Question I may charge $5000 on a credit card for vaneers six months prior to filing, bad idea?

[nicole1969]

My dentist is trying to get the veneers approved through my insurance company in which case the vaneers would be considered a mandatory medical need versus cosmetic only. (I have a damaged front tooth and could get by with maybe one or two veneers but the dentist is trying to get the insurance company to help pay for all six.) Even with insurance, the veneers will cost me between 5 and 6K.

Since it's six months out, does it mean I don't have to worry at all about this raising a red flag for Chapter 7? If so, would it matter if they are deemed for a medical need or only cosmetic? Would the trustee dig that deep to see if it is a luxury versus a need? NOTE: we are current on all credit card payments at the moment.

I am in Oregon if that matters. Thank you.

[newbie2]

Ok, I'm going to be blunt. You know you are filing for bankruptcy. You are planning on filing for bankruptcy. Don't put anything else on credit. These types of scenarios are one of the reasons why the BK changes happened on 2005.

Others I am sure will chime in and say "go ahead, but wait XXX amount of days." I won't be one of them. It's just plain wrong in my book.

[ccsjoe]

Nicole, I understand the situation. My wife needs about 6K of dental work done. We just filed BK. Our solution: We're getting her dental insurance through Costco (thank you California for this one at least) and figuring out with the dentist a manageable payment schedule for the out of pocket percentages. In addition, we're throwing in her dental through her job, which only covers up to 1500/year, and her FSA. So there are ways to do it other than charging it when you know you're going to be filing. Technically, you probably would be ok as newbie2 pointed out above, but honestly, I'd look to exhaust the alternatives first.

[tyson24]

My opinion is, I wouldn't do it. But I am nervous to the point that I won't even charge coffee on my debit card for fear the trustee will ask me why I can buy expensive coffee and not pay my bills.

Not an Attorney though.

[catleg]

It would work out better for you if you can think of some expense for necessities that your currently pay cash for, put that on the card, and accumulate cash instead. (and of course don't just blow the cash). One large purchase like that might cause you problems, not necessarily, but why cause trouble for yourself.

[Logan]

So you intend on making these charges then filing for BK? Is that what I understand?

[JoePlumber]

I'm sure you can get your insurance to fix that one tooth, its kinda like instead of charging that Timex, i'm going to charge that Rolex, then file BK in 6 months... Seriously, since your insurance won't do the full job so your smile looks fabulous, you want your credit card company to eat that which isn't part of the debt so far.... your court trustee will see this and your risking your case getting dismissed cause of a poor choice in judgment... Do you gamble? Trustee's go to the dentist too...

[tobee43]

i agree with NOT doing this...unless........i re-read but do not see you filing day of bankruptcy?

personally i have been through this......my entire face had to be built...they had to removed bunches of teeth to get into my face bones and replace them with cadraver bones...(i boast i'm quite internation now!)...anyway....i had PERFECT teeth...and here's the kicker...while my insurance paid up to 2 million...(we had to put out over 200k since we hit our ins limit that year)...the insurance REFUSED to put back the teeth!!!!

that was going to cost 20k alone....so here's how we handled it.....we knew we were in trouble...also because first i lost my job due to 2 years of what i do not really want to get into serious illness crap...then the other one of us loses their over 130k year job....

how we handled it was....i began to pay the doctors prior to filing and the work being completed...even tho i would NOT consider replacing teeth a luxury...(right the insurance company was great about removing perfect perfect teeth to get into my face bones.... but NOT put them back).

anyway....this is one of the reasons we held off filing. i needed to get all this medical terrible stuff out of the way first. veneers are considered cosmentic....but then again the insurance co also that putting BACK what the doctors pulled out cosmetic.

i would do one of two things...if you haven't filed yet....hold off another 6 months and have it done. or....not get it done and just work with the dentist after the bk to see if they will work out payments.

my facial surgeon worked with us....we made monthly payments...it was hard and tons of money...like i said 20k..

good luck!

[Pandora]

If you are "current on all credit cards at the moment" as you state...and you know you are going to be filing for BK in the next few months.... then why not STOP paying on your credit cards (you're just throwing that $ away in all honesty) and use that money to make payments for your dental work? Most dentists will take payment plans if they are within reason -and most credit card minimums are pretty standard at about $100 a month. You stated "cardS" meaning more than one - add up what it is you pay min. to each in a month...and figure out what it would take to save up for the dental.

IMHO - you're going to get nailed for putting it on a card for one - and 2. veneers are not a "requirement" for dental, you could just as easily get a cap or just 1 veneer if its a front tooth. If your Trustee is a stickler - you just may end up getting hit with abuse or fraud. I wouldnt do it...

[tobee43]

If you are "current on all credit cards at the moment" as you state...and you know you are going to be filing for BK in the next few months.... then why not STOP paying on your credit cards (you're just throwing that $ away in all honesty) and use that money to make payments for your dental work? Most dentists will take payment plans if they are within reason -and most credit card minimums are pretty standard at about $100 a month. You stated "cardS" meaning more than one - add up what it is you pay min. to each in a month...and figure out what it would take to save up for the dental.

IMHO - you're going to get nailed for putting it on a card for one - and 2. veneers are not a "requirement" for dental, you could just as easily get a cap or just 1 veneer if its a front tooth. If your Trustee is a stickler - you just may end up getting hit with abuse or fraud. I wouldnt do it...

better idea yet!! stop paying the cc's and put your money where your mouth is...(i JUST had to do it..sorry!)

i did not have veneer work done and i agree since it's considered "cosmetic" it could be questionable...(i had NO veneer work done at all...implants..) which also could have been considered cosmetic i suppose...so i think pandora's idea is the way to go!

[scorpion35]

i think that would be fraud in the eyes of the BK law

[nicole1969]

Thank you very much everyone! All comments have been really helpful. We have just started thinking about BK after we had a vountary credit counseling session last week through our EAP program. Their recommendation was that we file based on our circumstances. It is all new to me so I am researching a lot online (already have contacted an attorney.)

I guess I don't understand the point about not paying on your credit cards prior to the filing. For the people that said to not pay on the credit card and use the cash, this would mean that we would have the cash to pay on the credit cards - so can't the trustee see this? From what I am seeing online, I thought that you are supposed to have receipts and show what all of your expenses were prior to the filing? Won't the trustee consider it fraud if they see you had the $ to make the cc payment but opted not to do so (like you opted to save the $ or spend it elsewhere)? That's the part I am confused about.

Thanks for any insight into this.

[chrisdfw]

You're more likely to run into problems if you charge it, I don't think the trustee will go after you for using the money to pay for dental work in lieu of making payments. The net result is the same, but it really does matter. Just stop paying if you will be bankrupt, its money thrown down a hole so to speak. Also stop charging anything too, anything charged after you know you will be going bankrupt is technically fraudulent since you don't intend to repay. Just use the payment money for the dental work, you shouldn't have a problem that way and you won't build up a big pile of cash that you have to exempt, since your teeth are automatically exempt

[cupcake]

If you know for certain that you will be filing for BK, it is my understanding that you are now technically already considered bankrupt and any charges you make on your CCs at this point could be deemed fraudulent and presumed abuse. Based on what you've said here you intend to charge the dental work now and have it discharged later through BK. If so, that's fraud.

It seems to be that the prudent thing to do would be to get the *necessary* dental work done and save the rest until you can afford it without having to put it on a CC.

[chriselle]

The insurance will not pay for the veneers. This is patient responsibility because it's an upgrade to the basic service. there's a cheaper alternative, it will be their point. It is different if it's a true medical emergency. The cc card might file an AP and it might not be discharged, or maybe settle when they do.