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PACER Account

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  • PACER Account

    For those that do not know, you need to get a PACER account to see your court documents.

    I know about this, thanks to a user here. Though, I have had difficulty figuring out what to click on.

    It turns out, I never clicked one link that shows the court has "sent" me several documents from weeks ago.

    But they are not sending me any actual paper notifications in the mail.

    How is one supposed to know this?

    I have one form I missed listed as "TERMINATED", becasue I missed the deadline listed only on a hidden page in PACER I had no idea about.

    I FINALLY got the 341 Meeting of the Creditors approved for Telephonic with Notary!

    But will this terminated form kill me???

  • #2
    BTW-How do I upload a document to PACER?

    Comment


    • #3
      Non-admitted attorneys can not upload files into PACER. PACER is technically "read only."
      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

      Comment


      • #4
        The pages are not hidden on PACER. All deficiency notifications are done by US Mail and US Mail is generally 1-3 days for delivery. For most notices that require the debtor to do something, the debtor is given 14 days to fix/respond (it may be 10, I can't remember). If you're looking at the Status area of PACER, it generally reflects things that are on the docket. You should be checking the basic status of your case often to see the "Date of last filing" which is on the summary screen after you do a search of your case (and costs $0.00 -- nothing).

        As the attorney of record in a Pro Se case, you must reasonably check the status at least 3 times a week (Monday, Wednesday, Friday) to see if anything has been filed. All of the notices sent by the court, the Trustee, and any creditor that appear on the docket, will be instantly on the docket when they "file" them electronically. Any such new docket entry will change that "Date of last filing" and you'll always know what was filed.

        You can, and should, immediately sign up for the Electronic Bankruptcy Notification system (EBN). This will send you an email (once a day at the end of the day), or any documents filed on the docket. You will also get a link where you get one free download of the docketed document. This is very nice because you get daily notices AND you don't have to pay for the first download of the docketed document when using the link provided by the EBN.

        Specifically to what you list here: from the information you provided, it would appear that this was a form due when you first filed the case. You would have received in the mail, within a week of filing, a deficiency notice (or an abatement notice) that your filing was missing details. Whenever you have an issue with a paper being filed, received a deficiency, or have any question related to bankruptcy "procedure" you should immediately, without hesitation, and with all due haste, contact the Clerk's Office of the bankruptcy court. Be sure to ask for a Case Manager and be sure to clearly state that you're asking a "procedural" question. They will help you just has they have helped me immensely with procedure (nothing that is a question of law can be addressed by them in any manner). A missing form is procedure. Which form to file... may be procedure or a question of law. The clerks in the Clerk's Office are incredible hard working people (they are doing more work these days due to downsizing), and they are extremely helpful. They are your best friend -- trust me.

        Again, if you ever have a question on any status on PACER or any filing on PACER, contact your Case Manager at the Clerk's Office to ask your "procedural" question.

        Here's the link to Electronic Bankruptcy Noticing: https://ebn.uscourts.gov/
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


        • david1971
          david1971 commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes, it was a basic form I missed when I originally filed. I can't believe I missed it! I am usually really good at these things. I check my power bill 80 times before I send it in. Ha ha. I admit I was in error here.

          I have received no such "deficiency notice or an abatement notice".

          And I FINALLY got the "Non-Compliance Notice" in the mail today. It took 3 weeks. Which is crazy that they give you 2 weeks to respond from the date the letter is sent.

          US mail, First Class is not 1-3 days. It is 1-3 WEEKS. Even the mail I send really expensive as Priority Mail is a good week. I told you, I live in a REALLY remote area. We are in the Twilight Zone.

          I signed up for EBN. But I think that can take a couple months to complete.

          But now that I know, I think that is thanks to you, I am checking PACER several times a day. They only thing keeping me from not checking every 5 minutes, is that I tell myself computer systems usually update once a day.

          Everything is going good now though. The Trustee has accepted the Notary Telephonic. Either he was impressed with my legal research, or my quick response time, or he agrees I have almost no debt and that my case is not really a big deal. It seems like it is his first time ever hearing about it.

          But everything is going good now. Except this one form!

          Does it help me at all that I never received a deficiency notice?

      • #5
        If you are not receiving mail, then you have an issue either with your mailing address, the address on file with the Court, or something else. You should immediately contact the Clerk of the Court and inform them that you are not receiving mailings. They will likely suggest that you register with the Electronic Bankruptcy Noticing (EBN) center so that you receive electronic notices. If you received absolutely "nothing" from the court, then there is an issue and you'll need to determine the issue and take corrective action.

        If does not help you as you are responsible for insuring that you are monitoring your case as the attorney-of-record. Simple things can be forgiven and that's why you would receive a deficiency notice. If there's a deficiency notice on the docket, that means that one was sent to you. The EBN is the place that actually sends out all bankruptcy notices that are issues through the Clerk's office (and for docket notifications for specific cases). The EBN registration is nearly instantaneous if you file online (and not through the form provided by most courts).

        US Mail First Class is 1-3 business days. If you have mail issues that are outside the norm then you'll need to find another way to make sure you receive notices on time. Hence, the very very strong recommendation to do the EBN registration. (You complete the application on line and then mail the confirmation to the EBN center. It usually only takes 1 week to get full EBN registration. I recommend that all Pro Se debtors, and most courts also, register for the EBN and PACER immediately before/after filing the case.)

        Now, your division may call it a "non-compliance" notice, but we call it a deficiency here. There is no need to check PACER more than once a day (around 5PM). Most things are slow. At this point, you may only need to check PACER three times a week.
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by justbroke View Post
          If you are not receiving mail, then you have an issue either with your mailing address, the address on file with the Court, or something else. You should immediately contact the Clerk of the Court and inform them that you are not receiving mailings. They will likely suggest that you register with the Electronic Bankruptcy Noticing (EBN) center so that you receive electronic notices. If you received absolutely "nothing" from the court, then there is an issue and you'll need to determine the issue and take corrective action.

          If does not help you as you are responsible for insuring that you are monitoring your case as the attorney-of-record. Simple things can be forgiven and that's why you would receive a deficiency notice. If there's a deficiency notice on the docket, that means that one was sent to you. The EBN is the place that actually sends out all bankruptcy notices that are issues through the Clerk's office (and for docket notifications for specific cases). The EBN registration is nearly instantaneous if you file online (and not through the form provided by most courts).

          US Mail First Class is 1-3 business days. If you have mail issues that are outside the norm then you'll need to find another way to make sure you receive notices on time. Hence, the very very strong recommendation to do the EBN registration. (You complete the application on line and then mail the confirmation to the EBN center. It usually only takes 1 week to get full EBN registration. I recommend that all Pro Se debtors, and most courts also, register for the EBN and PACER immediately before/after filing the case.)

          Now, your division may call it a "non-compliance" notice, but we call it a deficiency here. There is no need to check PACER more than once a day (around 5PM). Most things are slow. At this point, you may only need to check PACER three times a week.
          I figured PACER was only updated once a day.

          I see now in the docket that there WAS one issued for the missing paper about 6 weeks ago. It was the very day they received my original application! Non-Compliance notice was issued 4 weeks later. I was not informed by mail until today! That just does not seem fair. I hope the 45 day window is true.

          I can't believe there is nothing in any of the paperwork that warns people to check PACER. I would not be on PACER now, if I did not learn about it here.

          Is the Docket page the one I am supposed to be checking daily? Because there are about a dozen pages that all look pretty similar. And I don't know if I should check them all or if any of them are different. This is the first I have even seen that notice listed.

          Comment


          • #7
            There's nothing for Pro Se debtors because you "are" the attorney of record, and attorneys must stay up to date on the case. It's that simple, even though it may seem harsh for the Pro Se debtor that does not understand how the "system" works. They, the court, expect that you know what to do and that you have done your homework prior to filing. That may include reading Pro Se guidebooks (such as Nolo's Guide to Filing Chapter 7/13...) or other district Pro Se guides on what you should do. Many courts also have Pro Se debtor clinics or some Pro Bono clinics. If you can't attend any of those then you have to get a decent Pro Se guide and learn the system very quickly (within a week of filing). While the court can deal with simple oversight, the court will not allow a Pro Se individual to keep messing up. I know one judge that tells every single Pro Se at every single hearing to get a lawyer (even said it to me, although after confirmation was impressed and never said that again). The procedures (the Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure or FRBP) and Local Rules are very important to the process. Bankruptcy is all about process; it's a technical proceeding.

            What you can check everyday is the case status. That is, you perform a Query for your case and "only" look at the information at the top of the screen. There is one thing that changes the split second something is put on the docket, and that's the "Date of last filing" area. If the date changes, then something is on the docket. You then must look at the Docket and see what is new.

            The best way to keep up to date on the case is to always sign up for the EBN noticing because that way you'll get an email that something was posted on the docket. The docket and the Claims Register are the most important places in the system. In a Chapter 7, the Claims Register is likely not important unless you're in an asset case. The Claims Register is very important in a Chapter 13. I would also check the Case Status for the Flags on the case about once a month. The Case Flags are what allows your case to be discharge if there are no flags that prevent a discharge. For example, DebEdDue is the financial management class that debtors must take, and that flag will remain until you take that class; that flag prevents a discharge.
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by justbroke View Post
              There's nothing for Pro Se debtors because you "are" the attorney of record, and attorneys must stay up to date on the case. It's that simple, even though it may seem harsh for the Pro Se debtor that does not understand how the "system" works. They, the court, expect that you know what to do and that you have done your homework prior to filing. That may include reading Pro Se guidebooks (such as Nolo's Guide to Filing Chapter 7/13...) or other district Pro Se guides on what you should do. Many courts also have Pro Se debtor clinics or some Pro Bono clinics. If you can't attend any of those then you have to get a decent Pro Se guide and learn the system very quickly (within a week of filing). While the court can deal with simple oversight, the court will not allow a Pro Se individual to keep messing up. I know one judge that tells every single Pro Se at every single hearing to get a lawyer (even said it to me, although after confirmation was impressed and never said that again). The procedures (the Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure or FRBP) and Local Rules are very important to the process. Bankruptcy is all about process; it's a technical proceeding.

              What you can check everyday is the case status. That is, you perform a Query for your case and "only" look at the information at the top of the screen. There is one thing that changes the split second something is put on the docket, and that's the "Date of last filing" area. If the date changes, then something is on the docket. You then must look at the Docket and see what is new.

              The best way to keep up to date on the case is to always sign up for the EBN noticing because that way you'll get an email that something was posted on the docket. The docket and the Claims Register are the most important places in the system. In a Chapter 7, the Claims Register is likely not important unless you're in an asset case. The Claims Register is very important in a Chapter 13. I would also check the Case Status for the Flags on the case about once a month. The Case Flags are what allows your case to be discharge if there are no flags that prevent a discharge. For example, DebEdDue is the financial management class that debtors must take, and that flag will remain until you take that class; that flag prevents a discharge.
              On an aside, how do they bill you for the PACER? Funded by taxes, but you still have to pay for every single page you look at. I have probably racked up hundreds. Will they just send me the bill in hte mail once a month?

              Comment


              • #9
                PACER is not funded by taxes. It's entirely funded by fees. Please don't become a PACERholic and continue to run up fees. PACER bills quarterly (JAN-MAR, APR-JUN, JUL-SEP, OCT-DEC).

                In 1988, the Judiciary sought appropriations from the U.S. Congress in order to provide electronic public access to court records. However, Congress did not provide the funds and instead directed the Judiciary to fund the initiative through user fees. As a result, the program relies exclusively on fee revenue. From http://www.pacer.gov
                To counterbalance the fees for Pro Se users, the Electronic Bankruptcy Noticing (EBN) center, at least, provides a one-time download of each document served on the registered debtor. It takes some of the bite away from the $0.10 per page on papers served through CM/ECF (PACER).
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Take advantage of the EBN free download and be sure to save or print every document you download so you don't later have to incur a PACER charge. To avoid paying more fees than needed on PACER, after you are in the first screen for your case, look for the last activity date (or maybe it's last document filed). I think it's at or near the top right of the screen. If there has been no activity since you last checked, then log off. With these two tips you may be able to avoid fees entirely. PACER only charges if you reach a certain amount in the quarter. It used to be $10, but I think it was increased to $15. At 5 cents per page, you should be able to avoid fees.
                  LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                  Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                  $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                    PACER is not funded by taxes. It's entirely funded by fees. Please don't become a PACERholic and continue to run up fees. PACER bills quarterly (JAN-MAR, APR-JUN, JUL-SEP, OCT-DEC).


                    To counterbalance the fees for Pro Se users, the Electronic Bankruptcy Noticing (EBN) center, at least, provides a one-time download of each document served on the registered debtor. It takes some of the bite away from the $0.10 per page on papers served through CM/ECF (PACER).
                    Just got the EBN approved the other day. I wonder how long it takes to notify you after being approved. I have had several updates to PACER, but no EBM e-mails.
                    Last edited by david1971; 03-08-2018, 06:45 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by david1971 View Post

                      Just got the EMN approved the other day. I wonder how long it takes to notify you after being approved. I have had several updates to PACER, but no EBM e-mails.
                      Electronic Bankruptcy Noticing emails are typically sent when the notices are received by the EBN center. I have seem them delayed by as much as one day. They only send one email per day, so if there are multiple docketed items in a single day, they'll be in one email. Thinking back, the number of emails may be based on whether you select one email per docket entry or multiple emails.

                      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                        Electronic Bankruptcy Noticing emails are typically sent when the notices are received by the EBN center. I have seem them delayed by as much as one day. They only send one email per day, so if there are multiple docketed items in a single day, they'll be in one email. Thinking back, the number of emails may be based on whether you select one email per docket entry or multiple emails.
                        Yes, there is an option. And I opted for the one e-mail. We'll see if the new one kicks in.

                        Comment

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