Question Fraud upon the court?

[secondtimer]

Some supporting documents filed with a claim in my 13 are obviously forged (initials on pages don't match other docs) and the last page isn't notarized.

Is this enough to contest this claim?

Document in question is the promissory note attached to my mortgage.

I surrendered the home in my plan because I can't afford the terms as is. I want to stay if they'll modify. I'm hoping to use the invalid claim (I hope) as leverage.

What might the judge do if their actions are considered fraud upon the court?

[BKAttyMI]

Do you have an attorney? Did you pull registered copies of your mortgage paperwork from your jurisdictions registrar? Does it match the documents that were filed?

[secondtimer]

Awaiting response from my ATT.
I'll check recorders office, thanks for the tip.

[justbroke]

If you want to litigate things like this... it actually requires litigation. If you're looking to make the Note go away, you'd probably need to do it by complaint. You'll need an expert handwriting analyst amongst other witnesses. You'll need to prove it... not just say it's not my signature (or initials). I have the same issue with the Note on mine. I initial my papers a VERY particular way (I do more than just my initials by adding some other shapes). Unless you know how I "initial" things, you'll never know how I "initial" things!

I did not fight mine since that would require a full blown trial. If you're just trying to get the claim changed or use it as leverage, still... talk to your attorney and you may want to bring in a foreclosure specialist (attorney) rather than a BK attorney. Most foreclosure attorneys in Florida charge about $1,500 for a "simple" defense of a foreclosure action. If you're going for a "quiet title" action, that would certainly cost more.

Also, as BKatty suggests, check your local records. If you're in Florida, this is quite simple. However, the items filed with the county recorder may not have indorsements on them.

[SunshineGal]

Just wanted to point out that in the state of Florida the mortgage "note" isn't recorded, just the mortgage itself. If you still have your closing package from the title company you should have a copy in there, if not, than you may want to contact the title company and see if they still have it. If you go to the county clerk website you should be able to view the recorded documents under Official Records.

Also, before you spend all kinds of money for a foreclosure attorney, make sure you didn't sign a form that gives authorization for them to correct documents such as sign or initial on your behalf. I actually had one of those in my closing package and refused to sign it.

[justbroke]

Thanks for the update sunshine. You're correct that Florida County Courts don't have a recorded Note.

[secondtimer]

Still waiting to hear from Att. Is he compelled to amend my petition if I request it?

I did a little research and from what I've gleaned so far the note doesn't need to be notarized or initialed, only signed.

Funny thing is all the signature pages on my copies of the note and the mortgage are blank with no initials or signatures.
Next time I'm getting copies of the originals.

The att I used for closing didn't serve me very well.

[justbroke]

Whether your attorney is "compelled" to do anything, is based on your fee agreement.

[secondtimer]

I guess a better question would be;

Does the attorney that represented me when the plan was prepared/filed/confirmed have to be the attorney/firm that represents me for the duration of the plan?

[justbroke]

Does the attorney that represented me when the plan was prepared/filed/confirmed have to be the attorney/firm that represents me for the duration of the plan?

Technically, yes. However, this does not mean that there won't be additional fees incurred and required if you change something or need a new motion filed. Typically, the fee quoted at the start of the case is to get you to Confirmation, maybe do a couple of RFS hearings, attend the 341 Meeting, and some confirmed case "monitoring". (In my District, it's typical for the attorney to get about $1,500 for monitoring a 60-month case.)

However, case monitoring typically does not cover new things.

Super short answer: yes, the same attorney must represent you until the earlier of the case is being dismissed, the case being closed, or withdrawal of the attorney; whichever comes first.

[HHM]

These types of challenges are pretty much dead in the water in most bankruptcy courts.

[secondtimer]

Thanks all.

Perhaps I need to abide by the plan (confirmed) and surrender the house and seek a remedy in state court. I know I got screwed with the whole subprime lending thing and knowing the banks got a pass on it ticks me off.

My note was bought by a trust started by the guy who invented MBS (Ranieri) and supposedly started this whole mess.

The way the loan got jostled around and now the F/C is getting jostled between different law firms has got the red flags flying.

I really only want a house payment that will fit into my budget. I owe $250k. The BPO attached to their claim has got it valued at $140k.

I wonder if I should try one last time for a workout outside of the BK.

[SunshineGal]

Funny thing is all the signature pages on my copies of the note and the mortgage are blank with no initials or signatures.
Next time I'm getting copies of the originals.

This is actually pretty typical. The closing agent prepares your package in advance and the lender doesn't care if your copy is signed, just so long as they get the originals. Now the Title Company should have a full signed copy package which they usually keep for quite a few years.