How will Obama v. Democrats v. Republican Battle Play Out?

[helpme2010]

I am still confused as to what the hell is going on with the 99ers and my unemployment extension

[tobee43]

tobee, it's funny, I used to be rich, especially for my age. I bought my house at a young age as well. I was like Alex P. Keeton on Family Ties. I never had sympathy for unemployed or homeless people, as I had no grasp. It's like the walking a mile in someones shoes before judging them.

I had a life transformation a decade ago after losing a job and went in and out of jobs after that. I have changed the way I think about homeless and welfare and unemployed people for the last decade. I also volunteered for many charity functions during that period. I know when I get back on my feet I will do some charity volunteer work to help the poor in the future as well.

it really is humbling for many to go through this. we are just listening to cnn again and it's saying unemployment has risen in 21 states and as soon as this bill is finally signed it will at least extend the benefits for the 13 weeks...

o...here we go the vp of the United States is going to speak now..i have to listen...

[helpme2010]

well...finally whatmoney....great post..LOL!!!

i agree helpme...it's so unfortunate, but it's a reality and i do believe it will get even worse than now.

tobee, it's funny, I used to be rich, especially for my age. I bought my house at a young age as well. I was like Alex P. Keeton on Family Ties. I never had sympathy for unemployed or homeless people, as I had no grasp. It's like the walking a mile in someones shoes before judging them.

I had a life transformation a decade ago after losing a job and went in and out of jobs after that. I have changed the way I think about homeless and welfare and unemployed people for the last decade. I also volunteered for many charity functions during that period. I know when I get back on my feet I will do some charity volunteer work to help the poor in the future as well.

[tobee43]

Whatmoney, excellent list you brought up, thanks for the additional education. I can easily see how someone can become homeless, because I have gotten so close without the job. Thankfully unemployment extensions have been a tremendous help during the recession. I can also imagine some people come out of the war with illness and are left behind by society. Plus a host of other reasons that nobody should judge.

I think sometimes we as a society judge people and even blame people for needing help, rather than just showing some basic compassion.

well...finally whatmoney....great post..LOL!!!

i agree helpme...it's so unfortunate, but it's a reality and i do believe it will get even worse than now.

[helpme2010]

Whatmoney, excellent list you brought up, thanks for the additional education. I can easily see how someone can become homeless, because I have gotten so close without the job. Thankfully unemployment extensions have been a tremendous help during the recession. I can also imagine some people come out of the war with illness and are left behind by society. Plus a host of other reasons that nobody should judge.

I think sometimes we as a society judge people and even blame people for needing help, rather than just showing some basic compassion.

[WhatMoney]

I understand the poor and homeless that got where they were due to drugs or other problems, but our society has gotten so far out of control, we are one step away from being a third world country where all you have is the incredibly rich and the incredibly poor.

I hope you realize the "other problems" for the homeless far outweigh the drug excuse. Some homeless may use drugs after they are homeless, but that is seldom the root cause. Here is a list of the Causes of Homelessness:

Factors Contributing to Homelessness

* Automobile related - Broken down car, no insurance, tickets, etc.

* Decline in Public Assistance - Current TANF benefits and food stamps combined are below the poverty level in every state; in fact, the median TANF benefit for a family of three is approximately one-third of the poverty level. Thus, contrary to popular opinion, welfare does not provide relief from poverty.

* Divorce - Divorce often leaves one of the spouses homeless. Most often it’s the father, but sometimes it’s the mother and children or everyone involved.

* Domestic Violence - Battered women who live in poverty are often forced to choose between abusive relationships and homelessness.

* Drug and Alcohol related problems - Rates of alcohol and drug abuse are disproportionately high among the homeless population.

* Illness - For families and individuals struggling to pay the rent, a serious illness or disability can start a downward spiral into homelessness, beginning with a lost job, depletion of savings to pay for care, and eventual eviction.

* Job loss - No income to pay rent.

* Lack of affordable housing- The lack of affordable housing has lead to high rent burdens (rents which absorb a high proportion of income), overcrowding, and substandard housing.

* Lack of child support - In families where child support is ordered but not paid, the decrease in income can lead to an inability to pay rent, utilities, or both.

* Low wages - Declining wages have put housing out of reach for many workers: in every state, more than the minimum wage is required to afford a one- or two-bedroom apartment at Fair Market Rent.

* Mental Illness - Approximately 20-25% of the single adult homeless population suffer from some form of severe and persistent mental illness.

* Natural Disaster / Fire - Situations where due to chance a fire, tornado, flood or hurricane renders housing inhabitable.

* Physical Disabilities - Disabled individuals may be unable to work or find appropriate employment. For those receiving SSI, they often struggle to obtain and maintain stable housing.

* Post Traumatic Stress Disorder - This disorder is common with veterans and those that have been in violent situations. It can make it difficult to have a stable life.

* Poverty - Being poor means being an illness, an accident, or a paycheck away from living on the streets.

* Roommates - When one or more roommates falls through with their end of the bargain, they can be a reason for others becoming homeless.

* Severe Depression - Can make it impossible for an individual to maintain a stable life.

* Tragedy - It is surprising how many people just quit functioning because their families died or were killed...sometimes recently...other times 15 years ago...other times 30 years ago.

http://homelessresourcenetwork.org/causes.html

Another comment you've made - "that most people on welfare have never worked and do not work now" is another false belief. 85% of all welfare recipients have held previous jobs. And 60% of welfare recipients are working, the working poor. And UE benefits beyond the normal 26 weeks for those not working is also, by definition, welfare, since that money is not from a State insurance fund, but from general tax revenues, just like all other forms of federal government welfare. Food Stamps (SNAP) are also welfare. Many working families qualify for and receive food stamps.

[helpme2010]

If I were wealthy, I guess I would be upset seeing my money being taken away by the government for taxes or half the inheritance going to the government. I understand we are not a socialistic country, but I think there has to be somewhat of a more fairer distribution of wealth when we have a serious wealth distribution problem that is of biblical proportions. It makes me think of what happens when I see Beverly Hills multi-millionaires next door to the skid row homeless, or homeless in Santa Monica walking next to the richest of rich. I understand the poor and homeless that got where they were due to drugs or other problems, but our society has gotten so far out of control, we are one step away from being a third world country where all you have is the incredibly rich and the incredibly poor.

[msm859]

But, here is the thing, why have a Death Tax, why can't someone build up wealth and pass it along to their family. AGAIN, NO ONE IS ANSWERING (or is avoiding answering because there is not good answer), is why have a death tax in the first place.

Have you ever played monopoly? The game ends and is no longer any fun after someone owns everything. Without an inheritance tax that is EXACTLY what will happen. When a 1000 (or pick your small number) people own everything that will not be good for society. Why is income tax any more fair than inheritance tax. What if we could eliminate the income tax and only have inheritance tax. That way you could spend all the money you earn and anything else is then taxed -- think how stimulative that would be to the economy? The reality is that the government needs x dollars to run (even after you have cut everything you say should be cut). If you don't have an inheritance tax you will have to collect that revenue someplace else. Do you raise everyone's "income" tax? Again why is that more fair? What is the benefit to society to give a few super rich families huge tax cuts at the expense of everyone else? Is it better to protect more Paris Hilton's while some families will then either pay more taxes or worse cut more programs so we can not afford student aid, bridge repair etc.?
Iit is a misconception that this money has already been "taxed" before. Most of it has not. If my rich uncle bought 10K of Apple stock 20 years ago and he dies this year (were we have 0 inheritance tax) I just made @$3,000,000 tax free. I get a stepped up basis. I can sell it tomorrow ZERO taxes on that $2,990,000 profit. How is that fair to the person who works 40 hours a week scraping by and will never make that much in his whole life and pays substantial taxes?

Finally from someone else: "The growing disposition to tax more and more heavily large estates left at death is a cheering indication of the growth of a salutary change in public opinion. The State of Pennsylvania now takes -- subject to some exceptions -- one tenth of the property left by its citizens. The budget presented in the British Parliament the other day proposes to increase the death duties; and, most significant of all, the new tax is to be a graduated one. Of all forms of taxation this seems the wisest. Men who continue hoarding great sums all their lives, the proper use of which for public ends would work good to the community from which it chiefly came, should be made to feel that the community, in the form of the State, cannot thus be deprived of its proper share. By taxing estates heavily at death the State marks its condemnation of the selfish millionaire's unworthy life."
"Under its sway we shall have an ideal State, in which the surplus wealth of the few will become, in the best sense, the property of the
many, because administered for the common good; and this wealth, passing through the hands of the few, can be made a much more potent force for the elevation of our race than if distributed in small sums to the people themselves. Even the poorest can be made to see this,
and to agree that great sums gathered by some of their fellow-citizens and spent for public purposes, from which the masses reap the principal benefit, are more valuable to them than if scattered among themselves in trifling amounts through the course of many years."
Andrew Carnegie.

[shark66]

Having lived - and worked - in an European high-tax environment for a number of years, in both very small and very large businesses, I will say that tax increase of any kind - especially in rough economic waters - is a very bad idea.

Taxes are demoralizing and kill growth, in the long run, slowly but surely. We were watching over our sales growth like hawks as the end of the year was nearing so we wouldn't cross the magic line allowing HM to take two thirds of our net gain...times might have changed, they might have learned something in the process, but many more holy cows are yet to be slaughtered in Europe for it to regain any prospect of economic recovery...

The biggest one of them being the whole EU/euro concept...which needs to be gone yesterday...

My $0.02 only...

[WhatMoney]

Also, while our country sits here and plays political games with both parties refusing to get anything done right now, we borrow more money from China, while China continues to grow and kick our A$$es all over the map. And many of our citizens continue to fall into poverty.

China of course is polluting the daylites out of their population and doesn't care about the rights of its citizens and doesn't offer democracy. But why can't our government simply get together and do what will work to help us get jobs and stay the economic leader of the world???

Why do you think it is simple for the government to "get jobs and stay the economic leader of the world?" The jobs are gone forever because it's cheaper to produce products in other countries. As long as capitalism and corporate profits rule the country, the jobs will continue to move to whatever country allows the maximum profit for corporate America.

You are blaming the government for allowing free capitalism. The weaker the government the more jobs will be lost. If you want an example of a Libertarian weak federal government nirvana, I suggest you check out Somalia.

[helpme2010]

frogger you forgot the BIG "I".......

Also, while our country sits here and plays political games with both parties refusing to get anything done right now, we borrow more money from China, while China continues to grow and kick our A$$es all over the map. And many of our citizens continue to fall into poverty.

China of course is polluting the daylites out of their population and doesn't care about the rights of its citizens and doesn't offer democracy. But why can't our government simply get together and do what will work to help us get jobs and stay the economic leader of the world???

[tobee43]

frogger you forgot the BIG "I".......

[frogger]

Oh stop the BS..

I totally agree, however I'm not referring to the back and forth BS that is on this thread. Everyone has their own opinions, either on one side of the fence or the other.

If you have a "D" by your name, we pretty much know your opinion.

If you have a "R" by your name, we pretty much know your opinion.

And therein lies the rub..... people are doing exactly what the politicians want. Infighting, blame placing, my side is right, my president was different, my congressman is special.

As long as they can keep the status quo going, nothing is going to change. There's not a hill of beans difference between the "R" or the "D".

THEY ARE ALL TO BLAME, along with us for tolerating it.

Since we can't say "off with their heads", let's just make all of them unemployeed.

Nothing is going to change until the people of this country wake up, and I don't see that happening until the people start getting hungry.

The ma$$e$ are a$$e$.....

[tobee43]

How will Obama v. Democrats v. Republican Battle Play Out?

isn't that what the essence of the question posed here....how will it play out?....it won't....taxes, health reform, unemployment, employment....denfense spending...no defense spending...on and on we go. key issues we all would like to see "resolve" or in least some type of movment, in one respect or another.


while we can all continue to ask the question about raises taxes....how about raises government revenues in some areas....

how about some creative thinking....maybe a bit of foresight thrown into to the pot of stew and get this country up and running.

there will always be birth, taxes and death.....we should behold that the single one in that group we may have any control to help direct is taxes...however, how??? you vote for someone you thinks will push the country into the right direction, only to find we are now so deep in the hole we may never see sunlight ....or at least, i may not again in my lifetime.

[HHM]

I am going to repeat once again that 98% of small businesses do not net $250,000/yr, and would not have their taxes raised if the bush tax cuts were only extended to those netting less than $250,000.

The inheritance tax break for the ultra-rich is even more damaging to the economy and the deficit:



How does sending an extra $25 Billion to only 6,600 already wealthy heirs help the economy? That is an average of an extra $3.8 Million each to only 6,600 heirs. Is that the best way to distribute government revenue to stimulate the economy?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101213/pl_nm/us_usa_taxes

But its a slippery slope. What is an additional $25 billion, then next year, its only an additional $5 billion, then next year it is $10 billion, where does it stop? You are arguing the narrow point of the Bush Tax cuts, but the democrats don't want to stop there, and remember, the Dems ultimately want to repeal all the tax cuts. There are proposals to raise the estate tax to 50% and to 100%. There are those that would like to see the effective tax rate return to 90% for the wealthy. That is the problem. And proposals would raise taxes on those earning less than $250,000 per year.

But, here is the thing, why have a Death Tax, why can't someone build up wealth and pass it along to their family. AGAIN, NO ONE IS ANSWERING (or is avoiding answering because there is not good answer), is why have a death tax in the first place. Why is it FAIR. You guys are trying to counter an argument that I am NOT making. You assume my reason for keeping taxes low is because it is better for the economy, I am not saying that. I am arguing from a fundamental principal of fairness and freedom. I just think it is wrong that a person, any persons, largest monthly expenses should be taxes.