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2 computers in chapter 7

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    #16
    Scarlett1234 The two computers are not worth worrying about. Like JB says, quicksale/yard sale value is what you use on most items. Even the new computer is unlikely to be above $625 once the refund period expires. Apple products can be an exception, but I personally wouldn't buy a used Mac for more than $625 no matter what.

    The things you need to worry about are vehicles with no lien (including 20+ year old junkers), guns, art, non-costume jewelry, right to receive money from a lawsuit/personal injury/workers comp, right to receive inheritance from someone who is very sick right now, security deposit, bank accounts, brokerage accounts, crypto wallets, specialized tools for the trade, and real estate including partial ownership.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by flashoflight View Post
      Scarlett1234 The two computers are not worth worrying about. Like JB says, quicksale/yard sale value is what you use on most items. Even the new computer is unlikely to be above $625 once the refund period expires. Apple products can be an exception, but I personally wouldn't buy a used Mac for more than $625 no matter what.

      The things you need to worry about are vehicles with no lien (including 20+ year old junkers), guns, art, non-costume jewelry, right to receive money from a lawsuit/personal injury/workers comp, right to receive inheritance from someone who is very sick right now, security deposit, bank accounts, brokerage accounts, crypto wallets, specialized tools for the trade, and real estate including partial ownership.
      Thank you for your detailed response. Except computer needed for school and programming, he doesn't have anything you listed to worry about, I was also worried if he purchases a second computer now, it would be seen as wasteful spending, but he needs a second one. And it isn't an Apple brand, not as expensive as Mac. I probably misunderstood the laws in the first place after I read only one computer allowed somewhere.
      As far as the security deposit, if he would not get that back until years later after the rental lease ends , does that still make the security deposit a bankruptcy assets ? Does he has to exempt security deposit same way he needs to exempt cash ?

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by justbroke View Post
        That is how I read the exemption. However, and this may depend on your specific District, most people use yard-sale or garage-sale pricing and not fair market value when it comes to personal property (other than vehicles). I used eBay for some things and guessed what I could get at a yard-sale for others.

        The only computers that I know that keep a good portion of their value after 1, 2, 3 and seen 4 years are the Apple computer products. I have always sold my old iMacs for 50% of what I purchased them for... even after 4 years! (Sold an 2012 iMac for $800 in 2017. Unheard of when it usually comes to computers.) A late 2015 iMac is selling for about $800-900 on eBay today.

        Most computers, and especially laptops, may be worth $100 after a year so long as they are not Apple products.
        That's good to know, the yard sale value for computers would be even lower, none of the computers would be apple or MAC, he normally buys Dell middle-tier products. If he were to list items for yard sale value versus fair market value, would that possibly trigger issues? Do you by chance know how likely a trustee would come to your house and examine if your item has been undervalued on the form by yourself?

        Comment


          #19
          A Trustee is not going to bat an eyelash over listing a 2018 Dell Laptop as being worth $200. I see Dell Lattitude (consumer grade) computers on eBay for $65.00 right now.

          Unless you're in Florida, I haven't heard of Trustee ever going to someones home to look around. Now, I will mention Florida because it is or was unique. Several Chapter 7 Trustees in the Middle District of Florida started to send an third-party appraiser to debtor homes. This was at the peak of the 2008-2014 housing crisis. There was a lot of litigation around whether debtors got to "claim" the $4,000 unused homestead exemption even if their home was underwater.

          Since Florida has a poultry $1,000 wildcard for all personal property (other than the $1,000 for a car), the Chapter 7 (Florida) Trustees were likely correct that most people had more than $1,000 of furnishings, computers, clothing, and other household goods. People obviously mis-characterized everything and lumped many things into a single category and claims that it was only worth $1,000.

          For me, on my Chapter 7 forms, I listed anything with a value over $250 separately. That showed that I wasn't inflating anything to get under the value. Besides, I did have the $4,000 unused homestead exemption so it wasn't as if I was saying that all my worldly possessions were only worth $1,000.

          For districts outside the infamous Florida Middle, it would not be routine for a Chapter 7 Trustee to send an appraiser to the home unless they really thought you had more than you have scheduled. For example, a person in a 4,000 square foot home claims that they only have $1,000 in furniture. That's a red flag right there. It could be true, but it's likely to be absurd that someone with a 4,000 square foot home only has $1,000 in furnishings, clothing, televisions, computers, dishes, silverware, mops, brooms, vacuums, chairs, couches, tables, beds, bedding and other miscellaneous personal property.
          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by justbroke View Post
            A Trustee is not going to bat an eyelash over listing a 2018 Dell Laptop as being worth $200. I see Dell Lattitude (consumer grade) computers on eBay for $65.00 right now.

            Unless you're in Florida, I haven't heard of Trustee ever going to someones home to look around. Now, I will mention Florida because it is or was unique. Several Chapter 7 Trustees in the Middle District of Florida started to send an third-party appraiser to debtor homes. This was at the peak of the 2008-2014 housing crisis. There was a lot of litigation around whether debtors got to "claim" the $4,000 unused homestead exemption even if their home was underwater.

            Since Florida has a poultry $1,000 wildcard for all personal property (other than the $1,000 for a car), the Chapter 7 (Florida) Trustees were likely correct that most people had more than $1,000 of furnishings, computers, clothing, and other household goods. People obviously mis-characterized everything and lumped many things into a single category and claims that it was only worth $1,000.

            For me, on my Chapter 7 forms, I listed anything with a value of over $250 separately. That showed that I wasn't inflating anything to get under the value. Besides, I did have the $4,000 unused homestead exemption so it wasn't as if I was saying that all my worldly possessions were only worth $1,000.

            For districts outside the infamous Florida Middle, it would not be routine for a Chapter 7 Trustee to send an appraiser to the home unless they really thought you had more than you have scheduled. For example, a person in a 4,000 square foot home claims that they only have $1,000 in furniture. That's a red flag right there. It could be true, but it's likely to be absurd that someone with a 4,000 square foot home only has $1,000 in furnishings, clothing, televisions, computers, dishes, silverware, mops, brooms, vacuums, chairs, couches, tables, beds, bedding and other miscellaneous personal property.
            Thanks, we are not in FL. We did rent a spacious house for a good deal, not paying much more than others pay for smaller apartments. Most of the household goods, furniture and half of his clothing was bought with my money and could be reflected from my bank statements over years. He owns very little because he didn't buy stuff, do you think this would raise a flag and trigger them to send someone to our home? I am not filing, there is no joint debt, it was his own mistake leading this. Would they question when coming to our home why I own almost everything in the house, even though that's the truth, I have devoted my income for years to buy the furniture and stuff we need for both of us.
            Bankruptcy seems so complex that's why I was thinking about debt settlement.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Scarlett1234 View Post

              Thanks, we are not in FL. We did rent a spacious house for a good deal, not paying much more than others pay for smaller apartments. Most of the household goods, furniture and half of his clothing was bought with my money and could be reflected from my bank statements over years. He owns very little because he didn't buy stuff, do you think this would raise a flag and trigger them to send someone to our home? I am not filing, there is no joint debt, it was his own mistake leading this. Would they question when coming to our home why I own almost everything in the house, even though that's the truth, I have devoted my income for years to buy the furniture and stuff we need for both of us.
              Bankruptcy seems so complex that's why I was thinking about debt settlement.
              The good news is you're overthinking it. If the stuff is yours, that's easy enough to state and to prove if necessary (it most likely will not be). In reality, debt settlement can become FAAAR more complex when collection agencies and law suits and such start piling up.
              Latent car nut.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by shipo View Post

                The good news is you're overthinking it. If the stuff is yours, that's easy enough to state and to prove if necessary (it most likely will not be). In reality, debt settlement can become FAAAR more complex when collection agencies and law suits and such start piling up.
                Thanks , I have always been a overthinker .

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by shipo View Post

                  The good news is you're overthinking it. If the stuff is yours, that's easy enough to state and to prove if necessary (it most likely will not be). In reality, debt settlement can become FAAAR more complex when collection agencies and lawsuits and such start piling up.
                  In your personal experience or others you know of, will chapter 7 record hinder job opportunities in the tech industry a lot? He will be looking for new jobs in the future, and I am very concerned he will be turned down by many companies. If he goes for government jobs that cant discriminate against the chapter 7 record, I am also concerned he may not be able to get a secret clearance again because of the chapter 7 record, he had secret clearance at once but it expired. Back then he didn't have a bankruptcy record.
                  This is one of the reasons I was looking into debt settlement to ensure his career aspect won't be possibly jeopardized by avoiding bankruptcy.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                    A Trustee is not going to bat an eyelash over listing a 2018 Dell Laptop as being worth $200. I see Dell Lattitude (consumer grade) computers on eBay for $65.00 right now.

                    Unless you're in Florida, I haven't heard of Trustee ever going to someones home to look around. Now, I will mention Florida because it is or was unique. Several Chapter 7 Trustees in the Middle District of Florida started to send an third-party appraiser to debtor homes. This was at the peak of the 2008-2014 housing crisis. There was a lot of litigation around whether debtors got to "claim" the $4,000 unused homestead exemption even if their home was underwater.

                    Since Florida has a poultry $1,000 wildcard for all personal property (other than the $1,000 for a car), the Chapter 7 (Florida) Trustees were likely correct that most people had more than $1,000 of furnishings, computers, clothing, and other household goods. People obviously mis-characterized everything and lumped many things into a single category and claims that it was only worth $1,000.

                    For me, on my Chapter 7 forms, I listed anything with a value over $250 separately. That showed that I wasn't inflating anything to get under the value. Besides, I did have the $4,000 unused homestead exemption so it wasn't as if I was saying that all my worldly possessions were only worth $1,000.

                    For districts outside the infamous Florida Middle, it would not be routine for a Chapter 7 Trustee to send an appraiser to the home unless they really thought you had more than you have scheduled. For example, a person in a 4,000 square foot home claims that they only have $1,000 in furniture. That's a red flag right there. It could be true, but it's likely to be absurd that someone with a 4,000 square foot home only has $1,000 in furnishings, clothing, televisions, computers, dishes, silverware, mops, brooms, vacuums, chairs, couches, tables, beds, bedding and other miscellaneous personal property.
                    In your personal experience or others you know of, will chapter 7 record hinder job opportunities in the tech industry a lot? He will be looking for new jobs in the future, and I am very concerned he will be turned down by many companies. If he goes for government jobs that cant discriminate against the chapter 7 record, I am also concerned he may not be able to get a secret clearance again because of the chapter 7 record, he had secret clearance at once but it expired. Back then he didn't have a bankruptcy record.
                    This is one of the reasons I was looking into debt settlement to ensure his career aspect won't be possibly jeopardized by avoiding bankruptcy.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by flashoflight View Post
                      Scarlett1234 The two computers are not worth worrying about. Like JB says, quicksale/yard sale value is what you use on most items. Even the new computer is unlikely to be above $625 once the refund period expires. Apple products can be an exception, but I personally wouldn't buy a used Mac for more than $625 no matter what.

                      The things you need to worry about are vehicles with no lien (including 20+ year old junkers), guns, art, non-costume jewelry, right to receive money from a lawsuit/personal injury/workers comp, right to receive inheritance from someone who is very sick right now, security deposit, bank accounts, brokerage accounts, crypto wallets, specialized tools for the trade, and real estate including partial ownership.
                      In your personal experience or others you know of, will chapter 7 record hinder job opportunities in the tech industry a lot? He will be looking for new jobs in the future, and I am very concerned he will be turned down by many companies. If he goes for government jobs that cant discriminate against the chapter 7 record, I am also concerned he may not be able to get a secret clearance again because of the chapter 7 record, he had secret clearance at once but it expired. Back then he didn't have a bankruptcy record.
                      This is one of the reasons I was looking into debt settlement to ensure his career aspect won't be possibly jeopardized by avoiding bankruptcy.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Scarlett1234 View Post
                        In your personal experience or others you know of, will chapter 7 record hinder job opportunities in the tech industry a lot?
                        No. None. Most employment background checks are looking only at criminal records. Unless you're seeking employment in financial services which require more stringent controls, I don't see it affecting a former debtor.

                        However, if you're working for the federal government, on federal contracts, or sensitive State I/T systems, this could require a broader background check which includes a security level. Even in those cases, many people that have filed a (single) Chapter 7 or a (single) Chapter 13, within the last 8-10 years of the background investigation, see little trouble. The governmental background checks are looking at finances as well. The government seems to believe that the way an individual handles their finances is an excellent predictor of integrity.

                        So long as a person has received a discharge and hasn't repeated those past mistakes, the person would likely pass even the public trust requirement. A confirmed Chapter 13 usually mitigates any concerns as well for public trust. But, repeated bankruptcies -- within 8 to 10 years -- will likely paint a picture that the debtor cannot handle their expenses and are a potential security threat. Additionally, the inability to deal with the debt by making payment arrangements, can also lead to a denial of clearance.

                        That has been my experience. If I am any example, I continue to hold all my clearances even after periodic review.
                        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                          No. None. Most employment background checks are looking only at criminal records. Unless you're seeking employment in financial services which require more stringent controls, I don't see it affecting a former debtor.

                          However, if you're working for the federal government, on federal contracts, or sensitive State I/T systems, this could require a broader background check which includes a security level. Even in those cases, many people that have filed a (single) Chapter 7 or a (single) Chapter 13, within the last 8-10 years of the background investigation, see little trouble. The governmental background checks are looking at finances as well. The government seems to believe that the way an individual handles their finances is an excellent predictor of integrity.

                          So long as a person has received a discharge and hasn't repeated those past mistakes, the person would likely pass even the public trust requirement. A confirmed Chapter 13 usually mitigates any concerns as well for public trust. But, repeated bankruptcies -- within 8 to 10 years -- will likely paint a picture that the debtor cannot handle their expenses and are a potential security threat. Additionally, the inability to deal with the debt by making payment arrangements, can also lead to a denial of clearance.

                          That has been my experience. If I am any example, I continue to hold all my clearances even after periodic review.
                          Thank you for educating me on this . I see you mentioned about public trust instead of secret clearance ,I am more interested if the secret clearance would be hard to get with single chapter 7 record .May I ask when you said you continue to hold all your clearance ,you meant secret clearance or public trust ?

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Scarlett1234 View Post
                            Thank you for educating me on this . I see you mentioned about public trust instead of secret clearance ,I am more interested if the secret clearance would be hard to get with single chapter 7 record .May I ask when you said you continue to hold all your clearance ,you meant secret clearance or public trust ?
                            My TS/SCI is expired. My Public Trust is active at Level 6.

                            For security clearances, a completed Chapter 7 may not be an issue but they will ask you about everything they see on your credit report. I can't say whether or not SCI can be obtained/maintained/reinstated with a Chapter 7 on your record.

                            I do know that a Chapter 7 is much better than a credit report full of collections, charge-offs, foreclosures and repossessions! It shows that you took responsibility and attempted to resolve the debt. When my PT was renewed, they went through every single account on my credit report that had anything other than "Paid As Agreed." This meant that each and every item labeled "Included In Bankruptcy" needed an explanation.

                            Multiple bankruptcies will almost certainly kill a Federal background check. Tax debt is a killer too, unless you are in a payment arrangement or at least a confirmed Chapter 13.

                            Also, just anecdotal, a re-investigation (periodic renewal) is usually treated than a new application. So if you're already holding the security clearance / public trust then that could help. However, even with a renewal, they will not want to see the items that I mentioned above. Again, for SCI junk it may be difficult to renew or obtain such a security level... I just have no experience with that.
                            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                              My TS/SCI is expired. My Public Trust is active at Level 6.

                              For security clearances, a completed Chapter 7 may not be an issue but they will ask you about everything they see on your credit report. I can't say whether or not SCI can be obtained/maintained/reinstated with a Chapter 7 on your record.

                              I do know that a Chapter 7 is much better than a credit report full of collections, charge-offs, foreclosures and repossessions! It shows that you took responsibility and attempted to resolve the debt. When my PT was renewed, they went through every single account on my credit report that had anything other than "Paid As Agreed." This meant that each and every item labeled "Included In Bankruptcy" needed an explanation.

                              Multiple bankruptcies will almost certainly kill a Federal background check. Tax debt is a killer too, unless you are in a payment arrangement or at least a confirmed Chapter 13.

                              Also, just anecdotal, a re-investigation (periodic renewal) is usually treated than a new application. So if you're already holding the security clearance / public trust then that could help. However, even with a renewal, they will not want to see the items that I mentioned above. Again, for SCI junk it may be difficult to renew or obtain such a security level... I just have no experience with that.
                              Thanks , it seems like the chance to getting another secret clearance is still there . His has expired ,and he wont be able to renew it until he get another job requires it .

                              Comment

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