Chapter 13 Discharged ... But It's Still Not Over ...

[FeelingHopeless]

Well, in a few days we have to leave to take our daughter out of state. She was accepted into an internship and she didn't have any way to get there ... so, we're going to drop her off and then take a couple days for ourselves to relax.

In the meantime, the bankruptcy court sent out a notice that there's been a sanction request against the credit union. They have until the 23rd to file an objection along with a reason why we're wrong. To be honest, I'm really nervous about what they'll file ... but ... here's a few details ...

They were claiming that they repo'ed the van because they weren't sent all the paperwork and didn't KNOW we were in a Chapter 13 bankruptcy ... BUT ... first of all (and most obviously) they had been receiving payments from the trustee for nearly five years ... AND ... years ago, when our plan was first confirmed, I was getting late notices and nasty letters from the credit union because the trustee wasn't paying them on my prior due date. So ... my lawyer sent a letter to THEIR lawyer stating that we were in a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, that they weren't allowed to harass me or send late notices ... AND ... we included those letters in our evidence for the sanction. So, basically, the excuse that "we didn't know" doesn't even begin to hold water.

I suppose the big question is ... was there any harm because of their actions? Well, I would say yes ... we had no intention of taking out a 16k loan this soon after our discharge ... I had no way of getting to work without a vehicle ...

Plus, although this won't matter to the court, my husband has an anxiety disorder and has been on medication for over ten years ... and, between the reposession AND the whole lawyer/court/sanction thing, this has really sent him over the edge ... so on a very personal level, it was VERY bad for us ... but ... I can't go to court and say, "They should be fined because my husband has been a nervous wreck for WEEKS because of this ..."

Anyhow ... our lawyer knows we'll be out of town for about a week ... and, when we get back, we'll probably have some mail waiting for us ...

[chpxiii]

I JUST found this! You DEFINITELY need to keep us updated. I'm so intrigued! (I'm even leaving work late just to read this whole thread. :P )

Good luck!

[lrprn]

Oh, I'm not naive ... they'll file an objection and we'll end up having a hearing before it's over ... but we're on our way.

I think you might be surprised, FH. With such a cut and dried case against them, your credit union's lawyer just might convince to cut their losses and settle. Of course, some people are just stubbornly stupid....then they will get to pay you PLUS their own court and lawyer costs. Their choice.

The credit union's most obvious defenses would seem to this non-lawyer to be:

- The repossession was not "willful" (See Fleet Mortgage Group, Inc. v. Kaneb, 1999 WL 1006329 (1st. Cir.) at http://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/...ON=05-2453.01A ) Basically, "if there is knowledge of the stay and the defendant intended the actions which constituted the violation and where the creditor received actual notice of the automatic stay, courts must presume that the violation was deliberate." (From http://www.molleurlaw.com/article-14.php).

- You weren't really harmed by what they did. However, as your lawyer noted, they forced you to go buy a new car within days of discharging all your debt to remain employed. That's likely to be seen by the court as harm.

IF we would win this thing, how long does the credit union have to pay up?

Depends on what time frame the judge gives them. One of the automatic stay violation cases I read gave the creditor 15 days to pay up - http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...nk&cd=10&gl=us

and IF we win this thing, do you owe taxes on whatever the court awards?

I'm thinking yes, but that's just a guess. One of our tax-savvy members or your lawyer or a tax accountant can give you the answer.

[FeelingHopeless]

Well, here we go ...

The lawyer filed paperwork requesting that the Chapter 13 be reopened with a sanction against our credit union for $10k plus lawyers fees, court costs, etc. plus "whatever other damages the court sees fit." Today we got a paper in the mail stating that the bankruptcy court has received our paperwork ... and notifying the credit union that they have until the 23rd to file an objection and a reason why we're wrong (basically) or we autmatically win.

Oh, I'm not naive ... they'll file an objection and we'll end up having a hearing before it's over ... but we're on our way.

I had two quick questions though ... IF we would win this thing, how long does the credit union have to pay up? and IF we win this thing, do you owe taxes on whatever the court awards?

Just wondering ... I'll let you know what excuses they come up with for why they THOUGHT they could repo our van after my Chapter 13 was discharged.

[FeelingHopeless]

Thanks, JGG ... it doesn't feel like the upper hand at the moment. I'm hoping it will when it's all over with! haha

[JollyGG]

Don't apologize for the updates. I'm fascinated by your case and love to hear the latest.
It is great to see one of us with the upper hand for a change.

[lrprn]

Thanks for the update, FH. What a bunch of slimy cockroaches there are at your CU....unbelieveable how arrogant some people can be.

I would dearly love to see the looks on all the cockroach faces when word of your lawsuit arrives on their doorstep! LOL! Even better will be when the settlement for their flagrant violation of your discharge even after they have been paid what they were due costs them many thousands of dollars! You go, girl!!

[FeelingHopeless]

One Last Update This Weekend ...

Hi, everyone ... sorry to keep posting, but I thought I'd update once more this weekend since people have asked what has happened with the situation. Plus ... I have a quick question at the end of this big, rambling post ...

I went and read everything after work. We are filing a "Sanction" against the credit union to the bankruptcy judge. The attorney is asking for $10,000 in damages plus attorney's bills, fees, and court costs and ... now, this isn't the exact wording ... but it's something along the lines of "any other damages or compensation the court sees as fit."

My husband is going in to sign the paperwork on Monday and he'll file it immediately afterwards. I told Timothy that the hubster is getting extremely anxious and is worried that we're racking up legal bills that we'll be responsible for if we lose.

Timothy said that nothing is ever guaranteed ... but that our case is tight. We were discharged from a Chapter 13 after paying them $5,000 over the course of 5 years. He said it was a serious violation for them to reposses our van ... two months AFTER the discharge.

So, that's where we're at. Coincidentally, when I got home from our meeting, our first bill from his office was in the mail ... it's around $250, which isn't astronomical but it's not exactly spare change either.

I'm going to call Monday ... but does anyone know ... in a case like ours, do attorneys usually have you go ahead and pay the fees and get reimbursed IF you win ... or do they wait until the case is over so the other party can pay THEM directly if you win? I'm going to call either way, of course ... I'm just curious if anyone knows what usually happens in this kind of situation.

Thanks for the help guys ... gosh, I just want this to be over.

[FeelingHopeless]

I called our lawyer's office ... and Timothy just laughed. I think his exact words were, "You'd think they'd just leave well enough alone ..."

I said I was confused as to why they would even SEND this letter. Timothy thinks that on top of illegally repossessing my van and causing me to take out a loan for another vehicle ... I am now being threatened with humiliation at a public vote if I do not send them a written letter asking them "please take away my credit union membership." He said it's another emotional tactic against us.

But, I still don't understand what they think they can accomplish by this? Just one last parting jab? We don't have any business with them anymore? What's the point of saying they're having a public expulsion vote against us? God ... it NEVER ends!!!

[FeelingHopeless]

Oh Wait, There's More!!!

OH WAIT THERE'S MORE! LOL

We got a letter last night saying that, effective August 30, 2007, we are no longer members of the credit union that took our van. According to the letter, our "explusion" is going to be voted on at a special meeting prior to their annual meeting. If we wish to avoid this (unspoken yet meant to be humiliating) vote ... we can voluntarily withdraw our membership in writing! How nice of them, eh?

The word expulsion is in this letter at least five times. For instance ... "You services are being suspended pending termination of your membership with xxxx xxxx Credit Union in accorance withour Member Expulsion Policy."

I'm not sure what "services" are being suspended ... as we no longer do any business with them. And, while it means less than nothing to ME that they sent us this nasty letter ... it's REALLY upset my husband. I think for him it's just the point that they would do this AFTER they illegally repossessed our vehicle. He has an anxiety disorder ... and this whole thing is really starting to wear on him. He's now panicking that we're running up legal fees that will be on our back if we don't win this thing.

In any case, when I go sign our paperwork after work today, I'm going to give Timothy a copy of the letter. It doesn't matter ... I'm sure they have every right to terminate our membership. It just seems odd that we would get this letter FIVE years after filing for bankruptcy ... but only three WEEKS after the whole reposession fiasco. Oh well ... back to the lawyer I go.

[FeelingHopeless]

Alright guys ... the wheels of justice move slowly ... but I think I just heard them squeak. Timothy called ... he said that we need to come down and read the sanction they're going to file ... and sign off on them that everything is correct and truthful. I don't think my husband and I will have time to go in together ... but we're basically just reading and signing anyway. He can always run over there at lunch.

Timothy said after they file, the hearing will be three to four weeks out. Oh, and we're not supposed to sell the van ... it may be used as evidence. How messed up is THAT? haha I told him it was just sitting there ... and it wasn't costing me anything to keep it for another month.

Anyhow ... just wanted to keep you guys posted. I'm going to try to go in tomorrow to read the paperwork ... and I'll come here and post what it says. Eeep!

[JRScott]

Good Luck in all this

I stumbled upon this today. I hope you get the other car paid for too. Your not just sticking up for yourself but for all the little guys out there that might suffer as well.

Keep your chin up

[FeelingHopeless]

LOL ... It's a really odd situation for me. By nature, I'm really not a shark. And the thing is ... I've always tried to believe in karma and do what's right. And I was ready to just let them HAVE the damned minivan. If I was "meant" (in some cosmic way) to pay them back for the bankruptcy, then I was going to let it go. More than that ... I just wanted everything to be over. I was so PROUD that we paid off our chapter 13 plan ... and then for it to all blow up like that?

But after we talked with a CEO of another credit union, I had a change of heart. I want to believe the best about people ... but this really was WRONG. And for some odd reason ... what's worse to me ... is that the CU (and that awful representative) have no idea how HORRIBLE that whole situation was for us. We had copies of all three credit reports ... and were going to start building it back up. We'd planned on taking out a secured credit card ... you know, just go slowly to do everything RIGHT this time. And then ... within 12 hours, we've got a $16,000 loan at 11.6% because I literally had NO way of getting to work.

I hate feeling like I'm taking advantage of the situation ... like ... I don't want anyone to think I've got the attitude, "What can I get out of this?" At the very least, I need my legal bills paid ... and I do wish they'd have to pay SOMETHING so they wouldn't do this to anyone else.

I really can't believe it happened ... because I read online and couldn't find anything like this anywhere. Even my lawyer wanted proof because it seemed so outrageous.

[HenriettaHen]

Can you follow this case on Pacer? That would be JUST TOO MUCH FUN. Heeee!

[HenriettaHen]

What a GREAT story!

But even though you aren't really a shark, do you think you could play one on TV for a short while? Honey, you DESERVE to be paid for this.

If anybody deserves it, it's you.

CPO, get over here! Talk some sense into this gal!