Trustee interested in some of our assets - still waiting for call from auctioneer...

[tobee43]

i know it's there job and all. i know jb, they aren't there to be nice. the terrible stories one hears about some situations are just heart wrenching! you say 3% of anything over a million? doesn't sound too shabby and certainly worth the time for someone to investigate. i like that tho!

...Smart Panel Trustees know when to hold them and know when to fold them

[LadyInTheRed]

For what it's worth... the maximum amount a Chapter 7 "Panel" Trustee is only limited by what they "bill" (Application for Fees) to the Estate. The percentages listed above are "maximums" and need to be earned. A Chapter 7 "Panel" Trustee does not have the limit that is applied to the earnings of a Chapter 13 "Standing" Trustee. The Chapter 13 "Standing" Trustee can't make more than an executive level employee of the US Government which is around $132K if I'm not mistaken (give or take). The Chapter 7 "Panel" Trustee has to "earn" their money and if they work more hours (bill more hours) and incur more expenses than they can recover from the Estate... oh well! Smart Panel Trustees know when to hold them and know when to fold them.

Thanks for clearing that up, justbroke.

[justbroke]

The Trustee's job was meant to be unforgiving, cold, and unrepentant. In some cases, the Trustee's will be a little nicer, but that is not their job! They can lose their job if they are too lenient. The thing is to be consistent in all cases, regardless of the underlying reason a person is in bankruptcy. Remember, that without going through bankruptcy, you are left to the wolves -- the creditors -- where there is really no humanity. The creditors would take everything if they could.

In the end, Bankruptcy is very emotional and can be extremely depressing for many. Any successful Trustee will keep emotion out of the equation. if not, they'll just be replaced by a more methodical and mechanical Trustee. After all, we will keep reminding everyone that it's a highly "technical" and "mechanical" process. Common-sense does factor in "some times", but it is not the norm! There are Trustees here in Florida that won't even allow you to purchase non-exempt items from them! They tell you to just go to the auction and bid on the items if you really want them!

As stated, the Trustees are given an incentive because they won't make ANY MONEY if they just take the $60 in every case! Trustees are practicing attorneys and have a staff and an office. Even with 1,000 cases assigned to them in one year, that's only $60K. Hardly enough to pay for staff and an office... let alone themselves. They receive a "commission" just like the real estate agent receives commission. It's on a declining scale and not 25% of everything. it's 25% of the first $5,000 and then 10% of the next $45K. Then it drops to 5% of anything over $50K to $1,000,000. It drops to 3% for anything over $1,000,000.

So, if they spend 20 hours trying to fighting with you over your assets, they just wasted at least $3,000 (20 hours x $150/hour in legal fees). If they can recover $5K in assets, they'll make $1,250 which will cover less than 8 hours of their "expense" trying to get the assets. Trustees typically go after assets that they know they'll be able to recover (liquidate) -- think low hanging fruit. (Okay, there are some cases where the asset is just too juicy to worry about costs, so they'll go after a home that has title or promissory note/mortgage issues!)

That's the real deal.

For what it's worth... the maximum amount a Chapter 7 "Panel" Trustee is only limited by what they "bill" (Application for Fees) to the Estate. The percentages listed above are "maximums" and need to be earned. A Chapter 7 "Panel" Trustee does not have the limit that is applied to the earnings of a Chapter 13 "Standing" Trustee. The Chapter 13 "Standing" Trustee can't make more than an executive level employee of the US Government which is around $132K if I'm not mistaken (give or take). The Chapter 7 "Panel" Trustee has to "earn" their money and if they work more hours (bill more hours) and incur more expenses than they can recover from the Estate... oh well! Smart Panel Trustees know when to hold them and know when to fold them.

[webworks227]

Yes I agree there are some trustees that do their jobs very well and still manage to put a sprinkle of common sense in there decisions and dare I say a tiny itsy bitsy amount of compassion. And then there are others that like the power and the extra bonus and yes sometimes from the misery of others.

I am sure...just my opinion again, that many of us did not choose BK lightly and there are many stories and circumstances that brought us to this ultimate decision. However, in some cases it like being slapped over and over again. You lose your job, or your spouse loses their job, then the ball of debt starts rolling and you are stressed, miserable and scared. You look for relief in the system and you take the chance of being stripped of any little asset you may have. For me a 9 yr old car that gets me back and forth to work. For others sometimes more.

Yes we all need to be angry with Congress, Bush and other lawmakers, we need to speak up and try to change this to something more advantages yet fair to all involved. But it doesn't happen overnight and won't changed the present situation that many of us are in.

[tobee43]

the entire system right or wrong is simply unbalanced to me. when someone MAKES money off people's misery.

while it may be their jobs, some abuse their position. not all, but some.

[webworks227]

Hi I understand the role of the trustee's. However, you have not met mine. I do think some thinking should be involved not just follow your job to the tee. An elderly man who got into trouble because of extreme medical bills had to buy back his furniture. There seems to be something wrong there...just my opinion. As for being angry with Bush and congress, that is putting it lightly. I am part of the 99% and very active in keeping up with congress and polictics. I am not blaming all trustee's am sure there are some very fair ones out there. And then again there are some that think of themselves...this is human nature.

I have a trustee that refused any negotiation, any at all. I had a certified car appraisal he threw out. This certified appraiser had done many car appraisals for my law firm and others. He is reputable and well regarded. My trustee wanted only Car Max.

I am sorry but I disagree. We all need incentives to do our jobs but any bonus I get is not at the cost of someone elses ability to continue working. Yes I know the Trustee is not there for the debter. And yes I will continue to choose the best possible congressman I can as well as other lawmakers.

[JackBondLove]

The job of the trustee is to make sure the creditors get what they are entitled to under the law. They are not there to protect the debtor. Getting paid a commission for what they collect for distribution to the creditors is not a conflict of interest. It's an incentive to do their job.

I remember talking to the secretary of my trustee (another hard-ass) who brought up the fact that the trustee really needs to get about $5K in recoverable assets to get him the $1400 or so that is what he lays out in time, etc., so whenever he has the chance to get at assets, he goes for it! I negotiated my buyback from $7.5K to $5K and he took it!

[LadyInTheRed]

thank you for your response. The fact that trustee's can make money from your BK is a conflict of interest. They make here in florida $60.00 per case which can be as simple as 10 minutes and like me if you have just that little bit of asset they go for the throat. My 9 yr old car is my only assest and in need of repairs, it is the only thing I have to get to work. There is no subways here and very little buses. The way the 2005 law was written is in favor of the Banks still and the trustees have power over your life and a car you need to earn a living.

Personally I was shocked that my older car was worth $5,000. I am now aware that they just don't care if Car Max will give you that much then the greed to get 25% kicks in. The Bankruptcy laws were written to give you a fresh start. In this economy many of us need it. Instead they are kicking you when you are down and making money to do it. It is so wrong. Alas it is what it is. Thanks so much everyone

The job of the trustee is to make sure the creditors get what they are entitled to under the law. They are not there to protect the debtor. Getting paid a commission for what they collect for distribution to the creditors is not a conflict of interest. It's an incentive to do their job. My understanding is that there is a cap on how much a trustee can earn in a year. So, they are not getting rich going after your assets.

Just because we may find the trustee's job distasteful, doesn't mean they aren't doing a good job. The value of your assets are listed and exemptions applied on your petition. If the value of your assets exceed your exemptions, it is the trustees job to liqudate them and distribute the non-exempt proceeds to your creditors. If you have a problem with the valuation your attorney lists on the petition, that should be dealt with before you sign your petition. If the trustee has a problem with the value on the petiion, they let you and your attorney know and a value is negotiated. If you can't agree on a value, you can argue it in front of the judge. Unfortunately, the cost to fight is often more than the value of what you are fighting for.

Yes, the 2005 law was written in favor of the Banks. Your anger should be directed towards the members of congress who passed it and President Bush who signed it, not the trustees who are trying to do their jobs according to the law. Some anger towards your attorney may be justified as well if he has not at least tried to neogtiate with the trustee over the value of the car.

[webworks227]

thank you for your response. The fact that trustee's can make money from your BK is a conflict of interest. They make here in florida $60.00 per case which can be as simple as 10 minutes and like me if you have just that little bit of asset they go for the throat. My 9 yr old car is my only assest and in need of repairs, it is the only thing I have to get to work. There is no subways here and very little buses. The way the 2005 law was written is in favor of the Banks still and the trustees have power over your life and a car you need to earn a living.

Personally I was shocked that my older car was worth $5,000. I am now aware that they just don't care if Car Max will give you that much then the greed to get 25% kicks in. The Bankruptcy laws were written to give you a fresh start. In this economy many of us need it. Instead they are kicking you when you are down and making money to do it. It is so wrong. Alas it is what it is. Thanks so much everyone

[tobee43]

You have the right to challenge the Trustee, but is it worth the expense to do so. I was offered serious money (near $10K) for an 8 year old SUV... that had low miles. Believe it or not, used cars are commanding very high prices these days.

The Trustees in Florida are tough because there is usually money to be collected for the unsecured creditors. Of course, the Trustee gets to earn a commission too!

yes, jb, what's it up to now??? like 25% !!!!! i'm certain they are looking for extra Christmas money bout now.

[filed]

Webworks,
Just my opinion, but, the Carmax "appraisal" is usually a legitimate offer to buy, and as such represents a very solid liquidation value. Furthermore, Trustees generally view the Carmax appraisal as a conservative valuation on the vehicle. Basically, the Trustee knows that if Carmax has offered to pay a certain amount for the vehicle, they can simply take it and liquidate it at carmax with very little effort. Easy money is targeted aggressively. I hope they will work with you on a payment plan.

[justbroke]

You have the right to challenge the Trustee, but is it worth the expense to do so. I was offered serious money (near $10K) for an 8 year old SUV... that had low miles. Believe it or not, used cars are commanding very high prices these days.

The Trustees in Florida are tough because there is usually money to be collected for the unsecured creditors. Of course, the Trustee gets to earn a commission too!

[webworks227]

Thank you so much for your response. It appears I got a very very difficult Trustee. I asked my Lawyer earlier on after the 341 meeting to try and negotiate, the most I could get was 6 months. I asked for something in writing I was told they don't do that. Except being told that I have 6 months to pay off the $3500 there has been not further correspondance from the trustee or their office regarding a certain amount per month. My paralegal is the only one that reponds now. She said they have contacted the trustee's office over the last 4 weeks and have received no responses so I better go ahead and said a payment. I am doing that tomorrow.

Since everything is no, he won't negotiate any further and there is nothing in writing except the email my lawyer got about his decision, give up the car or pay the $3500, nothing about a certain amount per month. I am going to send what I can and try to increase the amount so that I meet the 6 month dead line.

I have tried to follow protocal which is to have my law office communicate with the Trustee and his office. When I send the check this week I could write a letter but I will first ask the paraglegal if this is wise. This guy is a very difficult guy to deal with and I certainly do not want to get on his bad side. It appears neither does my lawyer and therefore has not done much to work on my behalf to even try to negotiate further.

Thank you for your kind response. Florida does not give you very much in the way of exceptions and we are talking about a 9 yr old car in need of repairs but he refused to even consider that. I was told that if the car can be sold at auction or to car max for 5,000 that is all they care about they care little about repairs. He wouldn't even accept the certified car appraisal my lawyer suggested I get and pay for but instead wanted a Car Max appraisal and that is were the problem came in. Car Max did a 10 min. appraisal. They fact that I have very low milage became the issue. No repairs were taken into consideration as it was with the certified car appraisal.

I don't even know if we have the right to contest the trustee's decision??? Would it even be worth it, and I don't have money for more legal fees so I am just stuck.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write.

[justbroke]

Always "work" with the Trustee! It is okay to ask them questions and ask for an installment (payment) plan! By not getting on their bad side, I mean to say that you need to respond to them, even if the answer is that you don't have all the money right now. Most of the Trustees are willing to work with you.

Yes, in Florida the exemptions are miniscule when you are using, claiming or receiving the benefit of the Constitutional "unlimited" homestead exemption. That leaves you with very very little to work with. Even though your attorney stated that the Trustee might not be interested, the attorney would have done you a favor by re-enforcing that the Trustee could still claw at the equity.

I usually don't suggest contacting the Trustee without going through your attorney, but you may be well served by calling and asking if you can do it in 2 payments over 2 or so months. Again, most Trustees will work with you.

[webworks227]

Thanks for your reply. I used the homestead exception so no wild card. My lawyer was confident that with so little equity in the car that they probably would let it go. He was wrong. Now I am stuck. I did speak to another lawyer that said I was within my rights to ask for something in writing from the Trustee's office now I am scared based on your reply. I can't give them the full amount which would be 600.00 a month I am going to try and send a smaller amount to show good faith...any thoughts on this???? Thank you