Big no no....automobile transfers 2 months before filing -- now what?

[DSIG]

Prior to meeting with a bk attorney and not knowing what I know now -- I transferred two automobile titles early June. Both are listed in the schedule at my attorney's guidance. I am filing ch 13, married but not joint.

Car 1 -- I do not possess this car nor have I been driving it for two years. My father and law has been driving it but I have been paying for insurance. I never liked this arrangement but since my husband financed a new car for me 2 years ago I thought the least I could do is pay the insurance on the old car (which I wanted to actually sell at the time). Two months ago, I transferred the title to my father and law and took the car off of my auto policy.

Car 2 -- I was listed as a co-owner on a car my husband paid for by himself at the auction. My husband added me to the title because he thought my insurance policy would not insure the car without me appearing as the owner of the vehicle (which was a wrong assumption). -- I have insurance through USAA. I dont even drive this car and never considered it my property from the day my husband bought it. I had my name removed from the title at the same time I transferred ownership of the other vehicle

Deep down I was scared of judgements so I felt as if I had to protect the cars. This is before I was serious about filing bk. My husband did not know about my debt till Feb and I dont think its fair for his father or for him to have these vehicles surrendered in a judgement.

So, what do I tell the trustee when he asks? Can he and will he reverse the transfers? Or throw my case out?

[lrprn]

Prior to meeting with a bk attorney and not knowing what I know now -- I transferred two automobile titles early June. Both are listed in the schedule at my attorney's guidance. ... So, what do I tell the trustee when he asks? Can he and will he reverse the transfers? Or throw my case out?

Let's start by asking what your lawyer told you about this situation. Did he tell you if the cars are at risk or not? You said your lawyer listed the two cars on your forms. What did he tell you about what the trustee might do about each car?

[DSIG]

Let's start by asking what your lawyer told you about this situation. You said he listed the two cars on your forms. What else did he tell you about hwat to expect regarding both cars?

he asked me if the the transfers occurred before I consulted with him and I said yes. He was considering not listing them if there were liens on the vehicles but that is not the case. We dont owe on the vehicles. The titles are free and clear.

The attorney did not advise as to what to expect. Actually, he is pissed at me because I did not disclose this info until after he sent me the draft bk papers to review and then I kept adding stuff. he thought we were ready to go final and I added things I was afraid to disclose. He is also not approachable. He has a strong background as a defense trial attorney and is well connected with the bk community so I trust he has a trick or two up his sleeve

[JRScott]

Okay yeah you should of told him upfront.

Have you already filed?

Assuming you have.

Then what is likely to happen if you cannot exempt your share in them is that the Trustee will undo what you did in Feb. He will then ask for you to pay him back your interest in the vehicles or he'll auction them. If the cars are worth less than a thousand he may surrender his claim on them.

If you'd told the lawyer before hand he could have delayed filing, that's still possible if you haven't filed. You'd want to put a year between them though and not sure you can wait that long.

[justbroke]

Deep down I was scared of judgements so I felt as if I had to protect the cars. This is before I was serious about filing bk. My husband did not know about my debt till Feb and I dont think its fair for his father or for him to have these vehicles surrendered in a judgement.

This is exactly what Trustees are looking for. They consider these fraudulent transfers as you attempt to hinder creditors from being able to recover value from any judgment lien.

So, what do I tell the trustee when he asks? Can he and will he reverse the transfers? Or throw my case out?

Since you haven't filed yet, your attorney will work out the details on what you will need to do. Your admission that you were actually trying to hide property from creditors is disturbing. The Trustee won't just throw your case out, trust me. The Trustee is in the money-making business, and undoing transfers, is what they love to do. Now if those 2 vehicles have very little value, this may be nothing and/or you'll be able to "buy" the equity from the Trustee.

Again, work with your attorney.

[tinfoilhat]

He should have asked upfront actually. Makes me wonder what else he might forget to ask you.

[eddiep]

he asked me if the the transfers occurred before I consulted with him and I said yes. He was considering not listing them if there were liens on the vehicles but that is not the case. We dont owe on the vehicles. The titles are free and clear.

The attorney did not advise as to what to expect. Actually, he is pissed at me because I did not disclose this info until after he sent me the draft bk papers to review and then I kept adding stuff. he thought we were ready to go final and I added things I was afraid to disclose. He is also not approachable. He has a strong background as a defense trial attorney and is well connected with the bk community so I trust he has a trick or two up his sleeve

I don't understand, why would you withhold information from your attorney? He is the ONLY one on your side in this process, if he is not approachable you should have hired a different attorney and I wouldn't count on him to pull any strings to help you on this one. If I were an attorney I would not put my neck out there to protect a client who was not honest with me.

[justbroke]

He should have asked upfront actually. Makes me wonder what else he might forget to ask you.

True, true. Attorney should have asked, exactly what the Trustee asks. Have you transferred any property for less than fair market value within the last year. Pretty simple.

[lrprn]

Attorney should have asked, exactly what the Trustee asks. Have you transferred any property for less than fair market value within the last year. Pretty simple.

Hang on, folks. For all we know, the lawyer may have asked DSIG this very question at some point, but DSIG may have not felt comfortable answering truthfully at that time or didn't think what she did was a transfer so said no. Could be why the lawyer is unhappy now. Or maybe he didn't ever ask. We really don't know.

Let's not jump to conclusions about what either of them did or didn't do in this unfortunate situation. People - even lawyers - are human. They make mistakes. When in glass houses.....you know the rest. I sure have no first rock to throw. How about the rest of you?

[justbroke]

Let's not jump to conclusions about what either of them did or didn't do in this unfortunate situation.

My statement was only that the lawyer "should" have asked a particular question. I was in no way making a statement that it was never asked, or asked in a different manner. I have come to no conclusion on what was asked, not asked, answered, or not answered.

It's an unfortunate circumstance, and is a learning opportunity for everyone.

[lrprn]

It's an unfortunate circumstance, and is a learning opportunity for everyone.

Agreed

[DSIG]

I have not filed yet. Should I do damage control on one of the transfers and have my husband add my name back to the title as a co-owner, just as it was before?

The other transfer I will explain -- My father-in-law really does drive that car and he does not know I am filing for bk. I saved a little under 100 a month in auto insurance just by making him pay for it. This is the car with the least bb value. Its a toyota rav4 with at least 200,000 miles on it when I gave it to father-in-law 2 years ago. It also has some sloppy body work which was pointed out when I had it appraised a few years back.

Regarding what my lawyer asked ...no he did not ask if I did any transfers. He asked if I have used my cards recently. That's the extend of our initial consultation. He is an assh*le sometimes but three people referred him to us, 2 of which were attorneys. So, I am going to keep him.

[StartingOver08]

Don't do anything without first consulting with your attorney about what to do. Don't add your name back to the title, don't do anything....

Get a clear direction from your attorney to your specific question. Your answer may very well be not to file for the next X months up to a year. Time to have a consultation with your attorney about everything - disclose all to him. He is your advocate - no one else in Bk is....

[jb300]

I agree with what the others have told you. They are far more knowledgable than I am on this.

I just want to add that I wouldn't care how many people had told me about an attorney, if I wasn't comfortable with him I wouldn't be using him. I almost made this mistake and it would have been disaster for me. I had gotten names from people and one of them was a real a##. His plan for my BK and what is actually happening are two entirely different things. He was a very well known BK attorney in the area but I didn't like him and on the advise of the well knowing people on this forum, at the last minute I searched for one more attorney and it was the best decision I have made.

Good luck to you.

[AMISLANDER]

Changing title to vehicles within one year prior to declaring bankruptcy is a major NO NO. It looks very bad & your bankruptcy could be dropped due to the nature of this mistake.

I know, I had a lien on my vehicle (paid off vehicle) due to a bill owed a parent. It was filed over a year prior to the bankruptcy issue. Trustee wanted the vehicle, lien was valid however. I ended up paying to keep vehicle with the IRS tax that the trustee kept.

Due to it being an SUV & gas prices up at the time, I should've given it up...however...hindsight whatever...

Correct this problem immediately; you need to have a good rapport with your attorney as well, otherwise it makes no sense to deal with someone who isn't working for you.