Political Discussion

[banca rotta]

Just look at all the more people who have filed BK in the last year alone not to mention the people who are on the edge of filing. Do people honestly believe that the government will be able to survive the debt it has created when they can't survive their own! No, when the second dip comes it will be all over. Death and destruction will reign supreme because desperate people do desperate things, compassion will be a very rare trait! It has happened before in the past and will happen again.

They will survive with all the wealth they have stolen.

What will most likely happen is we will default on the debt by some or all of it. The rest of the world including China will have major difficulties since they are our creditors and they won't see their money back or if they do it will have lost most of it's value.

[banca rotta]

And there you have it BobMango.

Whenever you speak your mind and debate about right and wrong or breaking the law vs abiding by it there's always another one out there such as backtoschool that plays the race card.

I wasn't mentioning race!

The real reason nothing productive is getting done on this immigration issue. The backtoschools of the world have done more to set back race relations then the kkk could ever hope to do.

It's right and wrong!!!! Not skin color!!!

There are so few backtoschools and yet the politicians and media roll out the red carpet for them every time unfortunately.

[BobMango]

Racism and xenophobia have never led to any positive or productive outcome in this country. I have no desire to go back to the fear and racial hatred of the 1930's. Although our economy is suffering, targeting innocent people because of their heritage is not a productive option and never will be.

For every "convict" that Castro sent over, there were many many more productive hard-working Cubans that came over here and helped make this country productive and prosperous.

I am of the belief that many people, both citizens and non-citizens, break laws at some time in their lives and are not necessarily deserving of being "prosecuted with vigor". Why should we wink and turn the other way to some non-violent crimes, yet pursue other non-violent crimes with vigor? Who gets to decide which crimes should be ignored? Certainly I don't want to be on the public stoning committee.....

And frankly, if there wasn't such a huge demand for drugs, there would not be such a huge supply. Let's concentrate on treatment for chronic boredom, pain, and depression, which is what is causing the demand for drugs. If there is no market for the drugs, the problems solves itself....

That's it, whip out the race card. Heaven knows it doesn't get enough use these days. Thing is I like brown people and black people and all kinds of people. Some are close friends, some are family members. Why do folks that want to secure the border always get hammered with the race card? It seems like a cheap shot when you have no real rational basis for argument. What I don't like are people of any kind breaking and entering and them demanding that I treat them as an honored guest.

The bottom line is that we need to control our border, not to keep out people that are different, but to maintain our security, both physical and economical. We need a guest worker program that allows our neighbors to the north or south to easily move back and forth for employment, whether that's daily, weekly, monthly or other. We need to make it difficult to obtain work here if you're not entitled. Doing just these two things will make monitoring and securing our border that much easier.

So stop with the race accusations when you know nothing about the motivations of folks that think a secure border is a good thing.

[NoMoeMoney]

Just look at all the more people who have filed BK in the last year alone not to mention the people who are on the edge of filing. Do people honestly believe that the government will be able to survive the debt it has created when they can't survive their own! No, when the second dip comes it will be all over. Death and destruction will reign supreme because desperate people do desperate things, compassion will be a very rare trait! It has happened before in the past and will happen again.

[backtoschool]

We are and it's a huge reason why we are in this mess. Just look at all the bankrupt hospitals in Calf and everywhere else.

Like it or not, agree or not as Ohio said we are a nation of laws. Today I noticed that only the growing poor and shrinking middle class have to abide by the law.

No one else seems to have to and that will change very soon I hope.

I understand where you are coming from banca rotta. But for me it's a matter of consistency. If we punish white men who have committed non-violent crimes as vigorously as we punish those of foreign heritage or of darker skin color, then at least we are being fair and meting out punishment on a level playing field.

But we don't seem to do this as a country and that is what I have a problem with.....

[backtoschool]

Closing our borders will reduce the number of illegal entrants. As our borders sit now we have limited control over entry.

We should be discriminating on who we allow to immigrate to our country. Shall we praise Castro for loading a boat with convicts and dispatching them to our shores? Should we turn a blind eye to the drug cartel members who flow back and forth across our southern border?

Who is stopped on the street for skin tone or facial feature shape? This argument is specious and only liberals abide it.

Because a job exists is no argument for allowing illegal entry into our country.

Illegal entry into our country is no minor law breaking. It is serious and should be prosecuted with vigor.

Racism and xenophobia have never led to any positive or productive outcome in this country. I have no desire to go back to the fear and racial hatred of the 1930's. Although our economy is suffering, targeting innocent people because of their heritage is not a productive option and never will be.

For every "convict" that Castro sent over, there were many many more productive hard-working Cubans that came over here and helped make this country productive and prosperous.

I am of the belief that many people, both citizens and non-citizens, break laws at some time in their lives and are not necessarily deserving of being "prosecuted with vigor". Why should we wink and turn the other way to some non-violent crimes, yet pursue other non-violent crimes with vigor? Who gets to decide which crimes should be ignored? Certainly I don't want to be on the public stoning committee.....

And frankly, if there wasn't such a huge demand for drugs, there would not be such a huge supply. Let's concentrate on treatment for chronic boredom, pain, and depression, which is what is causing the demand for drugs. If there is no market for the drugs, the problems solves itself....

[banca rotta]

We should be a forgiving and compassionate country.

We are and it's a huge reason why we are in this mess. Just look at all the bankrupt hospitals in Calf and everywhere else.

Like it or not, agree or not as Ohio said we are a nation of laws. Today I noticed that only the growing poor and shrinking middle class have to abide by the law.

No one else seems to have to and that will change very soon I hope.

[OhioFiler]

Closing our borders has never worked and never will work. People will always be willing to take risks to provide themselves the chance for a better life.

As a country of immigrants, it is simply wrong to start discriminating now. People should not be stopped on the streets because of the color of their skin or the shape of their facial features, etc, ie because they "look" like they are from a country that has a high incidence of its citizens becoming illegal immigrants here.

There are plenty of dead end jobs for everyone. If someone wants to pick grapes, mow lawns, clean toilets or make tacos at a street cart, those jobs exist today. Why discriminate as to who gets those jobs? It is heartless for no good reason, and betrays the very open door principles that made this country great.

And as to illegal immigrants breaking the law, well many people break minor laws at some point in their lives. I don't think that people should be punished endlessly for breaking a law in the past. We should be a forgiving and compassionate country.

Closing our borders will reduce the number of illegal entrants. As our borders sit now we have limited control over entry.

We should be discriminating on who we allow to immigrate to our country. Shall we praise Castro for loading a boat with convicts and dispatching them to our shores? Should we turn a blind eye to the drug cartel members who flow back and forth across our southern border?

Who is stopped on the street for skin tone or facial feature shape? This argument is specious and only liberals abide it.

Because a job exists is no argument for allowing illegal entry into our country.

Illegal entry into our country is no minor law breaking. It is serious and should be prosecuted with vigor.

[backtoschool]

It matters not who is hard working or helpful. We are a nation of laws. If you can't abide our laws you have no business in our country. Your reasoning, extended to other law-breakers such as, say rapists, implies if the rapist is also hard working and helpful we should turn a blind eye to his crimes. Besides, he probably throws a fine party!

The mass migration can be stopped and will be stopped.

I miss out on no fun fiestas. I can capable of having a grand time without illegal aliens.

Closing our borders has never worked and never will work. People will always be willing to take risks to provide themselves the chance for a better life.

As a country of immigrants, it is simply wrong to start discriminating now. People should not be stopped on the streets because of the color of their skin or the shape of their facial features, etc, ie because they "look" like they are from a country that has a high incidence of its citizens becoming illegal immigrants here.

There are plenty of dead end jobs for everyone. If someone wants to pick grapes, mow lawns, clean toilets or make tacos at a street cart, those jobs exist today. Why discriminate as to who gets those jobs? It is heartless for no good reason, and betrays the very open door principles that made this country great.

And as to illegal immigrants breaking the law, well many people break minor laws at some point in their lives. I don't think that people should be punished endlessly for breaking a law in the past. We should be a forgiving and compassionate country.

[OhioFiler]

I live in Arizona, and I work side by side with "illegal immigrants" and I have to say that all this anti-immigration rhetoric is simply not helpful. These people are some of the hardest working and most helpful people I have ever known. Some of them are my best friends.

The focus needs to be put on the drug cartels smuggling drugs across the border. They are the dangerous ones.

But no matter what you do, you will not stop the mass migration from south of the border. You might as well get used to them, at least accept them, and hopefully be friends with some of them. Otherwise you are missing out on a lot of extremely fun fiestas. These people know how to have fun.

It matters not who is hard working or helpful. We are a nation of laws. If you can't abide our laws you have no business in our country. Your reasoning, extended to other law-breakers such as, say rapists, implies if the rapist is also hard working and helpful we should turn a blind eye to his crimes. Besides, he probably throws a fine party!

The mass migration can be stopped and will be stopped.

I miss out on no fun fiestas. I can capable of having a grand time without illegal aliens.

[houston7]

I live in Arizona, and I work side by side with "illegal immigrants" and I have to say that all this anti-immigration rhetoric is simply not helpful. These people are some of the hardest working and most helpful people I have ever known. Some of them are my best friends.

The focus needs to be put on the drug cartels smuggling drugs across the border. They are the dangerous ones.

But no matter what you do, you will not stop the mass migration from south of the border. You might as well get used to them, at least accept them, and hopefully be friends with some of them. Otherwise you are missing out on a lot of extremely fun fiestas. These people know how to have fun.

I'll report from Houston Texas and second this. Not only is this debate not helpful, it is a waste of time. Neither side really wants to solve this issue.
Republicans want the cheap labor and democrats want the potential votes.

[GoingDown]

#26) The U.S. government has declared some parts of Arizona off limits to U.S. citizens because of the threat of violence from Mexican drug smugglers.


Another one related to #26 that just came out today is Obammy today filed a lawsuit against the state of Arizona for it's new immigration law.

You bammy sheeple really did it this time. Hmmm don't take your error in judgement personally. We really had no choice in 2008.

I live in Arizona, and I work side by side with "illegal immigrants" and I have to say that all this anti-immigration rhetoric is simply not helpful. These people are some of the hardest working and most helpful people I have ever known. Some of them are my best friends.

The focus needs to be put on the drug cartels smuggling drugs across the border. They are the dangerous ones.

But no matter what you do, you will not stop the mass migration from south of the border. You might as well get used to them, at least accept them, and hopefully be friends with some of them. Otherwise you are missing out on a lot of extremely fun fiestas. These people know how to have fun.

[Xue]

Are you out of touch?

Simon Black writes:

By the late summer of 1939, Hitler's forces had absorbed Austria and Czechoslovakia into his growing empire, and Germany's military was massed at the Polish border clearly preparing for invasion.

In an astonishing display of perhaps the greatest complacency in the history of the modern world, however, Polish people sat lazing about their lakes, beaches, and riverbanks worrying about more pressing matters-- like how to beat the summer heat.

In September of that year, German troops easily vanquished the Polish army, and Krakow became the colonial seat of the occupying forces. Almost immediately, under the direction of the German SS, anyone who posed a threat was rounded up and imprisoned. This included over 180 Polish university professors and many businessmen.

Krakow, of course, is also very close to two of the main concentration camps used during the German occupation, nearby Oswiecim (Auschwitz) and Plaszow.

The worst part is that, even after the war was over, Poland merely swapped fascism for Stalinism. Overall, the country was shrouded in brutal totalitarian control for half a century; undoubtedly, the Nazi invasion of Poland set off a chain of events that would forever affect the lives of all Poles.

It's true that no one had a crystal ball back then... but it would certainly stand to reason that with Hitler knocking at your door, you would probably want to have an escape plan. Even more prudently, perhaps to have already executed it.

Many Poles did just that; they spent the preceding seasons liquidating assets, stocking up on gold, and getting their travel documents in order. By the time Hitler came to town, many of the smart ones were already gone.

My guess is that the ones who left were probably ridiculed by their peers as "crazy", or "fringe", or "out of touch", or my personal favorite, "unpatriotic." It's as if they had a solemn national duty to stay, get roped up and waste away in a concentration camp for the 'greater good' of Poland.

For those who escaped before the war, many of them went on to build new lives in places like the United States, Brazil, and Argentina. They prioritized freedom and opportunity, and they went to the best places that were safest for themselves and their families.

I've met a businessman here (I'll call him "Jarek") who I think has the best story to sum this up; when Jarek's father was just a boy in Krakow, the family saw the warning signs and decided to leave town. This was 1938.

Jarek's grandfather owned a successful bakery at the time, yet he felt that he would rather start over somewhere else than risk the safety of his family by living in a police state. They sold everything-- the house, livestock, and business... and everyone else thought they were crazy.

Within six months, the family was in Curitiba, Brazil; Jarek's grandfather soon established a new bakery that eventually became a thriving business. Jarek's father grew up in Curitiba and integrated into the local culture, yet he maintained his roots since there were many other Poles who followed them there.

30-years later, the face of Brazil started to change. By the mid-1960s, the whole of Latin America was becoming a military dictatorship. Once again, the family decided to get out while they could and head towards better opportunity; they sold the business, liquidated their assets, and this time headed towards the United States.

Jarek was just a baby when the family made this move. He grew up in a Polish neighborhood of Chicago, spoke Polish at home, and married a Polish girl from his neighborhood.

He was working as a young real estate professional in the Chicago suburbs when the Berlin Wall fell, at which point he began making more frequent trips to Poland to visit his family's homeland.

In his subsequent trips throughout the following years, Jarek began feeling like there was more and more opportunity in Poland; in 2003, fearful of what would happen in Chicago because of the "War on Terror," Jarek moved his family full-circle back to Poland because he felt like it was the safest, most opportunity-rich place for him to be.

He may have been right; his business is booming, and the family really enjoys the life they have built for themselves here. To listen to him talk, though, they would happily leave and go somewhere else if the right circumstances were presented.

"My most important obligation is to my family," he told me. "I will go wherever I can provide the best life for them, whether that is Poland, America, Brazil, or anywhere else. Nothing lasts forever, you have to expect that these things will change from time to time. People have to learn to change as well, to not get rooted in ideology."

[Xue]

#4) In Florida, students have been arrested by police for things as simple as bringing a plastic butter knife to school, throwing an eraser, and drawing a picture of a gun.

seriously, thats crazy, maybe a telling off but arrested

1/6 scale GI JOE toy also...

[Abbie64]

Welcome to one of the issues with a zero tolerance policy. The principals in all these cases claimed that they had no choice but to contact law enforcement.

zero tolerance indeed, its one of thing people can't risk leaving incase they get taken to court and sued.