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Bank Levy? This makes no sense to me

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  • #16
    Your story is not too dissimilar to mine. Spent all my 401(k) and stock (think many tens of thousands) trying to save home. Moved to Florida but miss home for sure. It is okay to be a loner; but it really stinks when you need company and reassurances, yet know hardly anyone. Even where I live now, most of the people I called friends have moved on (North Carolina, Georgia, California, other parts of Florida).

    (And yes, the Trustee knows what to look for to see if you went on a spending spree. You're going to, however, need a plan. That money will run out and then, like me, you'll be stuck with a $50k tax bill (true story) and sending the Trustee over $7K a month to survive (while eating ramen noodles and cashing $4.12 checks like they were pure gold). The ramen is a joke just for added emphasis. Let's hope it doesn't get that bad. I waited way too long and bankruptcy never entered my mind. I actually thought you had to be dead broke to file bankruptcy; I was "just" broke! If only I knew earlier, I'd have a nice little nest egg...)
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #17
      Trevor, if you will need a chunk of that money to pay at tax time, you leave it right where it is & you pay that when the time comes. How/when do you find out the answer to whether you "may" have to pay that penalty? I'd be on that like white on rice. Get a free consultation with an accountant or pay for it if you have to -- now, while you have the money. Sounds to me like a huge factor in deciding your next moves with your cash.

      I'd also recommend getting the job at Best Buy if you can. You won't be making enough (I'd guess) to exclude you from a chapter 7, but eventually your cash will be gone, and you gotta have a way to eat and keep a roof over your head. Any job at this point is better than no job. You get your bk behind you, you can go on with your fresh start and make whatever sort of money you want.

      I know you want to pay your debts. You got yourself into this mess, as you say. You signed on the lines and you promised you'd pay. Guess what? We all did. I'd say ...99% of the people I've seen come through this forum had no intention of ever ending up here. Those of us who've filed had to look at reality long and hard. We all reached a point where there was no more denying it. It's a painful process, this one you're going through. My husband and I are about your same age. The difference is we have three children along for the ride. It's humbling, it's disgusting... you kick yourself daily and think, "if only we'd done this, if only we hadn't done that..."

      But at the end of the day, it still comes down to having to make choices based on reality. It's not fun. It sucks. But you reach a point where it just IS what it IS. I saw someone here say that we go through all the stages of grief, and that is so true. I can look back and see it. Someday, I think you, too, will be able to look back and say "wow, that was a disaster" -- but you won't still have these same feelings you are experiencing now. It will be different. Much different.

      So you are, at the current moment, in the "planning" stage. Nothing wrong with planning. My husband and I had to do a lot of it. We were blessed with this forum to help us through this time. One thing I can tell you is to listen to the people here who have been there, done that. Really think about whatever free advice is offered to you. Write it down, take notes, and take action. I can also tell you that going through the process of talking to attorneys, actually filing, waiting for your 341 meeting, and then talking to the trustee -- this process is nerve wracking and stressful *even if* you have absolutely nothing to hide. Even if you've done everything how you're you're "supposed" to do it. Please, do not add more anxiety to the situation by doing anything questionable like drawing out money & hiding it. You have to go into this situation assuming that they are going to look at everything from the past 2 years, at least. Maybe more. Anything very recent will potentially raise red flags, for sure.

      Comment


      • #18
        Justbroke and Chrysalis thank you so much.

        Yes it is the planning phase i'm in right now, still depressed to the max because of this. The 10% penalty, I honestly don't know how they would inform me. Fidelity said it's between me and the IRS. I payed 20% tax on the money I took out, so technically it's not tax that I owe, just a penalty. Going back years and years, I always took money out of my 401k and they always said "you MAY have to pay 10% penalty" but I never heard anything from the IRS and this is going back 10 years.

        Something I've been thinking about lately, is how the Trustee or whoever would dig up the loan applications for my Truck and my Motorcycle. I got both back in September, I had job interviews, thought I would have a job in a week....then I'm here today still jobless, I shouldn't have gotten those vehicles before the job obviously. What has me worried is on the loan applications, both dealers told me to just put down past or present job/income and current income when I told them I was currently unemployed. They both told me that they only look at credit scores, and mine was fine. I told them I should have a job soon, because of the interviews but again they said it doesn't matter. Now I'm reading how bad that is, and I'm wondering if this will ever come up in the Trustee's/Judge's research that those dealers essentially had me lie on a credit application about my job status and income.

        Comment


        • #19
          It is not the (panel) trustee's job to object to the discharge of any debt. It would be up to the creditor, and unless you flat out lied on the application, or took out loans and never made any payments, it is highly unlikely that the creditors would bother.

          Comment


          • #20
            He did flat-out lie... putting down income having not been employed since February. Purchasing vehicles in September. But OP, as bcohen said -- the creditors who loaned you money are the ones who would have to object. The trustee will not be digging through your loan applications.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Chrysalis View Post
              He did flat-out lie... putting down income having not been employed since February. Purchasing vehicles in September. But OP, as bcohen said -- the creditors who loaned you money are the ones who would have to object. The trustee will not be digging through your loan applications.
              Thanks, I shouldn't have done that, I only did because the sales/finance guys said it was fine. At the time I wasn't thinking how serious that could be, I feel like a freaking bozo.

              Wouldn't the Creditor aggressively object though? This has me worried. The truck alone is a $35,000 loan from a Federal credit union. I plan on making another payment, and that would look terrible if I only made 3 payments and then filed Chapter 7.

              I just feel like I'm gonna get arrested and the book thrown at me for this mistake.

              Do Creditors generally object to this stuff?

              Again I'm so sorry to ask a million questions, I'm nervous as hell, I wake up after 4 hours of sleep driving my self crazy in the brain thinking about this.

              Comment


              • #22
                I personally wouldn't worry about this with secured debt (they can get the truck and sell it for some value). I believe the true problem is unsecured cash loans and/or cash equivalents (credit cards with cash advances) and you take the cash and run.

                Again, don't worry about this. Creditors go after the folks who run up large balance transfers, cash advances, or large cash loans on the "eve" of filing bankruptcy. You can buy a car just days before filing bankruptcy and it's generally not an issue. If you surrender the vehicle, the credit union (CU) may not like you any longer. They hold grudges!
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Don't be sorry ~ we all have a lot of questions at some point or another. That's what we're here for. To offer support to one another.

                  It's normal to be nervous as hell, and in this particular situation, I would be worried also. You thought you were going to have a job soon... that doesn't make you a bozo, just not completely in touch with your reality.

                  One thing to consider is that shopping / making purchases gives some of us a huge dopamine boost. (That's the neurotransmitter largely associated with "reward".) For some, this can be the rush of excitement we get from cutting coupons and getting something small like toothpaste close to free. Maybe it's something a little more expensive like needing to have the latest video game when it comes out, or collecting jewelry. And for some who have the ability to pull it off -- it could be purchases as large as cars, motorcycles, boats, RVs, etc. These things all make us feel on top of the world at the moment... they bring us a feeling of pleasure. Happiness. The problem is that some of the very things that give us those moments of fleeting happiness are the same things that can soon become like the weight of the world on our shoulders.

                  My point in saying all of this is: Don't waste any more time beating yourself up about what you've done. It's done. You can't go back and change it now. What you CAN do is change your spending habits... change your patterns. This is a lot easier to do when you are able to understand why you do it. Become the guy who gets his dopamine boost by stocking up on peanut butter at the lowest price you've ever seen. Lol. I know, that may sound dumb to you. ...Lift weights. ...Volunteer at a homeless shelter. ...Get a job at Best Buy and be the best damn salesman they've ever seen. Go the extra mile for your customers. Make people smile. Make a list of everything in life that *truly* makes you happy, and look at how many of those things do not have a large, burdensome price tag attached to them.

                  Okay, so anyway -- as to your legal questions, we do have one attorney who posts here. I will try to tag him here and see if maybe he has time to pop in and offer you any advice. despritfreya

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I will review this thread as requested and attempt to respond either during the day as time permits, this evening or early tomorrow morning.

                    Des.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by despritfreya View Post
                      I will review this thread as requested and attempt to respond either during the day as time permits, this evening or early tomorrow morning.

                      Des.
                      Thank you so much. My original post is here as well, which shows my debts and stuff.

                      http://www.bkforum.com/forum/before-...is-appreciated

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thank you to bcohen, justbroke and Chrysalis also.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                          I personally wouldn't worry about this with secured debt (they can get the truck and sell it for some value). I believe the true problem is unsecured cash loans and/or cash equivalents (credit cards with cash advances) and you take the cash and run.

                          Again, don't worry about this. Creditors go after the folks who run up large balance transfers, cash advances, or large cash loans on the "eve" of filing bankruptcy. You can buy a car just days before filing bankruptcy and it's generally not an issue. If you surrender the vehicle, the credit union (CU) may not like you any longer. They hold grudges!
                          I'm reading now about the "presumption of fraud" if you took cash loans out and file for Chapter 7 only months later. I actually took out $2500 cash advance from Discover in early November....so I'm definitely gonna have to wait to do a Bankruptcy, probably wait more than 90 days. God I wish I knew all this before I did anything, still nervous as hell. Due to court fees and lawyers, I am reading that it's rare for creditors to come after you though, because it's hard for them to proove you didn't intend to pay back AND it's $$$ for them to get lawyers.

                          If there's a silver lining here, it's that I HOPE TO GOD I meet someone that is at the beginning of debt, and I can grab them and shake them and tell them DON'T DO AS I DID!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Discover is notorious for being one of the most litigious and quick-to-sue creditors. We usually use $4,000 as a guideline before a creditor would file an AP (adversary proceeding), but nothing stops a creditor from seeking non-dischargeability on a $2,500 cash advance.

                            I know what you mean Trevor. I wish someone would have shaken me back in 2006-2008... c'est la vie.
                            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                              Discover is notorious for being one of the most litigious and quick-to-sue creditors. We usually use $4,000 as a guideline before a creditor would file an AP (adversary proceeding), but nothing stops a creditor from seeking non-dischargeability on a $2,500 cash advance.

                              I know what you mean Trevor. I wish someone would have shaken me back in 2006-2008... c'est la vie.
                              I still pay them, I owe them $4100 and still have $3400 credit left. Min payment is around $95 month.

                              I got the Discover card when I was still employed in NY, it was one of my first high credit cards.

                              I'm just waiting on either AT&T to call me for a interview, worked for them in NY for 10 years, made great $$. I already had a video interview, which I got a response the next day saying a manager should be calling me soon and the video interview went great.

                              GOD I hope I get this, it would be a $55k Yr+ job and I would work off days doing Uber or Lyft, I'll work my butt off just pay off these debts.......or get a crappy job paying $11hr just to keep my apartment and walk to work and file Chapter 7 to lose all the debt and hope to GOD I don't get locked up by some of the hiccups I made on credit apps and the cash loan.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I wish you the best! I worked for AT&T a long time ago.
                                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                                Comment

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