Let's Debate~~Child Support Issues

[pink_amulet]

But, what is in question here is why is the father being financially punished for something that he had no idea about? Should he be faulted for not wanting a relationship with the child?

Yes he should be made financially responsible if ....I say IF the father wants a relationship. If he wants to be part of the child's life and catch up on old times, then yes, by all means pay up.

HOWEVER I think....

No, He should not be financially responsible if he does not Is there someone you know that is in this situation, cause you keep redirecting back to the same question? It seems like you are looking for other alternative answers to the situation.

Pink

[lilgoose]

Well, I can't believe that it took this long to figure it out!! Yes, it is up close and personal. My hubby is looking at this very situation and the child in question is actually 13 1/2 yrs old. He found out thru a certified letter from children services that he was being named a father. So, he fought taking the paternity test for over a year. This whole time, at every hearing, she (the mother) has repeatedly said that she could care less if he fell off the face of the earth. She has repeatedly said that she wants him to have nothing to do with the kid. She wanted (past tense) nothing from him. She has the kid on medicaid and the state wants the kid on his insurance, of which has yet to happen. Anyway, he took the test in Sept and found out in October~the bad news. It has devastated both of us...him because of everything and me because of what it means to our children for him to lose so much of his income to support. So, we just found out that she went to a hearing in Dec and said that she didn't want insurance, she wants support instead. Now, this blew us away~coming from someone who has said no to his involvement with the child. So, her attorney told her that he would be allowed to see the kid. She backed off. Friday, we find out that she has now put in the offer of his paying half her rent (she is also behind 2 months, supposedly) and wants this to the end of October. I guess she is going to school and will be done at that time. (Oh, we are all in our late 30's to low 40's, so there are no kid-games here).

Well, I suppose her wanting him to support HER was the last straw and now my hubby is ticked! Finally, he is going to stand up and really fight this. All this time, he was hoping that she would just go away since she has stated how she hates him.

The situation is that he was introduced to her, slept with her and found out that she was looking to get pregnant. So, he stopped seeing her. Guess that one time was enough! He didn't even know that she was pregnant until a year ago. Hadn't even heard from her all these years. The real kicker is that she, at one point, lived about 2 miles from us! We didn't even know it. We have since moved and now live 40 miles from that area, but the thought....She even went to another county to have this kid.

So, I was just wondering if someone felt as though I did about her and this whole mess. It is a miracle that we came thru bk with no damage to our marriage, only to have someone come in and really make a mess for us! This has done damage to us. Mostly emotional because I really struggle with how to deal with it.

As I said earlier, he is a wonderful husband. Very supportive and a super great provider for his family. He does take care of us and is a great father. Very proud of his kids and brags all the time about them. This has really hurt him and he really doesn't want a relationship with the child. But, if she pushes for support, then he will push for all his rights. He doesn't think she will push back given her state of mind towards him. He will go so far as to have himself added to her birth certificate and make the mother legally change the kids last name to his! Yes, he will put forth an honest attempt to have a relationship with the child. She would not know of any of this from him. Any negative would come from her mother.

Oh, the tangled webs we weave!!!

Kudos to you for figuring this out!!!

[StaciMM]

I think the end answer depends on what is best for the child. I would say if you're not one of the parties involved, it is impossible to know the full details & intents. Whether a support order is right or wrong will depend on the specifics of that particular case-one size fits all doesn't work.

[Danielle1981]

Chiming in here late...but here's my two cents on the matter:

I feel bad for the kid in all this. The teen years are a tough part of any kids life and I can't imagine what a living hell it is to watch your mom use you as a pawn for money and your father say he wants nothing to do with you. It must be devastating for him.

ETA: I'm not taking sides....just stating this from the kids perspective. Personally, I think she's a selfish *^#&$*#& for denying her son that relationship with his father because there's more than financial support that he lost out on. And the dad....it sucks to be him cause he lost out on time (which he'll never get back) and gets handed 13 years of child support over night.

[lilgoose]

Well, the up-to-date is this: She is now going for half of 2 months worth of rent that she is behind plus half rent money up till this coming October. She is doing this so she doesn't have to give any rigths to the father and she can keep the kid from him without losing any income from him!!! What a real b#@%*!!! So, it is either do this or else she will go for back child support, and that will amount to around $15k to $17k! What a royal witch! And, now we are looking for a new attorney. He was all gun-ho on helping out a year and a half ago. Said he believed that there was no knowledge of this kid, who was 12 1/2 at the time. Now, he says there is a descreptency because she says he knew and he still says he didn't. So, his own client is now either lying or he did know. No, we have been married for almost 12 years and he has never mentioned this kid. He was as floored and devastated as I was when the original letter was received. So, please don't say that he really knew and he is hiding it. He really didn't. He isn't that way and very supportive and responsible for his family. So, again, the atty seems to have a big problem in fighting for HIS rights!!

Ohio law states that a mother can go after a father until the child is 25 yrs of age, as long as she has never received a penny in support.

Also, this same law states that a mother, within 30 days of the child's birth, can give the child up for adoption WITHOUT notifying the father of the process!!!

Ohio is so screwed up!!!!

Wanna hear the best part? He is also our bk atty!!! Ha! Ha!

Question: How long after a ch 7 bk is discharged do you have to add on something that might have been forgotten? You know, like going to court and filing his fees along with it????? Hee! Hee!!

[Danielle1981]

I'd say call her bluff....I'd file for custody too. Obviously she's not fit enough or stable enough to pay her own bills...ie the important ones....you know the ones that provide shelter over this kids head. You guys can provide a family....what can she provide? Then sue her right back for child support. That should undo about half your bill.

[SinkingFast]

Legally fighting can be very expensive. Attnys' fees are kinda like the cash clock in a Taxi Cab. They run up before you know it. And that don't count Court costs for filing motions and such.

I feel for you about having to try to work extra rent payments into your budget. Hubby got hired and we were thrilled. At least he wasn't out of a job. But, since it was outa state, he'd need some place to live. All the sudden we have a rent payment, and utilities. So I know that's not going to be easy either.

There is nothing about this whole situation that is easy.

But it seems a bit too convenient that all the sudden the chick is saying your Hubby knew a long time ago. Esp when she didn't mention it before. You'd think that woulda been the first thing out of her mouth, to her attny, when she started all this stuff. Wonder why her attny doesn't find that odd??!! I know if I was her attny, I would. "Oh yeah, and by the way, my client suddenly remembers that you did indeed know all about the child and chose to ignore your responsibilites over the years." Sounds kinda fishy.

[Minnymouth]

Word of caution,
If she can con him into paying past due rent bills, then she can still come back and claim for child support..... after she's collected on the other....

DO NOT pay anything but child support - and demand joint custody, visitation rights, etc. Also demand birth certificate states fathers name....

Men who pay child support have many "rights" which they are entitled too..... just because she thinks she can stop them doesn't mean she can....

Whether he has a relationship with this child or not, keeps the lines open and stastics recorded that yes, he's aware of this being his child, he has the right to visitation, and yes he pays child support. Thus the child KNOWS in the future that yes he did have a father who tried to do the right thing (even years later)...... This child may come hunting him later down the road - many do!!!

The fact that this woman has waited all these years to "come get him" (for her own financial reasons) will be interesting to the custodial board in Ohio... Means she lied on legal papers to get help from the State of Ohio (stating she didn't know who the father was)...

Also when a woman is getting state aid - SHE WILL NOT get the money she's going after - the state does........ for they have been supporting her/child.

So don't give her an extra DIME!!!! For nothing.....

If she can't pay her rent - the state will take custody of the child because of her neglect in the matter.

Attorneys can get the arrears removed in many cases because of the the lying and neglect of the custodial parent...

Really need to talk to an attorney about your options....

Keep us posted.

[Minnymouth]

Ohio laws have changed over the years. Now they have the law where a woman has to go to work (on a job) after her children start school if there is no physical reason why she can't work - in order to receive her support from the State of Ohio. Also she will only be paid for 2 kids only.... no more money for 5-8 kids...

Also I heard that they are going to startup the 2 year limit on State Support... They will help you for 2 years, after that you have to be disabled to get help...

My neice learned this lesson well... She bled the Ohio system for 10 years. When her 2nd child started school she was notfied to find a job.... (Boy was she mad!!!). The state even found her a job - she worked 2 weeks and quit when she found out they were going to take most of her check to pay back the support she was getting from the State... DUH - she wanted the states money and the money she worked out also...... THEY TOLD HER - DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!... Get back to work........she refused - they discontinued her benefits...............and said "sorry"......... Thus leaving her with no job, no food stamps, no medical cards, etc.

SO NOW - she HAS TO WORK - NO BENEFITS - NO HELP - and NO CHILD SUPPORT....(her ex is in the clink for non-support)...

She tried having a 3rd child to get benefits back and they said "sorry, only pay for 2"..... and you refused to work!!!

I was glad to see my neice in this position and so was her father....... He laughed, said "NOW GO TO WORK AND MAKE A LIVING LIKE THE REST OF US".......

Don't get me wrong, her children didn't do without - grandpa sees to that.....

But his daughter's "free ride for 10-15 years was over.... HELLO REAL WORLD.....

Time to be responsible for her actions and grow up!!

The days of women sucking the "system" is about over.... the days of keep having kids to draw a check is about over... the days of deadbeat dads is about over.... (now they go to jail for non-support)..

Lots of things need to be redesigned - and it's TIME!!

My thoughts,

[Danielle1981]

You know I was coming back on here to say exactly that....she's asking for this now and you're going to give it to her....what makes you think she's not going to come back and ask for more if she's that deceitful? You gotta fight back....you have no choice. Or rather you do but the alternative is worse in the long run.

Minymouth has some very good valid points in what she is saying.

[lilgoose]

I have to say that I really appreciate knowing that there is others out there that are just as shocked and angered over this whole situation.

Okay, to clear up a couple of things....

She has supposedly named only the G as the father. She did not name any one on the birth cert. He has lived within 2 counties of her all these years. Could have easily found him any time she wanted to. She lost her job 1 1/2 yrs ago and started receiving unemployment. She put the kid on medicaid so that the kid would have health insurance. At this point, she had to name a father....(I don't believe she had to as my friend went on medicaid when she found out she was pregnant and didn't have maternity insurance. She DID NOT have to name the father, they never asked on the same form as the kid's mom had to fill out and she qualified, as did her son).

What she has said from the VERY BEGINNING, in the court room, was that she wanted NOTHING from G and wanted him to have nothing to do with the kid (girl). She basically said that she didn't care if he fell off the face of the earth. We still don't know a thing about this kid other than the birthday is sometime in June and she will be 14.

She finally got a job last summer, but was supposedly not making enough to take the kid off medicaid. She also repeatedly said that she didn't even want the kid on his insurance. It has been the state pushing the insurance and not her....At least, that was what G has been told all this time.

So, what is this 2 yr help law? She is nearing that this summer for the medicaid. The mother is going to school right now and in October will be able to get a better job. I assume she is working right now. Her atty has stated that come Oct, she will take the kid off his insurance and stop the rent money. This will be court ordered but not stated to be child support.

G's atty has said that by accepting this "proposal" it will stop any going back for back child support. That is sounding really great considering that it will amount to 15 to 20k's.

We did speak with another atty today and he could help lessen the mess that he is in, but we have to release this other idiot before we can retain him (which I knew that prior to speaking with him).

Will keep you posted as new things happen


THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!! Not to mention just allowing me vent and rage about what the negative consequences this will have on my children. Yes, we have two children, one is 5 and the other is 11. They stand to lose so much because of her. Not to mention that between the atty fees and what could be support pymts, either way, we could be looking at filing ch 13 on top of just recently having our ch 7 discharged! Any one wanna trade shoes?????

My son needs to have braces in about a year and we won't have the money to do so. This is while this kid will receive around $5,000 to $6,000 in support every year. Oh, our two children, that we planned based on his income, will only be worth $2,000 a year!!

Gee, $5K for one kid verses raising two on only $2k....What is wrong with this picture???????

Quick thought....What would happen if an anonymous call to children's services was made stating that there was fear that the child could be out on the streets as the mother is behind on bills????? Do they really check into those calls?

[lilgoose]

Quick footnote.....seriously thinking of filing for separation and putting the kids on foodstamps, medicaid and getting child support....all before she gets hers.

It makes me sick to think this is what might have to be done just to make sure that my kids don't do without.

What kind of system says that child support is for the best interest of the child, but yet will take from one to give to another????

[Danielle1981]

I personally think our system is screwed. I think whatever portion of that income is to go to the kids should be divided equally. I don't think kid A deserves more cause s/he was born before the others which is the way our system is designed. I understand where you are coming from but she's pulling your chain. She got in it to get money point blank. Unless she writes in the orders that she is waiving any back child support DO NOT agree to it. Make her write that in. Because then worst case scenario you are looking at 4 years. But again make her relinquish her rights to asking for any back support. She can not under any state law relinquish future support unless she agrees to have your husband relinquish his rights but at least that gets you off the hook for any previous support.

P.S. if that is what it takes to make sure your kids are taken care of go for it. I don't think anyone is going to fault you for it. She's playing the system why shouldn't you? It's very obvious she played the system for what it's worth and it seems a little too fishy about her popping up. I had my son on medicaid (he still is) and I did not have to go after his dad. They never forced me to. They asked me if I wanted to, but never said I had to.

[lilgoose]

Are you from Ohio?

I just got really upset with my son (the 11 yr old) for something that he wasn't even doing to cause his sister (5 yr old) to scream. I went in yelling instead of going in to find out what the problem was~I am in a different room as they.

The anguish that this has caused is beyond belief. The stress and depression that is setting in is taking it's toll.

It is so ironic that our marriage is surviving the bk with no battle scars, only lessons learned, to have this other woman tear us apart, piece by piece.

You know, the biggest problem is that she is a woman and he is a man. Granted, a dumb one for not being more careful that one night, but none-the-less, he is a responsible person and does take care of his children.

He drives truck and I just can't imagine how much harder he will have to work to make ends meet. Not to mention the hours of service that he must follow. Doesn't leave room for improving the paycheck. I am not working now due to an injury from work, and I lost that income back in August. And, we are doing the paycheck to paycheck thing. Plus, the cost of child care for these two would offset anything that I could make.

Off to read a good book and see if I can keep this from being night 6 of little and no sleep.........Calgon would be a wonderful thing right now! Hmmmm, maybe some aresnic??? Well, it is either a sense of humor still shining thru or else I am going to be "taken away" soon to a really pretty padded room. Well, I heard they come with these really neat jackets!!!

Until tomorrow....

[edwards2]

Boy Danielle I so agree with you about the idiotic child support system specifically the part where the kids born first take precedence over the others. My husband had 3 sons by his ex and he and I have a son. When we got hauled into court the court referee point blank told us that my son was not a factor. I was livid. What would have been fair would have been to divide the child support based on all four kids not 3.

Okay lilgoose...I was so right where you are now at least the part where child support turns your life upside down. It is really hard not to be bitter. None of us doubt you and your husband want to do the right thing in spite of all that has happened and the way it has happened. I can tell you for me it took everything I had to make it through those years of child support. Every time I turned around it was something else. I loved those boys; it had nothing to do with that but it was a huge financial strain and I worked 2 jobs so that my son did not do without. We could handle the basic living expenses but we did without a lot because of the child support increase. Now the laws have changed - in Tennessee for sure - and the custodial parent's income HAS to be considered. What galled me about my husband's ex was she remarried a guy with 3 kids and he had the kids and no child support from their mother so she took us to court for more child support. Had we had a decent attorney we could have won the case but you know how it is you get what you pay for. The only good thing was she didnt get what she was asking for which was the max allowable under the IRS guidelines. She wanted 48% of my husbands income and the court said no way. Greedy heifer....

My advice to you would be for you and your husband to lean on each other through this and you can make it. It will be hard especially with the fact you have 2 children. Again, it was the same for me. It was hard not to be resentful but in your case your husband was blind-sided. Also try and remember it isnt the child's fault. I had to keep telling myself that so I wouldnt take it out on them or my husband. You can get through this just as you got through BK. Keep us posted.