Confused about credit cards

[ksgirl38]

Oh, and whoever mentioned that an airline ticket could be considered an asset would be incorrect. Just in case you were wondering.

[LadyInTheRed]

Well, I didn't think it was as big of a deal as everyone was making it out to be.

As already stated, charging something you know you won't pay off is fraud. That is what it sounded like you were planning to do in your original post. We do not advocate fraud on BKforum.com or help people figure out how to get away with fraud. Your attorney may think it is not a big deal, but that doesn't mean the answers you received here were incorrect.

My family celebrates Christmas at my brother's house which requires me to buy an airline ticket. This is going to require me to use a credit card.

I'm just not seeing any other options on how to handle this.

How about explaining to your family members that you can't afford to buy a ticket and asking them to chip in and buy a ticket intstead of buying you gifts? Or, stay home this year.

Please rethink your spending priorities. Regardless of any fraud issues, you are considering filing BK and still spending money you don't have. If you don't change these habits and learn to distinguish between needs and wants, BK will not help you. You need to learn to live without relying on credit. You are not "required" to charge airline tickets to spend Christmas with your family. People spend Christmas away from their families all the time because they can't afford to travel. They survive and so would you.

Oh, and whoever mentioned that an airline ticket could be considered an asset would be incorrect. Just in case you were wondering.

Just because an attorney said so, doesn't make it true. A trustee might not agree. Your attorney would be far from the first to get something wrong. It probably depends on whether the ticket can be transferred or refunded.

You should realize that most members of this board are not attorneys and are only sharing their own experiences and knowledge they have learned by reading this board and other sources. Nobody should ever use the information they receive here without independantly confirming its accuracy, preferably by consulting an attorney like you have done.

[ValleYum]

Well, I didn't think it was as big of a deal as everyone was making it out to be. I had no idea the airlines would take Paypal. That's good to know. Thanks.

A big deal? Typically not for small amounts. Typically not for necessities like groceries and gas. Likely not for a $300 plane ticket - but you just never know. Some people have had issues with charging close to filing and been hit with creditors objecting to the discharge of those charges. Some attorneys WILL NOT file until there is 90 days 'distance' from your last charge. It all differs and remember the experiences others share here are just that - their experiences.

I did want to tell you that I made the charges I mentioned BEFORE we talked to an attorney in October - I had already scheduled the autopays for the cc payments so I went on and let them go through in October. I forgot to mention that in my post above.

We filed pretty quickly after consulting attorneys - our BK was one of those 1 paycheck away from disaster deals - and we missed that paycheck. I could juggle all the bills as long as hubby's paychecks were a certain dollar amount and his VA Ch33 housing check was on time - but we had an abysmal payday and the VA didn't send the Ch33 housing check due to a clerical error... then when Chase said no to letting us defer 1 mortgage payment... Boom! The juggling disaster ensued.

Hang in there!

[ksgirl38]

As already stated, charging something you know you won't pay off is fraud. That is what it sounded like you were planning to do in your original post. We do not advocate fraud on BKforum.com or help people figure out how to get away with fraud. Your attorney may think it is not a big deal, but that doesn't mean the answers you received here were incorrect.





How about explaining to your family members that you can't afford to buy a ticket and asking them to chip in and buy a ticket intstead of buying you gifts? Or, stay home this year.

Please rethink your spending priorities. Regardless of any fraud issues, you are considering filing BK and still spending money you don't have. If you don't change these habits and learn to distinguish between needs and wants, BK will not help you. You need to learn to live without relying on credit. You are not "required" to charge airline tickets to spend Christmas with your family. People spend Christmas away from their families all the time because they can't afford to travel. They survive and so would you.



Just because an attorney said so, doesn't make it true. A trustee might not agree. Your attorney would be far from the first to get something wrong. It probably depends on whether the ticket can be transferred or refunded.

You should realize that most members of this board are not attorneys and are only sharing their own experiences and knowledge they have learned by reading this board and other sources. Nobody should ever use the information they receive here without independantly confirming its accuracy, preferably by consulting an attorney like you have done.

No reason to get so testy.

I had every intention of paying the credit card company for the airline ticket, just wasn't sure if there were other options that might be better. I found one.

I have no intention of telling anyone I'm filing bankruptcy so explaining why I suddenly can't make Christmas isn't really an option. Plus I skipped one year and it put me into a huge depression. It's 2000 miles away so driving isn't an option and I don't have family here around that time of year. It's bad enough that I only see my nieces once a year as it is.

Most of the cheap flights are non-refundable and non-transferable and since the trustee can't use it him/herself it's not going to do anyone else much good.

I have no problem living without credit. I've done it before. If it weren't for the obligation I feel to pay the bills to keep current I wouldn't be charging in the first place.

Charging an airline ticket is more for the security that if something happens it's easier to get your money back and I'm not completely sure, but I think quite a few credit cards offer travel insurance that help protect your purchase. I know one of mine does. I guess it's just more of a piece of mind thing for me.

[ksgirl38]

A big deal? Typically not for small amounts. Typically not for necessities like groceries and gas. Likely not for a $300 plane ticket - but you just never know. Some people have had issues with charging close to filing and been hit with creditors objecting to the discharge of those charges. Some attorneys WILL NOT file until there is 90 days 'distance' from your last charge. It all differs and remember the experiences others share here are just that - their experiences.

I did want to tell you that I made the charges I mentioned BEFORE we talked to an attorney in October - I had already scheduled the autopays for the cc payments so I went on and let them go through in October. I forgot to mention that in my post above.

We filed pretty quickly after consulting attorneys - our BK was one of those 1 paycheck away from disaster deals - and we missed that paycheck. I could juggle all the bills as long as hubby's paychecks were a certain dollar amount and his VA Ch33 housing check was on time - but we had an abysmal payday and the VA didn't send the Ch33 housing check due to a clerical error... then when Chase said no to letting us defer 1 mortgage payment... Boom! The juggling disaster ensued.

Hang in there!

Now that you mention it, I have one reoccurring charge on my credit card, to Netflix. (At least I think that's the only one.) I was planning on cancelling that anyway after I watched and returned Breaking Dawn, but what do you do with other reoccurring charges. I know that I have several bills and other things set up to automatically bill every month and there was some talk with one of the attorneys about timing the filing right before a payday when your account is the smallest. Do you cancel the reoccurring payments to time them better with the filing? I can't even think right now what all might be tied to my credit cards. I think I might actually have another reoccurring charge from Amazon as well now that I think of it.

[ValleYum]

Now that you mention it, I have one reoccurring charge on my credit card, to Netflix. (At least I think that's the only one.) I was planning on cancelling that anyway after I watched and returned Breaking Dawn, but what do you do with other reoccurring charges. I know that I have several bills and other things set up to automatically bill every month and there was some talk with one of the attorneys about timing the filing right before a payday when your account is the smallest. Do you cancel the reoccurring payments to time them better with the filing? I can't even think right now what all might be tied to my credit cards. I think I might actually have another reoccurring charge from Amazon as well now that I think of it.

LOL I just talked to you about checking account $$ in your 7 vs. 13 thread! Go there! hehe

[ksgirl38]

LOL I just talked to you about checking account $$ in your 7 vs. 13 thread! Go there! hehe

I saw it. Thanks. I guess I'll be pouring over my credit card statements now trying to remember what re-occurring payments I have on them.

[Drazil65]

I had every intention of paying the credit card company for the airline ticket, just wasn't sure if there were other options that might be better. I found one.



You cannot pick and choose what purchase gets your payment when you use a card where there is already a balance, so how are you going to designate your payment to only pay for the ticket? You can't so if you plan to pay anyway why not just purchase it with cash then? You have issues that go way beyond your debt, its your attitude towards what you think you deserve in your situation. You are not the only one that lives far from home and has to make sacrifices because the decision to live where we are living is ours. You obviously cannot not live without charging on your cards, if you could then you would not have an issue paying cash for the ticket.

[Tater]

[QUOTE=Drazil65;570332]I had every intention of paying the credit card company for the airline ticket, just wasn't sure if there were other options that might be better. I found one.



I agree with Drazil here. If you can afford the $300 to pay back the credit card, then just use cash to pay for the ticket but I would wait. Have you asked any of the attorneys in your area what the trustees are like? We found out we have one that's fine and one that gets a little cranky about things. What people are trying to tell you is that you have to be careful. Are willing to really look at the reasons at why you have to file bk or are you just trying to get rid of this debt to incur new debt? Bankruptcy does provide a fresh start but you don 't want to abuse the system. For us, this was a hard, emotional, and scary thing to decide. We have changed our spending habits due to job loss but we also had to face the reasons that led us to bankruptcy in the first place.

It's a hard life lesson and if you are willing, you can learn a lot about yourself. There are other ways to buy an airline ticket that just by using a credit card. It seems you are already setting yourself up to fail again. When Christmas comes, are you going to use the logic, I have to run up my credit card to buy fancy gifts? People have given you good advice but you have to be willing to listen. For our family, this is going to be a big financial relief. Yet, we don't want to go down the same road again. I would stop using credit cards now and really look at why you are $30,000 in credit card debt.

[Drazil65]

You have posted several posts here that have made it clear you intend to file including that you are already planning for when you can purchase a house after bankruptcy. You have thought it out to that point and have talked with attorneys in the Trustees eyes that creates a timeline for the thought process.

[tobee43]

Oh, and whoever mentioned that an airline ticket could be considered an asset would be incorrect. Just in case you were wondering.
Just because an attorney said so, doesn't make it true. A trustee might not agree. Your attorney would be far from the first to get something wrong. It probably depends on whether the ticket can be transferred or refunded.

You should realize that most members of this board are not attorneys and are only sharing their own experiences and knowledge they have learned by reading this board and other sources. Nobody should ever use the information they receive here without independantly confirming its accuracy, preferably by consulting an attorney like you have done.

personally i know of at least two cases that airplane tickets that were purchased prior to bk and were found on that person's statement were in fact considered assets. in both cases the trustees had the tickets redeemed (most likely for a fraction of the costs). so it does happen in the courts. i have also seen people purchase them and have to issue with them during the bk process. it's a flip of a coin.

however, if you trust your atty, you have chosen to listen to what guidence they give you, as pointed out here, there are a tremendous amounts of situations and scenarios people on this forum have gone through and have experienced. also as pointed out, it doesn't mean that is what your trustee will do.

mainly, what for most so important, is don't take any changes if you feel they can come back an bite you hard. it's simply not worth it. the truth never changes and is the easiest of all to deal with, since it never changes.

[ksgirl38]

I had every intention of paying the credit card company for the airline ticket, just wasn't sure if there were other options that might be better. I found one.



You cannot pick and choose what purchase gets your payment when you use a card where there is already a balance, so how are you going to designate your payment to only pay for the ticket? You can't so if you plan to pay anyway why not just purchase it with cash then? You have issues that go way beyond your debt, its your attitude towards what you think you deserve in your situation. You are not the only one that lives far from home and has to make sacrifices because the decision to live where we are living is ours. You obviously cannot not live without charging on your cards, if you could then you would not have an issue paying cash for the ticket.

Well if I'm not making any other charges on the card and pay the credit card for the amount of the ticket after I make the purchase then it's pretty obvious what it's for. Not that I'm planning on doing that, but was considering it as an option until someone gave me a better idea.

Last time I checked you can't stuff a $100 bill into a laptop to pay.

I tried to negotiate with my credit card company. They refused. I can't say I didn't try and I have been steadily paying the balance for over 6 years on time and over the minimum payments. Unfortunately I was downsized twice within a 2 year period. I'm single so I don't have the second income. It wasn't my choice to use my credit cards to survive, but I really didn't have any other option at the time. I always thought I'd catch up at some point, but I'm starting to wonder if BK is a better option when I see half of the payment I made was to interest alone. I have no family nearby that could have helped.

[ksgirl38]

[QUOTE=Tater;570333]

I had every intention of paying the credit card company for the airline ticket, just wasn't sure if there were other options that might be better. I found one.



I agree with Drazil here. If you can afford the $300 to pay back the credit card, then just use cash to pay for the ticket but I would wait. Have you asked any of the attorneys in your area what the trustees are like? We found out we have one that's fine and one that gets a little cranky about things. What people are trying to tell you is that you have to be careful. Are willing to really look at the reasons at why you have to file bk or are you just trying to get rid of this debt to incur new debt? Bankruptcy does provide a fresh start but you don 't want to abuse the system. For us, this was a hard, emotional, and scary thing to decide. We have changed our spending habits due to job loss but we also had to face the reasons that led us to bankruptcy in the first place.

It's a hard life lesson and if you are willing, you can learn a lot about yourself. There are other ways to buy an airline ticket that just by using a credit card. It seems you are already setting yourself up to fail again. When Christmas comes, are you going to use the logic, I have to run up my credit card to buy fancy gifts? People have given you good advice but you have to be willing to listen. For our family, this is going to be a big financial relief. Yet, we don't want to go down the same road again. I would stop using credit cards now and really look at why you are $30,000 in credit card debt.

[QUOTE=Tater;570333]

I had every intention of paying the credit card company for the airline ticket, just wasn't sure if there were other options that might be better. I found one.



I agree with Drazil here. If you can afford the $300 to pay back the credit card, then just use cash to pay for the ticket but I would wait. Have you asked any of the attorneys in your area what the trustees are like? We found out we have one that's fine and one that gets a little cranky about things. What people are trying to tell you is that you have to be careful. Are willing to really look at the reasons at why you have to file bk or are you just trying to get rid of this debt to incur new debt? Bankruptcy does provide a fresh start but you don 't want to abuse the system. For us, this was a hard, emotional, and scary thing to decide. We have changed our spending habits due to job loss but we also had to face the reasons that led us to bankruptcy in the first place.

It's a hard life lesson and if you are willing, you can learn a lot about yourself. There are other ways to buy an airline ticket that just by using a credit card. It seems you are already setting yourself up to fail again. When Christmas comes, are you going to use the logic, I have to run up my credit card to buy fancy gifts? People have given you good advice but you have to be willing to listen. For our family, this is going to be a big financial relief. Yet, we don't want to go down the same road again. I would stop using credit cards now and really look at why you are $30,000 in credit card debt.

All the attorneys I've spoken to have indicated it's not a concern.

I'm actually not all that concerned about the BK. I have to say that I find that most of the people in this forum seem to be overreacting, but then I don't know all their details. Mine is a pretty simple situation. Just credit card debt and I continue to pay on my car and student loans. I'm actually looking at it as more relief in the fact that I won't have that huge debt hanging over my head and the sleepless nights anymore. Obviously this isn't the road I wanted to go down, but sometimes life just throws you things you have to deal with.

How do you pay for an airline ticket with cash? Seriously, I want to know. I always buy mine online so I don't know how you would do that. How do you stuff a $100 bill into the laptop to pay for it. I'd really like to know. Not that it matters, but I have mentioned several times now that I've found a better option.

I'm not trying to come across as a total B**** here, but I'm getting really tired of the reprimands. No one here knows my situation. No one has seen my bills, no one knows what my salary is and no one knows what other financial obligations I have. Obviously it's hard to get all the information out in a forum, but the negative criticisms aren't appreciated and I'm getting a little tired of the attacks. My credit score is currently 764, or 786 depending on which credit report you go off of, what's yours? I've never made a late payment and am current on everything. I've never had anything repossessed and I'm probably more frugal and better at budgeting than most of the people I've seen on here, but somehow I'm the one labeled as a credit card abuser. I take offense to that. Unfortunately due to some past unemployment and a current job that doesn't pay as much as I wish it did I just can't get ahead on the payments. Rather than wait until my credit score drops and bill collectors start calling I'm taking the proactive approach now and handling it in the best way I can.

I started my Christmas budget in January. Did you? I have cash set aside already for that and it's figured into my monthly budget.

[ksgirl38]

You have posted several posts here that have made it clear you intend to file including that you are already planning for when you can purchase a house after bankruptcy. You have thought it out to that point and have talked with attorneys in the Trustees eyes that creates a timeline for the thought process.

Actually I'm not completely sold on the idea yet. I kind of falter back and forth. Maybe 60/40 at the moment. I'm still in the gathering information stage, but the attorney I saw yesterday was impressed that I knew much much more than any of his other clients ever had. I'm still researching.

[ksgirl38]

personally i know of at least two cases that airplane tickets that were purchased prior to bk and were found on that person's statement were in fact considered assets. in both cases the trustees had the tickets redeemed (most likely for a fraction of the costs). so it does happen in the courts. i have also seen people purchase them and have to issue with them during the bk process. it's a flip of a coin.

however, if you trust your atty, you have chosen to listen to what guidence they give you, as pointed out here, there are a tremendous amounts of situations and scenarios people on this forum have gone through and have experienced. also as pointed out, it doesn't mean that is what your trustee will do.

mainly, what for most so important, is don't take any changes if you feel they can come back an bite you hard. it's simply not worth it. the truth never changes and is the easiest of all to deal with, since it never changes.

Could it vary by state? Until recently I just didn't know of any other option. I've only heard of one other person that's mentioned how they dealt with this situation.