700K how can he collect. We have nothing, are not working, have no non-exempt assets and our only source of income is Social Security which cannot be garnished. So, should we defend or just say "good luck trying to collect"?

        Now, if you have other income or plan on going back to work (as suggested in the post). . . well now the judgment may be worth something.

        If you cannot afford to defend, can you afford some sort of settlement - a lesser amount and paid out over time?



        • #5
          Thanks for the responses. This creditor's attorney appears to have a personal vendetta going on, and contested the bankruptcy from the beginning. The destruction of the businesses began with a partner's personal attorney (the partner could have stopped it, but he had given the attorney full control due to severe mental instability) who apparently had a deal with another person to buy the note on the project just as it was nearly finished, by forcing us out. That deal fell through because the apparent buyers were convicted of mortgage fraud and sentenced to prison terms, and apparently the money they were going to use did not exist once the FBI seized their assets. We believe that this attorney was in on the corrupt deal, and had to find another buyer, getting the underwriter for the bank to step up to cover up her involvement. During the process, my family members were accused falsely of a number of allegations, were put into bankruptcy by what apparently were allegations made directly from the foreclosure attorney to the construction company's bank and bonding company, causing the seizure of all construction company assets and equipment without proof or cause. By putting us into bankruptcy, they stopped us from being able to sue and from being heard in court.

          It now appears that this creditor's attorney is trying to force my husband to "cooperate" with them and go after the construction company's insurance carriers for money, trying to drum up false accusations of construction defects on the project. The new owners of the project have done nothing to preserve it for over three years, though it was 85% complete, and had been appraised at over $28 million. My husband will not lie for her, but I fear that, if he does testify to get away from this judgment, she will use her wiles to twist questions to make it appear as she wants it to, not for truth. We seem to have no other options.

          Someone just recently told me that usually these rich and powerful "a..holes" always win.


          • #6
            I have zero advice for you, just my sympathy, for what that's worth. What a terrible situation. I hope you and your hubby can find a way out of this. It seems someone is out for blood.
            Filed Ch 7 Pro Se 11-18-2010 341 Meeting 12-16-2010 Discharged 2-15-2011
            New Job 7-2011


            • #7
              Originally posted by jjim120 View Post
              Someone just recently told me that usually these rich and powerful "a..holes" always win.
              No, they don't!!!

              The Enemy we had for more than nine years--that drove us into BK and ill health--was struck down by Karma (his favorite word) on the Feast of All Fools, April 1, 2009, as he was posting his latest vile filth against us on the Internet. That resulted in a 10 hour open heart surgery, and complete loss of kidney function meaning he had to endure three days of dialysis every week. It also meant a loss of brain function, as he never posted again and had to have a power of attorney for his representative to handle his affairs.

              When last seen, he was but a pale, drooling shadow of himself. Google the painting, 'The Scream', and you will see him.

              He departed this earth this past October with few regrets from those who knew him.
              Last edited by AngelinaCat; 12-17-2010, 09:25 AM.
              "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

              "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."


              • #8
                Thanks. Chicagoannie, probably not for blood, just for money, though the majority partner's attorney has apparently built up a fortune and nearly total control of the area he works in by these kinds of crooked deals over the several decades. I call what they are doing blackmail and corruption, but apparently when it is done through the legal system it is called making money through "billable hours on contingency." We just learned that they got a judge to rule that any lawsuits filed in the future cannot be heard by a jury -- didn't know that was even possible in our legal system.


                • #9
                  Hi jjim120,

                  You might have answered this on the old thread, but was this creditor listed in the BK? And was an AP filed within 60 days after the 341?

                  If you suspect fraudulent activity by some attorneys, have you reported it to the State Bar Assoc ?

                  Sorry you have had to go through this mess, hopefully it gets straightened out...

                  Tom in Colo
                  Ch7 filed 5/12/2010.....341 meeting 6/30/ of no distribution 8/15/2010.....discharged 10/01/2010.....closed 11/09/2010


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AngelinaCat View Post
                    No, they don't!!!

                    The Enemy we had for more than nine years--that drove us into BK and ill health--was struck down by Karma (his favorite word) on the Feast of All Fools, April 1, 2009, as he was posting his latest vile filth against us on the Internet. That resulted in a 10 hour open heart surgery, and complete loss of kidney function meaning he had to endure three days of dialysis every week. It also meant a loss of brain function, as he never posted again and had to have a power of attorney for his representative to handle his affairs.

                    When last seen, he was but a pale, drooling shadow of himself. Google the painting, 'The Scream', and you will see him.

                    He departed this earth this past October with few regrets from those who knew him.

                    Dang, AC. Karma is a b. . . ., ain't she? LOL.
                    Filed August 20 341 on September 23 Report of No Distribution - September 24 Case Discharged and Closed on November 23!!!


                    • #11
                      Thanks for the response, tcreegan. Yes this creditor was listed. This creditor is the buyer of the note on the foreclosed property and is now being represented by the bank's foreclosure attorney (before the bank was sold) who sold him the note for pennies. They are the ones who have been harassing throughout the bankruptcy.
                      We now have even more indication of where this is going, as it appears that the purpose of the judgment they are trying to get will not necessarily be just against us personally, but the construction business, rather than our development company that owned 25% of the property. Apparently, since my husband stated that he would not "cooperate" by lying under oath, and since we have no money to fight with, the purpose of a default judgment is to prevent the construction company's insurer from being able to fight the false allegations that started the whole mess, and simply require them to pay up for any judgment. I think they know that if the whole story could be told in court they would lose, so they apparently intend to reduce the ability of the big insurer to deal with anything but a default judgment already made. Since we can't fight, and the insurer has their head in the sand, they get to name their judgment amount and then have the courts enforce it on the insurer. One of the dirtiest, most corrupt things I have ever seen, that has so far destroyed five businesses, seriously hurt ten more, bankrupted AT LEAST six individuals, caused the loss of more than 100 jobs, and left 3 people dead. All for no real reason except the promise of money and, possibly, a place for a mortgage fraud felon to hide money from the FBI.


                      • #12
                        Hi Jim,

                        Again, my sympathies on the rotten situation.

                        Speaking of the FBI, have you contacted them?

                        Might be an option to consider...

                        Tom in Colo
                        Ch7 filed 5/12/2010.....341 meeting 6/30/ of no distribution 8/15/2010.....discharged 10/01/2010.....closed 11/09/2010


                        • #13
                          I don't mean to sound heartless or not acknowledge all the people who have been negatively affected by this corrupt situation, at least the money can be recovered from the insurer and you and your dh will not be indebted forever to this creditor once the judgment is paid off. (Assuming the insurance company isn't in trouble and files bk to get rid of the judgment )


                          • #14
                            Tom, Thanks.We tried, but there were two problems. One, we were told this was a state matter and the FBI would not deal with it in state. Two, we have no legal documentation of criminal activity since all this was done, primarily verbally, by lawyers who can claim attorney-client privilege and one who flatly states that the judge in the court that would hear it will do whatever he says, something that he has already proven by keeping an earlier issue from even being admitted.
                            A more likely scenario would be federal regulators investigating the bank, however, the bank has been sold to another bank, with the assistance of the US Treasury. There are similar lawsuits out there, but so far the courts have upheld the rights of the bank to act without cause. Discovery in the case was estimated by one attorney at $500,000-$1,000,000, which that attorney would have taken on half contingency until two things occurred: one, the bank attorney called his partner and told him to stop his partner from taking the case, "or else," and, two, he investigated the situation and said that, while he could win the case on principle, we would never be able to collect any judgment against the bank, so he declined the case.
                            As the bank's receiver said, "You all are getting screwed. There is nothing wrong with the project, and I can't figure out why the bank attorney is doing this." He acknowledged that the allegations the partner's attorney made were false, then said he would buy the note and finish the project myself, but I will probably have to testify at some point, so I can't.


                            • #15
                              Tom, I'm not rejecting your suggestion of the FBI. Would love to see them come in to investigate. Just don't know how to get them to do it.
                              If there were some way to prove that the people who had claimed to be the "new owners" early in this scam and had hired the biglaw firm to represent them as such, I think they would be interested. If those people are who we suspect they are, the FBI just spent 11 years investigating them for mortgage fraud, and finally got convictions and sent several to jail. We think their deal to buy the note behind our backs may have been intended to hide the $25 million the FBI was looking for and never found. Since the deal never was completed when they were sentenced to federal prison, that left the partner's attorney and the bank attorney stuck trying to scramble to cover up their mess and try to find someone else to buy the note to hide their con game.


                              Unconfigured Ad Widget