can't record phone convo's

[justbroke]

Yes, it always matters where the parties are located. Be very careful when there are more than two parties on the call as well!

[NwodGniog]

So, I did some more reading about this issue, and as it turns out, even if you live in a one-party state, the debt collector might be calling from a two-party state. The safest course of action is to always begin the conversation with a verbal statement that you are recording the phone call and get that verbal warning recorded as well. If you make it clear that you are recording them, then if they do not wish to be recorded they can say so or hang up. If they say they do not want to be recorded, then I would ask them if they were recording me right now. You know they record every phone call routinely. But they always say up front that they are recording. I think as long as we do the same thing as they do, we probably won't have any issues. The last point I would make on this would be the matter of timing. The verbal warning needs to be heard by an actual person to be valid. For example, I still use Google Voice and often times when a debt collector would call me, there was a brief gap between when I answered the phone and when a real live debt collector came on the line to speak to me. Technically, I could just immediately hit 4 on my phone and Google Voice would say "This call is now being recorded" before the real live debt collector ever got online and heard the warning. So, I think it is best to hold off on pressing 4 if you're using Google Voice, or hold off on saying the call is being recorded until a live person comes on the phone. That way you will have that warning recorded and their response to that warning recorded.


" Can I record a call from a debt collector?


March 17, 2021 By Scott Allums
The instinct to record a call from a debt collector is a good one.

Recordings of telephone conversations with debt collectors have in many cases provided a sound basis for a Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) lawsuit.

However, when a client or potential client asks a bankruptcy attorney in Alabama whether he or she should record such calls, the answer is—it depends.

The answer depends not only on the location of the person recording the call but also the location of the person placing the call.

Each state in the U.S. has its own so-called wiretapping laws.

These laws aim to protect the sanctity of electronic communications in a variety of mediums, not least telephonic communications.

Thus, the laws of each state will differ with regard to the question of whether a phone-call can legally be recorded and, if it can, whether or not each party to the phone conversation needs to be aware of and consent to the recording.

States which require that both parties be aware of the recording are known as Two-Party States.

Other states, such as Alabama, only require that one party to the call be aware of and consent to the recording.

These are known as One-Party States.

It is rare that you will know from which state a debt collector is phoning.

Imagine that you are on a telephone call with your neighbor, who is in the process of confessing to the theft of another neighbor’s car.

Out of loyalty to the other neighbor, you might want to record that.

In Alabama, you can do that without telling your thieving neighbor that you are doing so.

However, if you’re calling your neighbor to plan a secret rendezvous at a romantic bed and breakfast, your wife, listening in from around the corner, might also want to record that phone-call.

It would be illegal for her to do that. She is not a party to the call and cannot consent to the recording.

What if your neighbor, in order to escape the shame of your romantic entanglement, has moved to California—a Two-Party State?

You could not then record the call yourself without the knowledge and consent of your neighbor, the new Californian.

As to the debt collectors, what if they are calling from a Two-Party State but are spoofing an Alabama phone-number?

In other words, whether or not it is legal to record a phone-call can be a very muddy question. In legal terms, this is what is known as a Choice of Law question.

A Choice of Law question is the legal analysis of which state’s law applies to a given question (or state versus Federal law).

When a client or potential asks our bankruptcy attorneys whether or not a debt collector’s phone call should be recorded, we do not necessarily know all of the facts necessary to complete that Choice of Law analysis.

The best course of action is to do what the debt collectors themselves do.

As soon as you answer the phone, the debt collectors disclose that they are calling in an effort to collect the debt and that the call is being recorded. At that point, your continued participation in any conversation that follows constitutes consent to the recording.

What’s good for the gander is good for the goose.

Before you say anything to the debt collector, the safest course of action when you want to record the call is to let the caller know that you are recording the call and that, in continuing, they are likewise consenting to the recording.

Will that affect the way that the debt collector speaks to you? Probably not.

Is that individual debt collector going to believe that you’re really recording, or care? Probably not.

Do recording of debt collectors illegally threatening to have people arrested for owing money or claiming that they work for “the court” when they do not make their way into Federal courtrooms in Fair Debt Collection Practices Act lawsuits?

You bet they do.

Regardless, for your own protection, full disclosure up front of the recording is the safest course of action for you.

The criminal penalties for violation of state or Federal wiretapping laws are far more severe than Fair Debt Collection Practice Act violations."

[NwodGniog]

Most States are one-party consent, meaning so long as one person knows they are being recorded then it's fair. Always check with your specific State laws. I live in one of only about 15 States that requires all parties to agree to be recorded.

This is why calling most business they have the disclaimer that they record all calls and if you don't want to be recorded, then to hang up.

Funny thing is that some aggressive bill collectors will hang up if you ask them to consent to being recorded.

That has been my experience as well. If I told them I was recording the phone call, they would either say something ridiculous like "I don't consent to being recorded so that is illegal" or they would often just hang up on me. If they say they don't consent, I say, "you called me in Arizona, a one party state, so hang up if you don't want to be recorded." They don't want to be recorded because they know they are going to be saying all sorts of things which might violate the FDCPA. I live in Arizona which is a one party recording state, so I don't have to tell them anyways, but I routinely tell them on the phone or in writing that they are going to be recorded. So they really can't say later that they had no idea I was recorded their call, if it ever came up in court.

[justbroke]

Only partially correct, in some states you can record any and all conversations with impunity; in others you cannot.

Most States are one-party consent, meaning so long as one person knows they are being recorded then it's fair. Always check with your specific State laws. I live in one of only about 15 States that requires all parties to agree to be recorded.

This is why calling most business they have the disclaimer that they record all calls and if you don't want to be recorded, then to hang up.

Funny thing is that some aggressive bill collectors will hang up if you ask them to consent to being recorded.

[shipo]

You cant record conversations but you can take good notes...

Only partially correct, in some states you can record any and all conversations with impunity; in others you cannot.

[bornfree2]

You cant record conversations but you can take good notes, write up an affidavit/Declaration, and get it notarized. This is a stronger form of evidence than 'he said , she said'.

Not only that but I like to tell people : ' just so i heard you clearly, you said xyz correct? Is there anything else you want to add to the affidavit/Declaration i am writing up? It will be helpful to refresh you memory in your potential future deposition." That shuts up morons real quick OR it triggers them to say more stupid stuff.

Affidavit/Declaration are easy to write. The downside is the cost of notarizing. But consider it cost of affidavit I guess.

The court system needs a recognizable blockchain notary system. Then we can upload all kinds of timestamp facts and utterances (like property inventory lists in bankruptcy)

[joshuagraham]

It depends on the state. When I was approaching my Chapter 7, my legal residence was in a state in which it was legal to record a conversation and not tell the other party. In a similar way that the debt collectors would give out their spiel about how they record everything, I would state that in my state, it is completely legal for me to record the conversation and not even tell it to the other party. That got a lot of them to hang up.

[justbroke]

...if he kept those behaviours up i would make sure that him and his family are homeless

I think that's flipping the table on them. However neither he nor his family would be responsible. The employer bears the responsibility for an FDCPA or unfair and deceptive practices claim. These aggressive collection companies know not to cross a certain line. Despite that knowledge, they'll walk right up to the line and jump over it knowing that a few fines are not going to hurt them in the long run ($1,000 per lawsuit -- not violation -- may be worth it?).

The easier (best) place to deal with collection companies is in bankruptcy! I dealt with one that was dunning me after filing and I won over $2,400 as a settlement on a motion for sanctions. If I had done that in federal district court, it would have only been $1,000, and the procedures and filing fees make it more difficult to even want to start a suit. Most people go to a consumer attorney for these types of issues (outside bankruptcy).

Yes. Bankruptcy is the nuclear option. But don't threaten to use it if you're not going to file very soon. If you tell certain creditors that you are going to file bankruptcy to wipe out your balance, they'll just "race to the courthouse steps" to get a judgment lien before you file. That judgment lien may be difficult to remove (given certain conditions) and they would have won. Not just won the balance, but all the additional costs to have file that judgment lien and then defended it in the bankruptcy court.

It's better yelling at them when you already filed. Yelling at them when you haven't filed could be playing with fire.

[yourfired]

I love it when they say stupid things like "the Sheriff is coming to arrest you." I answer... "I'm having dinner at his mom's house, with him, on Sunday. Have them stop by around 5PM. She makes a wonderful casserole."

id'e tell em i'll meet you at the poilce station and you can serve me there. that makes em fall out of there chair real fast and hang up. i told one to suck my your not getting shit outta me am filing a no asset chapter 7 so all judements will be disolved. he just about fell out his seat. as i told him walking away from 100k of debt is a good business trans action. i could hear his jaw drop. then i told him to spend your money trying to collect. the i said i was suing for him calling me before 8 am along with if he kept those behaviours up i would make sure that him and his family are homeless

[yourfired]

called the courts and the clerk said there was nothing i think there screwing with me. i was never served papers or nothing. my lawyers taking care of it

[flashoflight]

I had 8 lawsuits against me and phone calls every 15 minutes. I never answer my phone from numbers not on my contact list, so I didn't refer any of them to my attorney until I filed. I needed to delay my chapter 13 for a short while but I did not want any to put a lien on my house or garnish my wages. One put a lien on my house and I had to pay extra to remove it during the early weeks of the bankruptcy. Go on a beans and rice budget to raise the BK lawyer money faster, press the button to launch the nuke, and move on. Your phone will thank you with the cessation of phone calls and the ridiculous threats of the sheriff coming into your home to confiscate your used underwear.

[justbroke]

yourfired sometimes a summary judgment could be entered against you, but the summary judgment was improperly served. There are different ways to do service of a lawsuit especially if the person can't be located. Those other ways could be posting or they could actually list it in the newspaper for some period of time (by notice).

And yes, they could be sprouting off what could happen if there was a judgment entered against you. I don't know but threats are not allowed under the federal FDCPA and some of the unfair and deceptive practices laws for your State. If you're going to file for bankruptcy soon, no need to worry. But I'd ask my BK attorney if they can "handle" this debt collector. Usually a Bk attorney will inform their client to direct all future debt collection calls to the attorney's office.

[yourfired]

i have no idea about it that's what the CC co told me. i have not been avoiding anyone they all know that i plan to nuke em in a BK. i just retained a good BK lawyer and am on a payment plan. i have to call the courts tomorrow and see if there was a judgment entered on me. no one else in my house got any paperwork to give me also. i am thinking it's the CC co sprouting off to scare me into paying???

[justbroke]

yourfired have you actually filed bankruptcy? If not, a Writ of Execution, issued to the Sheriff after a Judgment has been entered against you, is not a violation. The question is, was there a lawsuit? Were you notified? Did you avoid service? How was service achieved? Was it a default judgment? When was the judgment entered?

You need an attorney if you have not filed bankruptcy. Collection on a judgment can always lead to garnishment and levy actions. The first thing to do is to validate the judgment, then figure out if service was improper. You would likely need an attorney to get to the bottom of this.

[yourfired]

I love it when they say stupid things like "the Sheriff is coming to arrest you." I answer... "I'm having dinner at his mom's house, with him, on Sunday. Have them stop by around 5PM. She makes a wonderful casserole."

i have a CC company saying they got won a judgment against me and they won News to me i never knew about it) will be calling the courts tomorrow!!! now there telling me they can put some form in to get the sheriff to walk through my house and take inventory of what i have to pay off the debt. i will be calling my lawyer tomorrow that's a violation. this crap is becoming a fulltime job. thing will get interesting once the payday lender starts calling. i think back in 07 i had a collector threaten that they were sending the sheriff out to arrest me. so like a smart ass i went down stairs and looked for the sheriff LOL. the collector waited on the phone with me as he so called was supossed to show up!!! 10 minutes went by i told the collector give him another 5 mins and he will be there to arrest you and put you in jail . after 5 minutes went by i told the collector that he might want to call the sheriff's dept again and to see where he is. he was like they will be there to arrest you he refused to call em. then i turned around and told that nitwit that he was in violation and that i was going to sue his sorry ass. and i recorded the whole convo. i never heard anyone swallow there pride so fast and hang up LMAO